Is a convex shape shaft strike on the ball probable?

KZG Golf

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I need an example of a field where the lead leg remains flexed throughout the movement.

Also, why is a convex shaft at impact better than a released shaft?

To be perfectly open with you, this position, with a driver, looks like it will create a huge amount of spin and very high flights. Shorter driver.
View attachment 8944535

This position looks like it will launch the ball with less spin
View attachment 8944534

As I have thought about this convex shaft idea, it's getting worse and worse. I cannot think of a single ballistic movement where this concept applies.
That is ok with me. You may be right. I shall wait for my idea to be tested. Thanks for reading my post.
 

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The idea of turning the right foot 20 degrees is to keep the right leg and side sturdy. That way you get to stretch the right side fully and have a compact backswing. You get the maximum angle between the shoulder and hip planes in a short compact backswing. Do read the details in my second post in this forum.
Oh I’ve read it but your explanation is nothing but ipse dixit. It will certainly keep a compact backswing (because you can’t turn) but that is exactly my point. You are also hurting your ability to get and meaningful depth in the backswing, which will lead to shaft/swing plane issues.
 

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That is ok with me. You may be right. I shall wait for my idea to be tested. Thanks for reading my post.
What field sports are you thinking that use a flex front leg?
 

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Oh I’ve read it but your explanation is nothing but ipse dixit. It will certainly keep a compact backswing (because you can’t turn) but that is exactly my point. You are also hurting your ability to get and meaningful depth in the backswing, which will lead to shaft/swing plane issues.
It depends on what is the objective of a backswing. If the objective is to generate and store energy in the backswing, then that energy is maximized when the shoulders cannot turn any further against the hips. When that happens, the angle between the shoulder plane and hip plane will be the maximum. For most golfers, that angle is about 45 degrees. But Hogan diagram shows the difference between the two planes is about 60 degrees (page 73 old addition, p 56 new edition). On p57 new edition, Hogan states that "this stretching of the muscles, that results from turning your shoulders as far as they go and retarding the hips. It is the difference in the amount of turn between the shoulders and hips that sets up this muscular tension."

I am following Hogan's prescription (and so does Mindy Blake). If the right hip and leg are held sturdy by turning the right foot 20 degrees, then the shoulders need to turn less around the body and result in a short backswing. But the shoulders have been turned as far as they can go, as per Hogan's objective.

The objective is not to have a long backswing but to turn the shoulders as far they can go.

I have played golf for 45 years with my right foot turned 20 degrees at address. At the top of the backswing, my left arm is at 10 o'clock. My shoulders are turned as far as they can go. The components are connected, the muscles of the right side and glutes are taut, and my backswing is compact. I refer to this as the CTC top of the backswing.

I have as much energy in the backswing as I possibly can. My shoulders can't turn any further and I have met Hogan's objective. But my method did it in a more efficient was, as did Blake. I hope that I have explained my self well enough.

Please read my second post (2. Generating energy for a probable ‘convex’ strike on the ball). It deals with the backswing. Very few view it. But I place a lot of emphasis on the backswing. If you don't generate enough energy, there will be less available to convert it into power for the downswing.
 

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Go watch hammer throw and shot put. Here are two screen grabs.
Look at the delivery process. Look at the last icon. What's the left leg doing?

1590070119681.png
 

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Go watch hammer throw and shot put. Here are two screen grabs.
Flex during the process, not at the moment of launch.

Again, please find an example of a field sport where the front leg is flexed at impact.
 
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Look at the delivery process. Look at the last icon. What's the left leg doing?

View attachment 8944565
I think you need to know that I merely used the final swing of the hammer throw and shot put as a model for a golf swing.

You ask whether the left leg is flexed. My grab images show the flexed left leg of both athletes in the hammer throw and shot. So the sequence that you have sent me.

We need to distinguish the two sports mentioned. Field sports involved more than one rotational movement. I said that the final swing of both sports provides a good model to illustrate the power of the rotary movement of the lower body is a good model as a power source for a golf swing.

