"Jacked" Lofts in 2020

[OITW]

What amazes me about lofting, is how there can be a genuinely 'stock' loft belief, while all swings are different. Take for example my swing and @OITW. I hit the ball interplanetary, and he hits it fairly low. Why in the world would we play identical lofts expecting the same result?

part of this age of fitting, lofts should be super personal. While I am the anomaly, I don't see anyone worried about the lofts of my irons (which are absolutely strong to stock) when I hit the ball higher than most people I play with.

Thanks, I think?

You and I are completely different golfers from a lot of the fitting metrics, I think there are few things that should be the same ?‍

 

[TRyan]

Hot take on the gaps into wedges:

The real issue is people don’t want to learn how to hit different shots and distances from full to partial swings with their PW.

Don’t @ me. Creativity is dead.

This is a really interesting point... I admit I am not super creative with my wedges, and partial shots make me a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Bernoulli]

Don't look at your clubs like this is an 8 iron or this is a 9 iron. Look at them like this is my 150 club and this is my 137 club.

I like this approach. For certain, I don't know the lofts but I know, generally, how far I can hit each club.

 

[Jman]

This is a really interesting point... I admit I am not super creative with my wedges, and partial shots make me a bit uncomfortable.

You’re not alone. I think that’s the majority of golfers.

It’s also why in practice I often name the club my kids have to use from a certain distance and in that whole day. 5i day is a blast. I crush their souls.

 

[HackerFish]

Nope, that’s the main reason the lofts have strengthened. Launch now is greater than “traditional” era loft designs, without decreased lofts they would launch too high and meet ballooning. Companies adjust the lofts to hit specific launch windows.

These irons have more ball speed, more launch, more forgiveness, and thus MUST have lower lofts.

This is always THE flaw in the loft hating argument, it’s ONE part of the flight equation, one, and not even the main one.

I'm just being a stickler here but when you look at the profiles of these advanced clubs, they either have a higher peak height or lower launch angle than a more traditional, older tech club. Its defying conservation of energy to get a faster ball speed but the same launch angle and peak height. Perhaps my terminology is wrong and we are talking about descent angle which I agree that the newer clubs are coming down just like a older one, just ten yards further.

 

[TRyan]

You’re not alone. I think that’s the majority of golfers.

It’s also why in practice I often name the club my kids have to use from a certain distance and in that whole day. 5i day is a blast. I crush their souls.

This is a really interesting idea. I should probably do a better job of trying different clubs from different yardages, to become more familiar with partial shots.

This has been a great thread for me, learned quite a few things

 

[obedt]

What amazes me about lofting, is how there can be a genuinely 'stock' loft belief, while all swings are different. Take for example my swing and @OITW. I hit the ball interplanetary, and he hits it fairly low. Why in the world would we play identical lofts expecting the same result?

part of this age of fitting, lofts should be super personal. While I am the anomaly, I don't see anyone worried about the lofts of my irons (which are absolutely strong to stock) when I hit the ball higher than most people I play with.

Love this post Canadan. I think part of the discussion is that most golfers just buy off the rack and don't necessarily go through loft adjustments. I'm one of them! But lofts are part of the fitting puzzle like you mention, so while we can discuss what shafts we need, discussing loft alterations to better fit us is a worthwhile convo too.

 

[fupresti]

It's not that hard people.

Demo a 7-iron. Compare the distance to your current 7 iron. Use the distance change and calculate rough estimates based on your current set.

Hit them on the course. Note your distances and adjust.

Done. Complaining about jacked lofts just tells a story that you dont understand anything about club design, but thats OK. The only thing that matters is what distance does this club travel. Who cares if the 6 iron you tested is as long as the 4 iron you used to play. If anything, new designs are making it easier to build a more robust set, allowing for an extra hybrid or wedge.

