hybrids replace woods or irons ?

[DG_1234]

Yesterday's "mixing hybrids" thread included several comments about the hybrids replacing long irons. I know 20 years ago the original hybrid (TM rescue) was all about replacing 3 and 4 irons.
But over the years, as fairway wood shafts have become longer, and fairway wood heads larger, I think for some players hybrids are now a replacement for fairway woods as much or more so as a replacement for irons. I have not read any advertising for Callaway's new 'Super Hybrid", but my guess is that it's being promoted as a long distance club.
So maybe going forward more players will be looking at hybrids as a viable option to replace fairway woods ?
For my own game I love the modern fairway metals for distance; their long , lightweight shafts are great for playing a 14* to 20* fairway wood off the tee boxes. But for playing long shots off the ground I think the large head long shafted fairways are not as accurate as a heavier, shorter shafted 16* to 20* hybrid club. Distance-wise I think even higher lofted 22* to 23* hybrids carry about as far as old school 5-woods do.

 

[mpeterson]

Callaway, I know, releases their hybrids along with the iron sets. With the exception of the Super Hybrid, which is more of a fairway replacement. So I think it could be either depending on the design of the club as you said.

I think I'm in a similar boat to you. I carry a 15 degree fairway, then drop to hybrids (3h and sometimes 4h). But I've seen some success with playing a smaller headed "players" fairway in the 5W spot. The one place I've seen fairways be uniformly better is for slower swingers. My dad gets a LOT more of of a higher lofted fairway than a hybrid in the same ballpark with loft. And I think that would hold even if you adjusted for shaft length, etc. Just gets the ball higher.

 

[millsan1]

My 3H would replace my 5W, should I decide to game it.

4-6H replace 4-6I in my case

 

[DG_1234]

Callaway, I know, releases their hybrids along with the iron sets. With the exception of the Super Hybrid, which is more of a fairway replacement. So I think it could be either depending on the design of the club as you said.

I think I'm in a similar boat to you. I carry a 15 degree fairway, then drop to hybrids (3h and sometimes 4h). But I've seen some success with playing a smaller headed "players" fairway in the 5W spot. The one place I've seen fairways be uniformly better is for slower swingers. My dad gets a LOT more of of a higher lofted fairway than a hybrid in the same ballpark with loft. And I think that would hold even if you adjusted for shaft length, etc. Just gets the ball higher.

Absolutely the larger head , longer (and usually lighter) shaft of a fairway wood will produce higher trajectory shots than a hybrid of the same loft. However those same factors (head size-shaft length) I think make the modern fairway woods less accurate than hybrids (when played from the ground).
My observation is that most amateurs love playing driver off of the tee and rarely if ever want to play their fairway wood from the tee.box So in this case, maybe the shorter-heavier-smaller headed hybrids are a better fit for playing shots from the ground ?
Are your dad's fairway wood shots accurate ?

 

[mpeterson]

Absolutely the larger head , longer (and usually lighter) shaft of a fairway wood will produce higher trajectory shots than a hybrid of the same loft. However those same factors (head size-shaft length) I think make the modern fairway woods less accurate than hybrids (when played from the ground).
My observation is that most amateurs love playing driver off of the tee and rarely if ever want to play their fairway wood from the tee.box So in this case, maybe the shorter-heavier-smaller headed hybrids are a better fit for playing shots from the ground ?
Are your dad's fairway wood shots accurate ?

He hits his fairways and hybrids about the same in terms of accuracy, but sometimes his ballflight is on the slow side with something like a 3h vs a 5w.

I've always heard angle of attack plays a big role in this preference as well. Shallower and people tend to have more success with fairways, steep and they tend to prefer hybrids.

 

[Templet0n]

The simple answer is it can be yes to both. They can replace woods or irons. It just depends on how you space your bag. I have fit many people that hit hybrids better and further than woods.

 

[Danimal]

The simple answer is it can be yes to both. They can replace woods or irons. It just depends on how you space your bag. I have fit many people that hit hybrids better and further than woods.

Agree with this 100%. I have a 16/ 19 /23 degree Hybrids. Replacing 3W/5W/4I. Can’t hit a FW to save my life.