Incidentally, the spin (rotary) technique of the shot put outperforms the slide technique by 20 percent. 17 of the 25 all-time puts used the spin (rotary) technique. The rotary technique is the dominant technique in shot put. That is a reason I think the rotary movement of the lower body, pivoting on the left heel, over a narrow stance to power the golf swing is more efficient than the 'slide and turn' movement over a wide Hogan stance.
 

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I think you need to know that I merely used the final swing of the hammer throw and shot put as a model for a golf swing.

You ask whether the left leg is flexed. My grab images show the flexed left leg of both athletes in the hammer throw and shot. So the sequence that you have sent me.

We need to distinguish the two sports mentioned. Field sports involved more than one rotational movement. I said that the final swing of both sports provides a good model to illustrate the power of the rotary movement of the lower body is a good model as a power source for a golf swing.

Incidentally, the spin (rotary) technique of the shot put outperforms the slide technique by 20 percent. 17 of the 25 all-time puts used the spin (rotary) technique. The rotary technique is the dominant technique in shot put. That is a reason I think the rotary movement of the lower body, pivoting on the left heel, over a narrow stance to power the golf swing is more efficient than the 'slide and turn' movement over a wide Hogan stance.
My reason for posting is that your screen grabs are pre-release on the shot putter and on the hammer throw. If you want to compare, you should use images from the release point where as much energy as possible is being imparted into the shot and the hammer to make it even. By picking the point before release, you are selecting images that support your theory, not comparing apples to apples.

These would be better images to show. Hammer throw especially has a real good corollary to golf swing.

Shot Putt. Notice the left leg.

1590073328263.png1590073371310.png1590073397957.png

Hammer throw. Notice left leg
1590073473984.png1590073505574.png
 

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I think you need to know that I merely used the final swing of the hammer throw and shot put as a model for a golf swing.

You ask whether the left leg is flexed. My grab images show the flexed left leg of both athletes in the hammer throw and shot. So the sequence that you have sent me.

We need to distinguish the two sports mentioned. Field sports involved more than one rotational movement. I said that the final swing of both sports provides a good model to illustrate the power of the rotary movement of the lower body is a good model as a power source for a golf swing.

Incidentally, the spin (rotary) technique of the shot put outperforms the slide technique by 20 percent. 17 of the 25 all-time puts used the spin (rotary) technique. The rotary technique is the dominant technique in shot put. That is a reason I think the rotary movement of the lower body, pivoting on the left heel, over a narrow stance to power the golf swing is more efficient than the 'slide and turn' movement over a wide Hogan stance.
My screen grab of the hammer throw is that of Nick Miller 2016 Olympian ()
 

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My screen grab of the hammer throw is that of Nick Miller 2016 Olympian ()
You see that your screen grab is from well before launch though, right? You see that? You see how he is rotating with bent knees and at the moment of launch straightens his left leg.

Go watch hammer throw and shot put. Here are two screen grabs.
Hammer Throw Final Swing.png
hammer throw.png

The same thing happens in a golf swing.

I think you need to rethink your concept, or at least the wording, because it is both poorly described and not fully thought out.
 

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Just thought I'd mention the following (also from Dave Tutelmans website) - but it can get extremely technical.

(4) Changing shaft flex does not increase your clubhead speed

 
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I’m skimming. Are people saying the convex shaft is legit and not a camera effect? If so, I’m having a hard time understanding that as the head weighs more and has more drag than a shaft.
 

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I’m skimming. Are people saying the convex shaft is legit and not a camera effect? If so, I’m having a hard time understanding that as the head weighs more and has more drag than a shaft.
I tried to read through the thread ... I have no idea what the point is.
 

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I tried to read through the thread ... I have no idea what the point is.
Convex and concave shafts are legit in the downswing and not just a shutter effect as shown in the this super slow motion with a phantom camera. If you look carefully , during transition and up to P5.5 the clubshaft is convex (ie . shaft near clubhead lagging behind shaft at grip end), and then approaching impact it's in slight forward bend (concave- shaft near clubhead ahead of the shaft section near grip end). Then at impact it quickly goes back into convex bend , then straightens again.