 

[Raiderboost]

To me this is very much like changes in technology for engines over the years. Manufacturers were able to get more power from the same liter engine. This is especially evident in trucks. Most trucks have more horsepower and towing capacity than they used to while still getting the same or better mileage. Some of the manufactures decided to make smaller engines and keep the power where it was to provide better fuel economy. At the end of the day its about getting what fits your wants or needs whether that a big powerful engine or smaller but capable engine.

If a person wants to stick with "traditional" lofts and lose some of the benefits of modern technology they are welcome to do so. As for me who struggles with woods and hybrids off the deck, I will take the jacked lofts and extra distance so long as I can hit them. I can always and probably will add a lower lofted wedge to fill a gap, especially if it means getting on the green in two on more par 5's.

 

[jdtox]

Does it really matter what the loft on the club is if you know the distance it goes? I say no and I am happy the loft isn't marked because when Hogan tried it was a disaster IMO

 

[DataDude]

Nope, that’s the main reason the lofts have strengthened. Launch now is greater than “traditional” era loft designs, without decreased lofts they would launch too high and meet ballooning. Companies adjust the lofts to hit specific launch windows.

These irons have more ball speed, more launch, more forgiveness, and thus MUST have lower lofts.

This is always THE flaw in the loft hating argument, it’s ONE part of the flight equation, one, and not even the main one.

I get the physics of it and I totally understand everything your saying. I think the eye-rolly part for people is that the argument against ballooning only matters if you want a club with a 7 on it to go farther than a club that used to have a 7 iron on it. The argument is against ballooning, but that is invalid because at any given distance with new technology I am going to be hitting the ball higher than I used to hit it. Since my new 7 iron creates more ball speed and it has been delofted to maintain old peak height I now hit it 150 instead of 140. Now from 140 I am hitting my new 8 iron and it's peak height of old has been maintained but the ball speed means it goes 140 instead of 130. Assuming my old 8 iron flew higher than my old 7 iron (it did) then at 140 yards I am hitting a higher shot into the green now than I used to so "ballooning" is guaranteed by the new dynamics.

The OEMS could have called the club that flies higher than the old 7 iron but goes the same distance a 7 iron or they could call the club that flies the same height but goes a farther distance a 7 iron. Both clubs are still going to be in the set so this is really a moot point about improvements in technology. I think we can easily surmise why they called the one that goes farther the 7 iron and that has a lot to do with selling clubs based on launch monitor data and chicks digging the long ball.

 

[milehighgolfer]

Less loft yet the same launch thanks to better tech. Same or better spin numbers. What's the problem with that? I couldn't tell you my lofts without looking them up but I know how far each goes. Isn't that what matters? People complaining about stronger lofts on the latest clubs are silly.
Those who argue that they leave themselves with a partial swing into the green:
1. I feel no pity for you because I don't have that "problem"
2. Put the work in to master the partial gap wedge. It's a lethal weapon.
3. Drop a FW, HY, long iron and add another wedge.

 

[Jman]

I get the physics of it and I totally understand everything your saying. I think the eye-rolly part for people is that the argument against ballooning only matters if you want a club with a 7 on it to go farther than a club that used to have a 7 iron on it. The argument is against ballooning, but that is invalid because at any given distance with new technology I am going to be hitting the ball higher than I used to hit it. Since my new 7 iron creates more ball speed and it has been delofted to maintain old peak height I now hit it 150 instead of 140. Now from 140 I am hitting my new 8 iron and it's peak height of old has been maintained but the ball speed means it goes 140 instead of 130. Assuming my old 8 iron flew higher than my old 7 iron (it did) then at 140 yards I am hitting a higher shot into the green now than I used to so "ballooning" is guaranteed by the new dynamics.

The OEMS could have called the club that flies higher than the old 7 iron but goes the same distance a 7 iron or they could call the club that flies the same height but goes a farther distance a 7 iron. Both clubs are still going to be in the set so this is really a moot point about improvements in technology. I think we can easily surmise why they called the one that goes farther the 7 iron and that has a lot to do with selling clubs based on launch monitor data and chicks digging the long ball.

