Learning to Flight Shots?

[CobraX51]

This kind of goes with the thread of needing help and consistency with GIR but here it goes...

My GIR is simply poor. 28%. No other way to put it. Saturday I hit 6 GIR but still shot 82. Yesterday 2 GIR in 9 holes. It's a problem area for me and has been for quite sometime.

The guy I played with yesterday is much more advanced than me, he has been playing golf since he was young and won his employee club tournament 3 years in a row when he worked at a Private course several years ago. He had an appendectomy that has limited how much he can turn in the golf swing but he still gets it done. He shot +4 40 on the front 9 to my 45.

Thru 6 holes he had a 1 stroke lead on me. We get to the Par 3 and the pin is in the front at 148 yards. Right to left wind.

He hates rangefinders and feels that I rely on that way too much just to shoot an exact number. He simply reads the plaque at the tee box or from the fairway reads a sprinkler head yardage and/or yardage sticks. This plaque said 165 to the center.

He steps up with a hybrid and flights a shot dead straight over the flag, back of the green, but a putt for birdie, he told me it was either play a fade into the wind or play a straight shot, he took the easier option. I'm not that advanced to control ball flight but I understood what he meant. I play the wind and aim right of the green for my usual right to left flight but hit a thin pull into the greenside bunker.

That's when he asked me my thought process with that and this was the 3rd green I missed in 7 holes with a short iron/wedge in my hand. I gave my reason and he emphasized how much more of a difficult shot I'm doing by always taking full swings every time. We had a 4 club difference at this tee box but he's on the green.

He says if I want to keep hitting full shots 100% of the time go right ahead, but I'll keep missing greens by not learning different golf shots for different situations.

In the other thread Freddie mentioned that maybe choking down with 7i and taking a 3/4 swing would be a better option than a full 8i.

My friend told me if I ever wanted to learn this that he would have me hit an entire bucket of 7irons at the 100 yard marker. This would be to learn to control the club face, manipulate shots, and understand ball flight. Sure I hit it higher than most people, but what good is it if I'm coming up short, tugging it left, or hitting a toe shot that goes right?

I'm at my wits end with how many greens I miss from good positions. I would be happy with 8 GIR per round, because right now 5-7 per round isn't cutting it.

What are some things I can do at the range to work on taking more club but less of a swing? I feel the few times that I try it on the range it's very quick and taking hacks at the ball instead of the smooth swing.

Thanks!

 

[jlew]

We've spoke about this, we're in the same boat. I saw Panda's response in the other thread and it's something I'm going to try myself over the course of the next few rounds. Take 1 extra club and take a nice easy swing instead of trying to hit full shots every time.

The one thing that I noticed at the Memorial last week, was it appeared none of those guys were actually swinging balls out on every shot. Sure there were a few that you could tell they were giving it all they had, but for the most part it seemed to be 80-85%. Then I looked at myself yesterday and went, I'm trying to hit 100% every single time, and I'm pulling left or pushing right.

I'm sure Freddie will be along to give some pointers on what to do at the range.

 

[tpluff]

I struggle with this very thing all the time. I'll be tuning in to see some helpful tips....in the meantime...

 

[captaincaution]

What works for me is to club up, choke down a little bit, play the ball further back in my stance and commit to a 3/4 swing. Committing to the shot is really important, since I will end up just slapping at it otherwise and I'll miss right. Usually comes in much lower with enough spin to stop pretty quickly.

This works with my high launch GI irons.

 

[emart2173]

When I try to play a lower flight it’s usually a combo of longer club, grip down, stand closer to the ball, move ball back a little in the stance and the feeling of a 3/4 backswing and follow thru without getting to quick.

Laterally it’s a change in my stance alignment. Closed for draw and open for fade.

at the range pick a target and then an intermediate target you want the ball to fly over. Pick a target in the distance to judge peak height and see if you can get the ball under that

 

[JustAHack]

I was thinking about how good pros are at this when I was watching the HOR5E game between DJ and Jason Day in another thread. They were <130 yards out from a par 3 green and hitting random irons on the green. They knew the power for that distance for a 54* through 7 iron with the first swing.

My coach has been harping on hitting knock down PW shots vs full or partial swing 50-58* high shots. I’ve worked a lot on a 100 yard knock down PW shot at the range and really found it helpful the last few rounds. Not only to get under trees, but as a much higher consistency green shot since hitting it straight is much easier.

I’d suggest doing exactly what he told you and practice that shot a lot at the range, with the goal to focus on straight ball flight first and getting comfortable with the power second. I’ve found it easier to have an open stance and closed face almost like a bump and run chip.


