Interesting article on the RTJ Golf Trail

[Parrot]

Too Big to Trail — Lying Four

Imagine building 26 golf courses at the height of the golf development bubble, with nine figures in public pension money — in an effort that now loses money year after year. Welcome to the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail.

www.lyingfour.com

 

[Carolina Dundee]

A lot of info in there I was not aware of.

Thanks for the post @Parrot

 

[Just_Hacking]

Interesting read. Most of that info I was not aware of.

 

[mikeg_74]

That was interesting. I wonder what those real numbers look like.

 

[GraniteRoost]

Very interesting - great read. Thanks for posting!

 

[WICHITAREJECT]

Golf isn't a great investment!

 

[Bethpage Hack]

Sounds like a Hoffa deal gone wrong, but in the public sector.

 

[fuffle master]

Very fascinating read.

It is amazing how many public pension plans are underfunded and the taxpayer pays the burden. Here in PA we have something called PSERS (Teachers pension plan). It's so underfunded that the school districts are forced to just keep increasing the school tax while making cuts in programs. All the tax payor knows is their taxes keep going up leading to not many happy people.

There should be some type of penalty, to those that started a plan that becomes such a burden on the people of the area.

 

[Sox_Fan]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting read.

 

[Bernoulli]

Thanks for the link. That was an interesting article to read. I didn't know anything about the Trail before reading the article. The article is quite informative.

 

[Bethpage Hack]

Very fascinating read.

It is amazing how many public pension plans are underfunded and the taxpayer pays the burden. Here in PA we have something called PSERS (Teachers pension plan). It's so underfunded that the school districts are forced to just keep increasing the school tax while making cuts in programs. All the tax payor knows is their taxes keep going up leading to not many happy people.

There should be some type of penalty, to those that started a plan that becomes such a burden on the people of the area.

The problem with public pension plans occur when politicians put through legislation that the state govt can access the pension fund for state "public investments", then the systems become underfunded and a burdon. If you cross reference most underfunded state pension programs the state govt has access to them. Ones like the Teacher and Police in NY have kept the politicians out of it, have been able to keep the money in traditional investments and 5 years in a row the school districts had to pay less into the system since the market is up and system is at all time highs.

 

[B81Smith]

Great article. Thanks a bunch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snickerdog]

That was quite interesting. So much behind the scenes we never know about.

 

[MNMarc]

Thanks for the link! I’ve always wanted to take a golf trip down there.

 

[GolfTravelDude]

Excellent read. Thanks for sharing.

 

[BigDill]

Thanks for the post, it was a good lunchtime read. Very interesting. I just wish they would explain more why selling off some of the courses would not make sense, even though based on the article's overall point of view, it would seem inevitable.

 

[DataDude]

Thanks for the post, it was a good lunchtime read. Very interesting. I just wish they would explain more why selling off some of the courses would not make sense, even though based on the article's overall point of view, it would seem inevitable.

They would get nothing for some of them. The courses in Muscle Shoals are always wide open. Muscle Shoals is a tiny small town right in the middle of a triangle made by Birmingham, Memphis, and Nashville. It's too far from any of them for day trips and it's not nice enough for a weekend, but it has 2 state of the art super expensive golf courses.

 

[BriMac]

I had the opportunity to play the Grand National courses last year with the THP Taylormade event. All 3 courses (2 full regulation courses, + an 18 hole par 3 course) were in very good shape.

There was a ton of rain on the Saturday afternoon. So much rain, but the course handled it as best it could. I was surprised the courses remained open for us hackers, but perhaps they couldn't afford to close...

I definitely would recommend courses and would like to play them again some day.

 

[BigDill]

They would get nothing for some of them. The courses in Muscle Shoals are always wide open. Muscle Shoals is a tiny small town right in the middle of a triangle made by Birmingham, Memphis, and Nashville. It's too far from any of them for day trips and it's not nice enough for a weekend, but it has 2 state of the art super expensive golf courses.

I was thinking more along the lines of selling it for redevelopment. I am not a fan of losing golf courses, but it seems silly to me to continue to pour money into operating the lowest performing courses at a loss.

 

[sigm22]

Thanks for the link! I’ve always wanted to take a golf trip down there.

No idea what condition the courses are in today but I recall a 5-day getaway to RTJ back in the early 2000's and it was phenomenal. We hit up several locations and each site was in great shape and had it's own character(nothing repetitive). To this day, one of the best golf trips I have been a part of. Not super cheap but not overly expensive either. I think once we factored in what we paid to play an additional 18 holes per course per day, it actually came out to be a pretty attractive deal.

 

[Raiderboost]

That was a good read. I know a few guys that have made trips there to play them as a group. I hope to be able to do that sometime in the future.

 

[Nerdy]

Thanks for the link! some interesting info there. I've played a few courses on the trail.

 

[Parrot]

I was thinking more along the lines of selling it for redevelopment. I am not a fan of losing golf courses, but it seems silly to me to continue to pour money into operating the lowest performing courses at a loss.

There are multiple locations with 2 courses. I could see spinning one course off for development in particular areas to try and save the others. But, like you, I hate losing golf courses. So, is losing a couple of courses worth it to potentially save the rest?

 

[BigDill]

There are multiple locations with 2 courses. I could see spinning one course off for development in particular areas to try and save the others. But, like you, I hate losing golf courses. So, is losing a couple of courses worth it to potentially save the rest?

Perhaps I am being super cynical, but it just threw me for a loop for the article to suggest that selling off a few courses would devalue the entire RTJ Golf Trail concept, as if it were a row of dominoes. If the pension is losing money every year, without a solid turn around plan, then it would seem to me that the inevitable bankruptcy trustee would sell off parcels. Better off doing just that in a private sale.

 

[McLovin]

interesting article. no real facts about the financial health, though, so not sure what exactly is to be concluded here.

I do find it interesting that a course like grand national in Opelika just outside auburn is developing new residential homes on property and selling them for a hefty price tag (relative to other residential property in the city). so maybe they're trying to diversify their investment on property as well.

I also wonder how much of the loss (if there is a loss) is a result of operations, and how much is a result of pilfering the coffers to cover other liabilities. this is just speculation, like much of the article presents.

 

[BigDill]

interesting article. no real facts about the financial health, though, so not sure what exactly is to be concluded here.

I do find it interesting that a course like grand national in Opelika just outside auburn is developing new residential homes on property and selling them for a hefty price tag (relative to other residential property in the city). so maybe they're trying to diversify their investment on property as well.

I also wonder how much of the loss (if there is a loss) is a result of operations, and how much is a result of pilfering the coffers to cover other liabilities. this is just speculation, like much of the article presents.

That is true, and I thought it was telling that no one contacted for the story, according to the author, was forthcoming with any financial details. I find it hard to imagine that it is a financial success if no one is willing to take credit for it being so. My guess is that there is a year over year operating cost deficiency which they are filling with land valuation appreciation and "other income" stemming from state contributions (per the article).

 

[McLovin]

I find it hard to imagine that it is a financial success if no one is willing to take credit for it being so.

or maybe when john smith from "lying four" calls, the person on the other end of the phone says "never heard of you" then hangs up. i'm not saying one way or the other whether the trail is healthy, i'm just saying there is nothing of substance in this article.