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Junior golfers playing Stableford, for money?

ForeOnFour

ForeOnFour

Leave no birdie behind
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I've got a question for the forum:

Me son who is 11 really enjoys golf and enjoys competing, not just in golf but sports in general. 3 weeks ago he asked if he could play in the Sunday morning Stableford with me. $7 entry fee, prize money determined by how many show up, generally the first place teams splits $40 or less.

I said sure, I'll ask. Got to the course and the usual groups had no problem with it, so he played. We go back the next week and he plays again, this time he gets randomly drawn and ends up on the second place team. He is over the moon and can't wait until next time.

Next time was yesterday. We show up, play our round, we each put our $7 in the pot and go out to hit on the range while the other groups finish up. Next thing I know one of the other players, who is the lead grounds keeper, walks up and hand me back my son's $7 and says he is not allowed to gamble, for fear that the owner would fire the him for allowing minors to "gamble"

My issue is I'm not convinced it's gambling but more an entry fee to win a small prize based on your skill and game that day. The USGA specifically has a rule about amateurs playing in small money games and we check all the boxes for following their rules.

I just don't understand taking away something from a junior golfer and souring him, to an extent, on golf. Before playing in the stableford it was sometimes a chore to drag him out of bed on Sunday morning. But for three weeks he was up before me and chomping at the bit to go. He has a handicap, that we pay a yearly fee into the mens club for him to join. He plays from the same tees that the full grown men do.

Am I over reacting because he's my own kid or do you think it really is wrong for him to play in our local stableford for money?

Thanks for reading and letting me know your thoughts.
 
ForeOnFour said:
I've got a question for the forum:

Me son who is 11 really enjoys golf and enjoys competing, not just in golf but sports in general. 3 weeks ago he asked if he could play in the Sunday morning Stableford with me. $7 entry fee, prize money determined by how many show up, generally the first place teams splits $40 or less.

I said sure, I'll ask. Got to the course and the usual groups had no problem with it, so he played. We go back the next week and he plays again, this time he gets randomly drawn and ends up on the second place team. He is over the moon and can't wait until next time.

Next time was yesterday. We show up, play our round, we each put our $7 in the pot and go out to hit on the range while the other groups finish up. Next thing I know one of the other players, who is the lead grounds keeper, walks up and hand me back my son's $7 and says he is not allowed to gamble, for fear that the owner would fire the him for allowing minors to "gamble"

My issue is I'm not convinced it's gambling but more an entry fee to win a small prize based on your skill and game that day. The USGA specifically has a rule about amateurs playing in small money games and we check all the boxes for following their rules.

I just don't understand taking away something from a junior golfer and souring him, to an extent, on golf. Before playing in the stableford it was sometimes a chore to drag him out of bed on Sunday morning. But for three weeks he was up before me and chomping at the bit to go. He has a handicap, that we pay a yearly fee into the mens club for him to join. He plays from the same tees that the full grown men do.

Am I over reacting because he's my own kid or do you think it really is wrong for him to play in our local stableford for money?

Thanks for reading and letting me know your thoughts.
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I don't think your overreacting at all. I think our league allows anyone to play, although everyone is adults, we would love to have kids join us as long as they can hold their own.

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk
 
Seems pretty clear that there are some in the group(s) that are uncomfortable with a child playing for money.

Is your child in it for the money or the game?
 
tucsoncacti said:
I don't think your overreacting at all. I think our league allows anyone to play, although everyone is adults, we would love to have kids join us as long as they can hold their own.

Sent from my S8 using Tapatalk
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He holds his own. He outdrives most of the senior guys but he lacks the focus to put together really solid 18 hole rounds. He's usually good for 9-11 holes, a few iffy holes and then a few where is just can't finish.

As an example, his course handicap is 29 and mine is 15, he scored 41 stabbed to my 30 yesterday so he can keep up.
 
aklawitter said:
Seems pretty clear that there are some in the group(s) that are uncomfortable with a child playing for money.

Is your child in it for the money or the game?
Click to expand...

I would say both. He loves golf but also likes competition. He said he'll still golf with the group even if he can't put in his money but he has more fun and enjoys the pressure of trying to see if he can win something other than bragging rights.
 
I was expecting your post to say they refused to pay him after he won, which I would have definitely disagreed with.

I don't think they should have allowed him to play from the get go because we shouldn't promote kids gambling. It does read like your son is attracted to the game because of the money. I personally think that's unfortunate, but that's just me, and part of the reason why I don't think it shouldn't have been allowed from the beginning.
 