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[The_Dude]

When I try to play a lower flight it’s usually a combo of longer club, grip down, stand closer to the ball, move ball back a little in the stance and the feeling of a 3/4 backswing and follow thru without getting to quick.

Laterally it’s a change in my stance alignment. Closed for draw and open for fade.

at the range pick a target and then an intermediate target you want the ball to fly over. Pick a target in the distance to judge peak height and see if you can get the ball under that

^^^This^^^ I also try get the feeling of keeping hands low and saw off finish. There's a 125 flag at the range I go to and when I'm down to last few balls I'll go pw-7i. I'm used to having to go under/around tree branches. :\

 

[arydolphin]

If you are going to work on this, do it with wedges first instead of irons. I'm working right now on doing that with my 50, 54 and 58 so that I have 3 distances with each club and it's still a work in progress. For some people, it's easier to take 3/4 or 1/2 swings. For other people, it's easier to take a full swing but take distance off by choking down on the grip.

In terms of practicing on the range to take some distance off, just pick a target and take 1 more club than you normally would do and hit it to that target. For example, my normal carry with my 58 is 95 yards, so I would take my 54 and try to hit a target at that distance (normal 54 carry is 110 yards).

 

[emart2173]

^^^This^^^ I also try get the feeling of keeping hands low and saw off finish. There's a 125 flag at the range I go to and when I'm down to last few balls I'll go pw-7i. I used to having to go under/around tree branches. :\

The low hands is a good point and one I include as well. High hands forcme is higher shot and vice versa.

 

[tbanks5]

Man this is so on time for me. I have been trying to work on flighting my irons so I'm tuned in to this.

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[McLovin]

i know this isn’t exactly what you’re asking, but i want to emphasize hitting greens isn’t about shaping and/or flighting the ball; it’s just as often about knowing your miss and playing accordingly.

imho, if you’re missing that many greens, the first thing to do is start analyzing your miss. how often is it short? left? right? or long. then adjust your game to plan for that miss.

and next, leave the range finder in the bag. the only numbers you should care about are the middle and the back. take 5y off the back number and choose your club from there.

when i first started using arccos per our morgan cup requirements, i was shocked how often i was missing greens short. i decided to take more club and be ok being a little long. i also just looked at the arccos number to the middle and back. my gir has gone up and my scoring has gone down.


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[CobraX51]

Sure there were a few that you could tell they were giving it all they had, but for the most part it seemed to be 80-85%. Then I looked at myself yesterday and went, I'm trying to hit 100% every single time, and I'm pulling left or pushing right.

I'm sure Freddie will be along to give some pointers on what to do at the range.

I think some of it for the amateurs is wanting to maximize distance, for me at least. The only club(s) I take half swings with are wedges, but the caveat is when it's inside 75 yards. I'm also not comfortable hitting a full swing 58*. But PW and AW I'm 100% full swing.

Committing to the shot is really important, since I will end up just slapping at it otherwise and I'll miss right. Usually comes in much lower with enough spin to stop pretty quickly

I also have the high launch GI irons and understand what you mean by committing to the shot, but more importantly how it holds a green. In my mind I think a lower/mid flighted shot would be tougher to hold and would skip as opposed to a high launch and softer landing into a green. But I've seen first hand too many times someone controlling their flight and reducing the spin. It works.

When I try to play a lower flight it’s usually a combo of longer club, grip down, stand closer to the ball, move ball back a little in the stance and the feeling of a 3/4 backswing and follow thru without getting to quick.

Getting quick is something I still battle with. Yesterday 112 to the pin I thought I had a nice calm takeaway with a AW but on the way down got too quick and thinned it over the green, and this was a full swing. The worst part is later in the round if I have a quick backswing then everything is shot. How is the turn/hip movement for you in this shot? Pretty quiet or still a normal turn?

^^^This^^^ I also try get the feeling of keeping hands low and saw off finish. There's a 125 flag at the range I go to and when I'm down to last few balls I'll go pw-7i. I'm used to having to go under/around tree branches. :\

This made me chuckle. To be perfectly honest I'm pretty happy with my punch out game. It's an abbreviated backswing maybe hip high and a follow thru maybe knee high. I can execute this shot. My issue is with having the ability to fire at a green with no danger, and yet I'm still missing. I do like how you finish your bucket with the same distance but with different clubs.

If you are going to work on this, do it with wedges first instead of irons.

In terms of practicing on the range to take some distance off, just pick a target and take 1 more club than you normally would do and hit it to that target.

What's funny is I do it with wedges when I chip/pitch in the short game area. I'll go 25-50 yards out and take semi-swings with my 58* since I never take a full swing with it in practice or play.

Convincing myself to take that same approach with a 6iron or 5iron is a completely different task though, one that I have never attempted. Even just flighting a 9 iron, I take full swings when I move over to the range.

