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Incomplete Golf Instruction

pinseeker

pinseeker

"Non renunciare mai quello che desideri"
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or at least misplaced. To wit-Eric Cogorno has a drill ( 10 to 4) which basically helps to hit a draw by means of arm rotation/roll. (excellent drill by the way). In the drill he wants you to practice with an arm swing only i.e. no rotation. He does state that this is a drill only and that instruction regarding using it with rotation will follow. But...where is it? This is an old school drill that's been around forever. I just thought that he should have finished. Eric maintains that if you follow this you should be breaking 80 in due course, or if not, then maybe you need chipping/putting help. All of which are available on his web site and paid instruction. No problem with that. To his credit he has quite a volume of free videos on his YT channel which are pretty good and easy to understand and follow.
 
I don't understand the drill. Couldn't I just close my stance and hit a draw like Nicklaus outlined in Golf My Way? Next, the right arm wants to drop the club under the right armpit, and the left arm swing wants to put the bottom of the arc under the left armpit. How does he coordinate the two in an "all arms swing"?.
 
he is not concerned with the entire swing. He only wants you to get used to the feel of turning the ball left by arm/wrist roll. This is for those who are prone to hitting hard fades/slices. If you google "hitting a draw" it will state there are two ways. face angle/swing path relationship and rolling arm/wrist. IMO the former is better. When he is actually hitting balls, there is normal rotation. The plane station set up is also to get you swinging inside to out path. Again, it is a drill, not a swing method. Many of the guys on tour use quite a bit of rolling over.
 
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pinseeker said:
this video may help compare the two ways: https://golftribune.com/how-to-hit-a-draw/#:~:text=There are essentially two ways you can hit,then swing the club out to 2 o’clock.

I view this as a band-aid short cut to start hitting draws immediately.
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The video didn't play, but I read the article. The stance is consistent with Nicklaus's book or feet pointed right and swing along the feet line. Jim Venetos goes a step further and teaches to close the shoulders at address...really closed. All Venetos is really doing is pre-setting the shoulders to stay back at impact. I have tried it and must say draws are quite easy to hit. I think the Venetos method is best for folks who have an over-active right side dominant swing, which is most golfers.

As for the forearm roll, I see that as naturally occurring unless there's some limiting factor / leverage being applied to stop the rolling before impact, at least for me.
 
This video is still one of my favorites. I forgot to mention how he slightly opened or closed the club face with the grip at address. This is how I was taught long ago. The one problem is todays clubs tend to be harder to draw and fade unlike blades. I have a fairly tough time trying to hit fades with my G410's and at best get a marginal draw. If I pull out my Mizzy blades it's far easier, but of course the strike has to be more center.

 
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pinseeker said:
I just realized I forgot to include the video of Eric I was referring: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...09DB7D79B672BEB0400A09D&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

the video is a bit more radical than his usual ones.
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Now that I watched I totally agree this is a very good training station. I think he mentions rolling the left arm because many folks drag the handle and chicken wing. He's also correct in that I too have rarely seen a <80 player hit fades, slices. It's actually a lot of fun to try and hook a PW because the perceived exaggerated path he shows on the follow through really has to be as he teaches to hook a PW. I would think if one finds they start hooking that they could simply weaken their grip slightly to offset the path. Good video, this guy is really good.
 
Practically all golf instruction requires the student to fill in the gaps. Traditional instruction to the public is relayed in simple language expecting the audience to get it right. Those few who do get it right advance quickly while the rest constantly struggle. Why ???
My guess is that those who can do the right moves have difficulty grasping why others can't understand simple instruction. The other reason is that instructors really don't have an understanding of anatomy and how the body actually moves. An example is the shoulder and hip joints . Both are ball and socket joints which allow us to perform a movement by either internally rotating the joint and connecting limb or externally rotating joint and limb.
If the instructors don't know these things and / or communicate the correct joint movements nobody wins.
 
Proceed with Caution ⚠ Depends what you're trying to accomplish, how you're SetUp, and how much you turn.

  1. Good - If you're hitting a straight pull, and need to get your swing direction more right, then this station is a good idea.
  2. Good - If you lack flexibility, and rotating isn't for you, and you need to have a stall, then release, this station is a good idea.
  3. Bad - If you still haven't fixed an out of balance SetUp and are on your toes or heels, then this station is a bad idea.
  4. Bad - If you lack any sort of turn, and therefore come over the top because of that, then this station is a bad idea.
There's a number of situations on both sides; Good & Bad where this may or may not work for you.

Consult your coach, then try this video. 😉
 
The day after........... Eric Cogorno's "best drill"' putting away the "toys", the effects seem to linger in that I hold the feeling of turning over. It is subtle, but seemingly, automatic as I continue to curve a ball right to left. I don't worry about ball flight laws, although I am confident I am using them appropriately. I simply set up properly with alignment, face, path and stance, think about what I wish to accomplish and execute.
 
razaar said:
Practically all golf instruction requires the student to fill in the gaps. Traditional instruction to the public is relayed in simple language expecting the audience to get it right. Those few who do get it right advance quickly while the rest constantly struggle. Why ???
My guess is that those who can do the right moves have difficulty grasping why others can't understand simple instruction. The other reason is that instructors really don't have an understanding of anatomy and how the body actually moves. An example is the shoulder and hip joints . Both are ball and socket joints which allow us to perform a movement by either internally rotating the joint and connecting limb or externally rotating joint and limb.
If the instructors don't know these things and / or communicate the correct joint movements nobody wins.
[/QUOTE

Yep, brings to mind one of my memes..."You have got to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff, and there is a LOT of chaff".
Click to expand...
 
pinseeker said:
The day after........... Eric Cogorno's "best drill"' putting away the "toys", the effects seem to linger in that I hold the feeling of turning over. It is subtle, but seemingly, automatic as I continue to curve a ball right to left. I don't worry about ball flight laws, although I am confident I am using them appropriately. I simply set up properly with alignment, face, path and stance, think about what I wish to accomplish and execute.
Click to expand...
It's a great visual aid that is easily retained.
 
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