No, if lofts weren’t adjusted most would lose much more than just back to “tradition”.

 

[Iceman!]

Don't care about lofts too much. If it gives me distance and stopping power I don't really care if it's a 7 iron or a 5 iron if they produce the same results.

 

[DataDude]

No, if lofts weren’t adjusted most would lose much more than just back to “tradition”.

We still have the old lofts in the bag though, they just have different numbers on them right?

 

[aljaklaw]

you get 7 clubs to go from 22° to 46°, let's say they start at 38.5" and go down from there. is that a 4-PW? 5-AW? 3-9? 6-AW2?

 

[jdtox]

As someone who played weaker lofts last golf season and realizing its not very fun. Give me the jacked lofts! I don't care anymore I want to have fun on the course

 

[JB]

I get the physics of it and I totally understand everything your saying. I think the eye-rolly part for people is that the argument against ballooning only matters if you want a club with a 7 on it to go farther than a club that used to have a 7 iron on it. The argument is against ballooning, but that is invalid because at any given distance with new technology I am going to be hitting the ball higher than I used to hit it. Since my new 7 iron creates more ball speed and it has been delofted to maintain old peak height I now hit it 150 instead of 140. Now from 140 I am hitting my new 8 iron and it's peak height of old has been maintained but the ball speed means it goes 140 instead of 130. Assuming my old 8 iron flew higher than my old 7 iron (it did) then at 140 yards I am hitting a higher shot into the green now than I used to so "ballooning" is guaranteed by the new dynamics.

The OEMS could have called the club that flies higher than the old 7 iron but goes the same distance a 7 iron or they could call the club that flies the same height but goes a farther distance a 7 iron. Both clubs are still going to be in the set so this is really a moot point about improvements in technology. I think we can easily surmise why they called the one that goes farther the 7 iron and that has a lot to do with selling clubs based on launch monitor data and chicks digging the long ball.

Just a quick note. Ballooning doesn't equal high ball flight. Ballooning is high ball flight causing the ball to drop straight. Usually an element of spin is in play here.

 

[Canadan]

you get 7 clubs to go from 22° to 46°, let's say they start at 38.5" and go down from there. is that a 4-PW? 5-AW? 3-9? 6-AW2?

Why does it have to start at 22? My 4 iron is 19 degrees but is loft generating so it fits in well behind my 18 degree utility or 17 degree hybrid.

 

[JB]

you get 7 clubs to go from 22° to 46°, let's say they start at 38.5" and go down from there. is that a 4-PW? 5-AW? 3-9? 6-AW2?

If loft was the only dynamic of distance this applies.
If I give you two 22 degree clubs with completely different designs, odds are you are not going to carry them the same distance.

 

[Tenputt]

To me, it’s a non-issue. I don’t really care what the loft is. I care only about knowing the carry distances for each club and good gapping, from my highest lofted wedge to my 5 iron, with the 5 iron needing to fly 200 yards.

 

[aljaklaw]

If loft was the only dynamic of distance this applies.
If I give you two 22 degree clubs with completely different designs, odds are you are not going to carry them the same distance.

the point is how does the number stamped on the bottom affect the playing characteristics?

 

[JB]

the point is how does the number stamped on the bottom affect the playing characteristics?

It doesn't. Its a number to create a set for familiarity. Why do we call a PW a Pitching Wedge when nobody uses it for pitching anymore?

 

[GraniteRoost]

 

[aljaklaw]

It doesn't. Its a number to create a set for familiarity. Why do we call a PW a Pitching Wedge when nobody uses it for pitching anymore?

so the numbers (or letters) don't mean anything on the course other than to quickly differentiate. so the number exists for marketing purposes - because distance sells (and will continue to do so), and the point of making clubs is to sell them ???

I like what Hogan did (Cleveland as well) with their stamping, it's too bad that hasn't really caught on