I will try the suggestions that have been provided and await Panda's response. Because crushing it at the range is nice and all, but when the greens are smaller and in a live round, it isn't the same thing whatsoever as we know.

My coach has been harping on hitting knock down PW shots vs full or partial swing 50-58* high shots. I’ve worked a lot on a 100 yard knock down PW shot at the range and really found it helpful the last few rounds. Not only to get under trees, but as a much higher consistency green shot since hitting it straight is much easier.

I think the 100 yard knockdown PW is a good start. I know my PW can reach 130-135 yards. Perhaps ego could come into play that I want to launch the ball high. But it's time to put the ego aside and hit more greens, because launching it high with wedges from GREAT positions in the fairway is doing me no good if I keep missing.

 

[Snickerdog]

I have been shown how to play these shots, but it is hard for me to do. I understand the concept, but can't always execute it. Part of the problem IMO is when trying these types of shots, is that in your mind you think 7 iron goes this far and you start to worry about over hitting and blasting across the green. In reality you will probably come up short quite a few times until you learn the swing needed to master these type of shots.

 

[CobraX51]

imho, if you’re missing that many greens, the first thing to do is start analyzing your miss. how often is it short? left? right? or long. then adjust your game to plan for that miss.

and next, leave the range finder in the bag. the only numbers you should care about are the middle and the back. take 5y off the back number and choose your club from there.

when i first started using arccos per our morgan cup requirements, i was shocked how often i was missing greens short. i decided to take more club and be ok being a little long. i also just looked at the arccos number to the middle and back. my gir has gone up and my scoring has gone down.

What's up Chris.

First and foremost my miss is typically left with irons and full swing wedges. Now twice yesterday I missed greens right when I would hit it off the toe, but that to me sounds like a setup issue and getting too armsy. Typically I'll miss left of the green so I aim at the right of the green.

The issue that you had with missing greens short is a good miss for me. I have the mindset of missing below the hole is much better so I can chip it up hill or at worst leave myself an uphill putt. Missing long is something I avoid so I don't have to chip downhill or putt downhill.

I have been shown how to play these shots, but it is hard for me to do. I understand the concept, but can't always execute it. Part of the problem IMO is when trying these types of shots, is that in your mind you think 7 iron goes this far and you start to worry about over hitting and blasting across the green. In reality you will probably come up short quite a few times until you learn the swing needed to master these type of shots.

Sniiiiick what's up man. It is something I need and want to add in my repertoire. I'm happy with my current golf game but too often I'm wasting shots in a given round with poor approach shots and I can't keep ignoring it because like I said I'm very happy with where I'm at in Golf. That doesn't mean I just want to stay status-quo and keep missing greens.

Furthermore, and sadly, if I have a headwind I'm still taking full swings. Yesterday I had 120 to the green and a bad headwind. I hit a full 8i and it landed just short of the green, at least it went straight haha, but it got caught in the wind. My playing partner hit a line drive 5iron and on the green, same smooth swing despite the headwind.

It's borderline impossible to hit full swings into wind, and I have come to a point where I can't keep doing this and guess what iron to hit.

 

[emart2173]

Getting quick is something I still battle with. Yesterday 112 to the pin I thought I had a nice calm takeaway with a AW but on the way down got too quick and thinned it over the green, and this was a full swing. The worst part is later in the round if I have a quick backswing then everything is shot. How is the turn/hip movement for you in this shot? Pretty quiet or still a normal turn?
.

Everything is relatively the same. Since it’s going to be a 1/2 or 3/4 shot the amount of turn will be less. For me I picture trying to hit a punch shot

 

[The_Dude]

This made me chuckle. To be perfectly honest I'm pretty happy with my punch out game. It's an abbreviated backswing maybe hip high and a follow thru maybe knee high. I can execute this shot. My issue is with having the ability to fire at a green with no danger, and yet I'm still missing. I do like how you finish your bucket with the same distance but with different clubs.

I originally started doing that drill for head high punch outs. There's a few courses I play that can get really windy and I had to learn how to apply on the course....without tree's in the way.

 

[JonD]

Some good thoughts in here, to which I'll add nothing.

I'm guilty of taking big swings whenever possible as well. That's certainly not my only problem but one I need to work on.

 

[Alez367]

so i'll ask, are you looking to flight the ball with same club or flight the ball with more club and less swing?

 

[CobraX51]

so i'll ask, are you looking to flight the ball with same club or flight the ball with more club and less swing?

Flight the ball with more club and less swing. I'm going to the range Wednesday to see how it goes, at the very worst mess around with it.