I would call it a mini tournament.
We have a weekly game night at our course.
It is an entry fee, and you win prizes.
Some of the prizes happen to be cash.
All ages welcome.
My Son used to go with my Father-in-law a couple of years ago, when he was 11.
Most of the guys loved it.
A couple of the guys got mad when my Son hit his drive farther than they did.
Recently, Father-in-law has told his group about my Son hitting around 300 + yards .
Most are happy, but a couple just grumble about it.
My Son quit going with that group 3 summers ago, because of the complainers.
 
Is it a PGA pro thats sponsoring/running this event? I know they can get into some weird situations handing out money, especially to minors. If thats the case, you should probably respect their rules. If the folks are just uptight about it just to be richards, then I'd push back a substantial amount.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I was expecting your post to say they refused to pay him after he won, which I would have definitely disagreed with.

I don't think they should have allowed him to play from the get go because we shouldn't promote kids gambling. It does read like your son is attracted to the game because of the money. I personally think that's unfortunate, but that's just me, and part of the reason why I don't think it shouldn't have been allowed from the beginning.
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Sorry if it came across that way. He does enjoy that aspect of it but it certainly isn't what drew him to it and isn't the driving force behind his practicing 2-3 times a week in the back yard and playing when I do. He has a 4.0 GPA, is the starting PG on his school basketball team, multiple time all star in little league and generally just loves to compete and do his best. It's that competitive fire in him that I don't want to squash and like I posted above he said he will still play even if he can't win money, just because he likes to see if he can keep up with the big boys. He is very motivated to win at anything he does and when he can't he doesn't get mad he just works harder. It's hard to explain but I've watched him compete and when he's down he gets this look in his eyes that I would say is pure focus. I think that's why golf draws him in, is his need to focus, especially mentally, and he is slowly learning that he can't just focus when he's down he needs to focus from the first shot to the last putt.
 
Bucketsofjoy said:
Is it a PGA pro thats sponsoring/running this event? I know they can get into some weird situations handing out money, especially to minors. If thats the case, you should probably respect their rules. If the folks are just uptight about it just to be richards, then I'd push back a substantial amount.
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No it's very informal. Just a bunch of mens club members who play stableford 3 or 4 times a week for small amounts of money. No PGA pro is even associated with our club that I know of, it's small probably 40-50 members.

I plan on attending the next monthly board meeting to see if this was just one guy, who happens to work at the golf course, or if it's an actual rule.
 
ForeOnFour said:
No it's very informal. Just a bunch of mens club members who play stableford 3 or 4 times a week for small amounts of money. No PGA pro is even associated with our club that I know of, it's small probably 40-50 members.
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Probably just a case of whiners, then. Just pay $14 from yourself, and collect both yours and your son's winnings. Seems fair, and he's not the one gambling. Do with the winnings what you wish.
 
It could be any number of things, but I wouldn't be angry at a worker if he felt it was inappropriate. That's his opinion.

Could also be a couple guys who have said they didn't like it. That's also their opinion and there's nothing wrong with it.
 
Jackal said:
I would call it a mini tournament.
We have a weekly game night at our course.
It is an entry fee, and you win prizes.
Some of the prizes happen to be cash.
All ages welcome.
My Son used to go with my Father-in-law a couple of years ago, when he was 11.
Most of the guys loved it.
A couple of the guys got mad when my Son hit his drive farther than they did.
Recently, Father-in-law has told his group about my Son hitting around 300 + yards .
Most are happy, but a couple just grumble about it.
My Son quit going with that group 3 summers ago, because of the complainers.
Click to expand...

That sucks and I'm sorry for your kid. Some people just can't stand to be happy for others no matter the outcome.

The jealousy, grumpy think crossed my mind. I'm not sure though that this is the case this time as most others wondered why he couldn't play and genuinely acted miffed that he was told no. These guys know him by name, have invited him to play in their group, offer him tips and usually treat him like another member of the group with jokes and what not.
 
Interesting situation.

On the one hand I don't think it's a big deal and he should be allowed to play. On the other hand if he MUST be playing for money to keep his interest level in golf up I'd proceed with caution.

The beauty of golf is that you are always competing against the course as it is.
 
One more thing that I didn't mention as it seems like another issue it's self but is closely related.

We pay $20 a year for him to be a member of the mens club and get an official HC, when he first signed up it was $5 and went to $20 this year. Mine is $90 and his goes on the same form, there is a little line at the bottom of my form for juniors.

So we pay this money, he gets a HC, is a member yet he has been told no every time I ask if he can play in tournaments. I fail to see the point in having him join, if he's not allowed to enter the tournaments. He's a paying member with an official NCGA HC.
 