 

[DG_1234]

He hits his fairways and hybrids about the same in terms of accuracy, but sometimes his ballflight is on the slow side with something like a 3h vs a 5w.

I've always heard angle of attack plays a big role in this preference as well. Shallower and people tend to have more success with fairways, steep and they tend to prefer hybrids.

Well, if his accuracy is the same then I think playing fairway woods makes good sense.
Off the par 4 tee boxes I am good with a 3 wood or 5 wood, about 210 to 235 carry on flat terrain at sea level, but my dispersion range is probably 20-25 yards. And on the rare occasion I want to play a fairway wood off the ground, such a s second shot towards a par 5 green where the ball needs to be fit in a 25 yard space between bunkers on either side of the fairway, I am not accurate enough to consistently fit the ball within that narrow area.
So, my thinking is to go back to trying some low lofted hybrids and see if I am more pin point accurate with them than I am the 3 and 5 fairway woods.
Off the tee boxes I know I will miss playing fairway woods, and I don't believe hybrids are as good off tee boxes as fairway woods. So for the shorter, more narrow landing area par 4 holes I may try playing some "bunt driver swings" and see what happens. Some of my friends who like playing driver most every tee box do use bunt driver swings on occasion and they have success with that strategy so , maybe I will be able to do the same thing.

 

[Smiter]

The “bunt” driver swing is something I’m going to work to perfect. Two out of six rounds playing with groups of THP'ers I’ve topped my opening tee shot. In fact both were the same tee box on the same course, 2 months apart. Both went into the same cattails.

A proper bunt might take away a lot of first tee anxieties.

 

[Art M]

i see more of my partners replacing long irons with hybrids and going to 3 wood then driver. Personally my 4iron/195+\- fits nicely before the 5 wood/190-215. Just can not seem to groove the hybrid

 

[rollin]

I use to bag a 3h ,4h and had removed my 5w. But that was short lived and now only carry a 4h while the 5w back in the bag. I was left with a gap either way but just a bit of a different one. But I had much more use for my 5w vs my 3h so back into my bag it went.

 

[JonMA1]

I'm at the point where I have to do something. The 5i and 4i are no longer getting the 10 yard gaps that fill up the distances between my 150yd 6i, and 180yd 5w - both of which I can still hit well ("well" being relative). Good contact with the 5 and 4 are becoming more difficult.

The 4i is definitely out of the bag. The 5i may remain for punch shots. I currently have an older Adams 4h that provides more consistent ball striking - even if it doesn't always provide the 170 yards I'm looking for. I also bought a new TourEdge 3h earlier in the year, but gave it away because I didn't hit it well.

As is always the case, the biggest issue is a poor swing. Combine that with slower swing speeds, and a decent strike with a 4i requires a ridiculously small margin of error. Gone are the days of touching the 180's with the occasional, center-face strike that I enjoyed just a few years ago.

I'm trying to set myself up for what lies ahead. It's possible my mechanics might improve... slightly... but I have to plan on swing speed inevitably decreasing. What comes with that is a re-adjustment of ego. For me, there was nothing cooler in golf than hitting a long iron far and straight. But if I'm going to get any enjoyment out of this game, I have to quit beating my head against the wall trying to make something work when the odds are against it. The "stock" distances for my clubs are going to have to come down when I pull a club.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic. Back to the hybrids replacing long irons... I'm on somewhat of a budget. The TourEdge 3h mentioned above indicated I can't just pick a club and learn how to use it. I tried it out and it felt good off the mat with the simulator, but not so much on the course. So I'm thinking go to the local shop in the spring and try a couple used hybrids out on the grass range. I think some manufacturers have a try-before-you-buy system set up. Maybe I'll look into that as well.

Any discussion on how to fill those long iron gaps would be appreciated.

 

[DG_1234]

As is always the case, the biggest issue is a poor swing.

I suggest lessons from a competent local PGA instructor, combined with practice.

 

[ULEWZ]

I bought a 3i and a 4i, and do not hit them well. I have replaced them as well as the 5i with a 3w, 4h, and 5h. I can hit that 3w off the deck with little problem. The 3i and 4i Rogues need to go on ebay for somebody else to have fun with.