The OP has a notion that his swing concept will produce a swing with convex bend by impact and that clubhead speed would be superior than one that has concave bend.
 
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You see that your screen grab is from well before launch though, right? You see that? You see how he is rotating with bent knees and at the moment of launch straightens his left leg.



View attachment 8944591

The same thing happens in a golf swing.

I think you need to rethink your concept, or at least the wording, because it is both poorly described and not fully thought out.
The grab is at the moment of release. The leg was flexed at release and it still flexed after release. The rotational movement is pivoted on the left heel.
I am fine with the concept. I just know that the rotary movement of the lower body over a narrow stance is more powerful than a 'slide and turn' movement over a wide stance. I am comfortable with that concept. Time will tell.
Thank you all the same for reading my posts and replies. I always value a conscientious commentator.
 

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Convex and concave shafts are legit in the downswing and not just a shutter effect as shown in the this super slow motion with a phantom camera. If you look carefully , during transition and up to P5.5 the clubshaft is convex (ie . shaft near clubhead lagging behind shaft at grip end), and then approaching impact it's in slight forward bend (concave- shaft near clubhead ahead of the shaft section near grip end). Then at impact it quickly goes back into convex bend , then straightens again.


The OP has a notion that his swing concept will produce a swing with convex bend by impact and that clubhead speed would be superior than one that has concave bend.
I think the shaft needs to be convex from 9 o'clock and stay in that shape at impact. It will produce a more convex strike force on the ball. It is obvious that a concave bend is a weak bend. You don't ever see a concave bend pole propelling a vaulter. Or a concave bend fishing rod casting a line and sinker.
The issue we need to consider is what are the factors causing the convex shaft at 9 o'clock to transitioning to straight and then to concave before impacting.
I have identified them. And I have proposed a system, embodied in The Reflex Convex Swing, a conceptual hypothesis waiting to be tested.
I have played with The Reflex Swing for 45 years. It was only over the last two years that I have postulated the core principles of the swing can be used by those with swing speeds 100+ mph to strike the ball with a convex strike. This insight occurred to me while I was watching all those youtube and wondered why all of them strike the ball with a concave shaft. Intuitively, I know that the convex shape is the stronger shape. Hence I changed the name of the swing to The Reflex Convex Swing.
 

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I’m skimming. Are people saying the convex shaft is legit and not a camera effect? If so, I’m having a hard time understanding that as the head weighs more and has more drag than a shaft.
If you understand the sling effect, then you appreciate why the head speed is much higher than the body speed and the arm speed.
 

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Why is convex intuitively better? The pole in pole vaulting propels the vaulted up by returning to straight, not by staying convex. The energy is stored as it bends and is released into the vaulted as it returns to straight.

For a graphical example. At the highest level of max energy transfer to the vaulted ( I.e. max height ) the pole is back to straight.

pole original jpeg.jpg

The golf shaft does the same thing at a much smaller scale.
 
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Why is convex intuitively better? The pole in pole vaulting propels the vaulted up by returning to straight, not by staying convex. The energy is stored as it bends and is released into the vaulted as it returns to straight.

The golf shaft does the same thing at a much smaller scale.
The fishing rod is the nearest thing to a golf shaft. Both have a progressive tapering shape. So me reference to a fishing rod is apt.

If the concave shape is stronger, the tapered end of the fishing rod should assume that shape when it casts the line and sinker. A wipe cracks with a convex bend snap.

Sure, the pole returns to straight after the convex bend pole releases its stored energy to propel the vaulter over the bar. The energy is built up by the vaulter running down the runway to build up kinetic energy that is converted to the potential energy stored in the convex pole. Then the potential energy is released and converted to kinetic energy to propel the athlete over the bar. I hope this makes sense.

But I do know that you are better qualified than I in this area. All I can rely on is a convex shape of a fishing rod.

This link to the action of a fishing rod may interest you: https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/guides/rodselection.html or https://www.theonlinefisherman.com/fishing-rods
The action is only about a convex bend to cast a line and sinker.
 

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