ArmyGolf said:
Interesting situation.

On the one hand I don't think it's a big deal and he should be allowed to play. On the other hand if he MUST be playing for money to keep his interest level in golf up I'd proceed with caution.

The beauty of golf is that you are always competing against the course as it is.
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I get what your saying, and part of me wonders if i should jist drop it as i dont want him to associate golf with winnijg money, but as I said above it's not his only reason for playing but he does enjoy the thrill in winning something, as I think most people do. He did say he will still play with the group for fun.

Regardless of age I think we all enjoy the thrill of entering a golf tournament or golf competition to win prizes.

He has been golfing for three years and this is only the last three weeks so I really don't believe it's about the money. He just enjoys sports in general.
 
We had this situation come up recently at the Country Club where I am a social member. If it is not a CC sponsored event with an official entry fee, they consider it "gambling" and it is not allowed on their property.

I personally couldn't care less, but apparently it can get them in legal trouble if it got out.
 
If he is a paying member and has a handicap I think he should be allowed in the tournaments. I understand why members would rather not have kids get involved in betting though, that can be a slippery slope. Most tournaments I've played in welcome players of all ages but don't allow people under 18 to get into the skins pool.
 
Tough call. Personally I think 11 is a little young for it. Certainly not judging by any means, especially since its not a large amount of money, and almost all of my rounds have a few bucks on it. In a few years I'd have no issue with it. I'd teach him to purely enjoy the game first for a few more years.
 
Canadan said:
It could be any number of things, but I wouldn't be angry at a worker if he felt it was inappropriate. That's his opinion.

Could also be a couple guys who have said they didn't like it. That's also their opinion and there's nothing wrong with it.
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I told him I'm not mad at him but I also don't agree with him. I told him I'll respect his decision for yesterday's game but I will be asking the mens club board and the owner of the course (he's a client of mine) if they feel the same way. If they all agree that they would rather not have him put in money then so be it.
 
We we're in a scramble a few years ago.
There was a girl from the high school team playing.
Their team won.
Someone said if she took money, she was exempt from amateur status.
She was scared and wouldn't take the $50.
The lady in the clubhouse went over and got some of the womens golf gloves and a dozen womens balls like the girl played.
She didn't charge full price either.
She let her have the $14 gloves for $9, and the $30 balls for $20.
She said "I'll trade you gifts and supplies, and no tax either!
This way you didn't accept money."

Real surprising.
If the girl had lost, the complainer would have sure took the girls money.
 
Personally I wouldn't want to play a money game with an eleven year old. If he wants competition take a look at jr programs and tournaments.
 
ForeOnFour said:
One more thing that I didn't mention as it seems like another issue it's self but is closely related.

We pay $20 a year for him to be a member of the mens club and get an official HC, when he first signed up it was $5 and went to $20 this year. Mine is $90 and his goes on the same form, there is a little line at the bottom of my form for juniors.

So we pay this money, he gets a HC, is a member yet he has been told no every time I ask if he can play in tournaments. I fail to see the point in having him join, if he's not allowed to enter the tournaments. He's a paying member with an official NCGA HC.
Click to expand...

If they took your money for him to be a member, took your money for him to have a handicap then they either need to let him play or give you your money back. Or show you the written rule/bylaw saying he can't play.
 
Scrap Iron said:
Personally I wouldn't want to play a money game with an eleven year old. If he wants competition take a look at jr programs and tournaments.
Click to expand...

We've looked into it and the closest one would be an 8 our round trip. There are one off, non consistent tournaments about 5 hours round trip away. Working 40+ hours a week and with the other sports he's involved in its hard to justify that much travel time versus a 20 min trip to our local course. But we haven't completely written it off yet and it may be something we do next summer when little league is over.

We have one 3 day event here in the summer. This year he got to play in the "big kids" group, mostly high schoolers and took first in driving distance, first in chipping and second in putting. With that said he isn't that good we just have a very small group of young golfers in the area and I think most of the HS kids do it for something to do not necessarily because they love golf.
 
Jackal said:
We we're in a scramble a few years ago.
There was a girl from the high school team playing.
Their team won.
Someone said if she took money, she was exempt from amateur status.
She was scared and wouldn't take the $50.
The lady in the clubhouse went over and got some of the womens golf gloves and a dozen womens balls like the girl played.
She didn't charge full price either.
She let her have the $14 gloves for $9, and the $30 balls for $20.
She said "I'll trade you gifts and supplies, and no tax either!
This way you didn't accept money."

Real surprising.
If the girl had lost, the complainer would have sure took the girls money.
Click to expand...

Reading this makes me sad.
 
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