 

[DataDude]

I really like having one of each between my driver and 4 iron. A fairway wood that I can hit off the box or off the fairway between 15* and 18* and a hybrid between that and 20* that I can hit long out of the rough or punch out of woods with. I think as utility irons get better I will sub out a utility for my 4 and 5 iron. I use my 4 iron off the tee more and my 5 iron off the fairway more so I could easily see a utility doing both jobs.

 

[JonMA1]

I suggest lessons from a competent local PGA instructor, combined with practice.

I wish that's what it would take to improve. Great advice for most folks who struggle, imo.

I bought a 3i and a 4i, and do not hit them well. I have replaced them as well as the 5i with a 3w, 4h, and 5h. I can hit that 3w off the deck with little problem. The 3i and 4i Rogues need to go on ebay for somebody else to have fun with.

I have an old Hogan 3i. I will often practice taking slow swings with that club to work specifically with weight shift, swing path and getting my hands in a good impact position. My logic being that you have to be doing some things correctly to get any kind of decent ball flight. There are times - even recently - when I can take full swings with that club and get very good results. That said, if someone offered me $100 to hit a green from 170 yards, that is certainly not the club I'd use.

Like you, I feel pretty confident with a FW from a good lie. I can also grip down on that club, shorten up the swing and get some in-between distances. But I think a hybrid is a better choice for those distances.

 

[DG_1234]

I wish that's what it would take to improve. Great advice for most folks who struggle, imo.

Why won't lessons/practice work well for you ?

 

[Bryndom]

I can never figure out the top of my bag, tbh. Constantly mixing it up because I can’t hit fairway woods well (or long) at all...

my current setup is stupid hybrid heavy for that reason but fills my gaps ok:

Callaway Epic Flash 3h - 200-215 yards
Ping G410 17 degree - 190 - 200 yards
Ping G410 19 degree - 180-190 yards
Ping G410 22 degree - 170-180 yards

Then I segue into irons

6iron - 170 yards
7i - 160 yards

and so on....

just can’t hit that darn fairway woods on anything but off the tee so there’s a lot less value there for me

 

[DG_1234]

just can’t hit that darn fairway woods on anything but off the tee so there’s a lot less value there for me

3 wood off the tee box is a valuable asset to shooting low scores.
I agree with you that today's fairway woods are not ideal from ground lies. The fairway wood heads have become so large, and their shafts so long, that they are most suitable as tee box clubs.

 

[WMac19]

I dropped 3 & 4 iron years ago for a 7W and then added a wedge.

So now when I mix and match, I'm essentially replacing FW with a hybrid and no longer view them as iron replacements.

 

[JonMA1]

Why won't lessons/practice work well for you ?

Practice is essential for not going backwards - and that applies to every part of my game. As far as embedding any sort of improvement, I don't know... whatever gains are made on the range or indoors just can't seem to prevent me from falling back to bad habits on the course.

I've worked with six different PGA teaching professionals. With every one of them, I pushed myself very hard to grasp what was being taught. The only type of instruction that has helped has been for the short game. It helped significantly and took all of 5 minutes to grasp and apply.

As for full swing instruction, while some of the instructors may not have been good fits, what are the odds of them all being poor? At some point, I've had to strongly consider myself as the cause. Not saying I will never take lessons again, but my confidence is a little shot.

 

[Acesteve]

the answer is both depending on your swing angle of impact and shafts. it can actually change over time as your swing evolves. I put a FW metal in my bag about a year ago that I thought was the cats meow. Later put a 4h in my bag that I hooked off the course initially. Over last 6m, I notice that I nut both but the relative distance and potentially absolute distance I hit the 4h father. Why? Height is the answer. So instead of asking why, I simply added a 3h this past week and pulled the FW.

You could ask what FW wood loft equates to what hybrid loft but I don't think it is that simple. The way we swing and the fitment of shaft has a big impact

 

[Sox_Fan]

I use a 4 hybrid to replace a 4 iron. Hit them both the same distance (about 195) on full swings but enjoy the versatility of the hybrid for a variety shots that I can't hit near as well with a 4 iron.

 

[Acesteve]

I’m clearly longer with my 4h then I am my 4i. At least a club

 

[Desmond]

Whatever you need to replace, they replace - woods and/or irons. May depend on course conditions. Good luck.