 

[Alez367]

Flight the ball with more club and less swing. I'm going to the range Wednesday to see how it goes, at the very worst mess around with it.

One point of advice if I may since I do this already, don’t choke down on the club to begin/learn. Instead focus on smoother tempo with measured backswings. Choking down while learning tends to lead to digging when you go back to full swings.


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[blakehall]

First of all, I'm sure you'll get there. So the first thing I'd suggest is to have some more confidence you can hit more GIRs.

When I'm playing poorly I'm totally guilty of relying too much on a range finder / GPS. I'll see a number and get fixated on what club that "should" be without taking much else into account.

What I've found works best for me is to start thinking about the shot you want to hit before you even get up to the ball and have a solid number. After you tee shot lands, you should have a solid +/- 15 yard idea of what you're looking at for an approach shot. Picture the shot landing on the middle of the green. Do you have to fly it all there or can you run it up? Can you take advantage of the wind direction and your preferred shot shape? Will your draw be working with the wind, or will the wind be holding it up? Do you need to go long or short to leave yourself in a better recovery spot?

All of these questions will help you decide if you're better off going with more or less club before you even have an exact number. Then, in the 80% situation where it's not an absolutely perfect yardage you'll have a direction to lean to help you decide which club to hit.

When you've decided it's a smarter miss to have more (or less) club, it's a heck of a lot easier to put a confident swing on whatever club will hit that 165.4 number that the range finder gives you.

 

[CobraX51]

First of all, I'm sure you'll get there. So the first thing I'd suggest is to have some more confidence you can hit more GIRs.

When I'm playing poorly I'm totally guilty of relying too much on a range finder / GPS. I'll see a number and get fixated on what club that "should" be without taking much else into account.

With a wedge or short iron in my hand I do expect to hit the green. Admittedly my course golf swing is just a tad quicker than my range golf swing which leads to these occasional pulls where I'm missing greens. On the range I rarely pull since it's more of a relaxed swing. Light bulb moment is obviously swing like I do on the range but it just doesn't quite translate yet, more adrenaline than anything.

Not playing with a rangefinder is something I've never done. I will say that if a number does say 146, I'll factor in where the pin is to decide which club I go with, and typically want to club less to be short of the pin and have an uphill putt or chip.

I think your suggestion of visualizing the shot shape, or see it land on the green could be something I implement. I usually just set my club face to where I want to aim and fire.

When you've decided it's a smarter miss to have more (or less) club, it's a heck of a lot easier to put a confident swing on whatever club will hit that 165.4 number that the range finder gives you.

This is a great example. This exact scenario happened to me recently and I grabbed 6iron, 166 to a back pin. One bounce off the back of the green and down in the death area of dirt/no grass to chip from, not to mention now I have no green to work with on my chip from the behind the green. It was a flushed 6iron that carried 170. Problem is I don't always flush it, so I thought a "mis-hit" 6i would get me on the green. But that is a bad way to approach a golf shot and poor shot selection.

What I'm trying to learn is still being able to hit that same 6i but not swing 100%, yes that flushed shot felt great, yes I held the pose, and yes I twirled it, but then I looked like a fool when it trickled off the back haha. That perfectly flushed shot doesn't happen a lot for me in a given round. When I chip it is typically around the middle of the face since it's easier to take half swings. I'm trying to convince or learn myself to take less of a swing with the same or even more of a club to try and get more center faced contact. Full swings are not as easy to control and/or hit dead center for me at the moment.

 

[2BFAST]

When we were at the Game Changer event with Jamie Sadlowski, I asked the question: How do you have gapping in your bag or know what club to pull because of his very large distance scale?

He told us, it depends on what window he wants it to go through. He mentioned taking 1/2 or 3/4 swings is where amateur golfers go wrong is they are used to taking full swings, then when they take 1/2 or 3/4 they try and compensate and that's where error steps in I.E, chunk, thin, ect. He said the best way he flights or takes distances off is to make the lever (golf club) shorter to take off distance and feel like hes standing more on top of it but make the same length of swing but consistent swing. Obviously he has the ability to stretch clubs out to absurd distances but that's not consistent.

When I read Hank Haneys book The Big Miss he wrote about coaching Tiger, he told Tiger he needs to be able to hit 9 shots with every club in his bag on command and when needed which is essentially what Peter Kostis is working with Jamie on what window you want the ball to go through:

Low fade, low straight, low draw
Mid fade, mid fade, mid draw
High fade, mid fade, mid draw

Now im not sure how Tiger takes distances off? But to me, making the tool or lever shorter with a consistent swing makes more sense to me rather than taking a 3/4 or 1/2 and trying to compensate. Especially for us amateurs and mostly for the mid to higher handicap variety which ball striking is very inconsistent.