Left wrist: Manipulate or Natural?

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I was toying around on the range with my driver trying to keep that left wrist flat at impact. To do it I need to manipulate it on my downswing. If I don't do anything (slightly cupped) I'll hit a huge power fade, if I overdo it (bowed to much) I'll hit a huge draw. So I tried something different. I held the club at address with the face closed (so it was actually aiming about 25 yards to the left of my target. I just swung the club without any manipulation and it went straight. Doesn't seem like the right thing to do though.

I'm curious if anyone else does this or has tips for getting that flat wrist another way than what I've been trying.
 
natural or neutral
but let me find the video
I love this video and it sounds kind of like what you’ve done.

 
I do something similar. Difference is I have the club face a little open at address.

During some instruction I took many years ago , the instructor said something along the lines that during the down swing, the club face rarely returns to the same position it was at address. I took his word for it.

He had me manipulate (experiment?) the club face and my grip until I found a respectable ball impact position.

The results were a slightly open club face, with a very neutral grip. The neutral grip being both my fore fingers/thumbs Vs being pointed at my sternum.

That was some 40 years ago. I never looked back.
 
natural or neutral
but let me find the video
I love this video and it sounds kind of like what you’ve done.



Thanks. 9:25 of the video is exactly what I was toying with. Very good right and left hand grip explanation. I'll try that today and see what happens.
 
I was toying around on the range with my driver trying to keep that left wrist flat at impact. To do it I need to manipulate it on my downswing. If I don't do anything (slightly cupped) I'll hit a huge power fade, if I overdo it (bowed to much) I'll hit a huge draw. So I tried something different. I held the club at address with the face closed (so it was actually aiming about 25 yards to the left of my target. I just swung the club without any manipulation and it went straight. Doesn't seem like the right thing to do though.

I'm curious if anyone else does this or has tips for getting that flat wrist another way than what I've been trying.
Not me. Physics will naturally slightly bow the left wrist at impact if my right hand stays out of the swing. Just stand and let the club swing back and forth with your left hand only, with just a little hip turn from the top. If you're loose enough it happens without thinking because the weight of the club head is lagging.
 
Def manipulate with my irons.
 
Shutting the face helps you rotate through. You can bow it at the top, or bow it on the way down.

i’ve been working on bowing it to start the downswing. helps me with a more positive path.
 
Let me know the process of "bowing the wrist". Does the right hand pull the left back? How much does one bow the wrist, when, and where does one hold that from what position?
 
Let me know the process of "bowing the wrist". Does the right hand pull the left back? How much does one bow the wrist, when, and where does one hold that from what position?
I have the left palm up during the takeaway which becomes palm down at the top. So I supinate the left wrist during the backswing. The clubface still opens but not more than 90* in relation to the swing plane, more than likely 80*. The right arm has the shoulder externally rotated with the elbow forward and down inside my hip line. My arms resist the downswing and I am conscious of the wrist bone leading through impact with the clubshaft free- wheeling by itself.
 
Let me know the process of "bowing the wrist". Does the right hand pull the left back? How much does one bow the wrist, when, and where does one hold that from what position?

i’m not really sure it’s necessary to attempt a specific degree of flex (if that’s even how it’s measured). for me, i just think about starting to square the face by flexing my left wrist.
 
Let me know the process of "bowing the wrist". Does the right hand pull the left back? How much does one bow the wrist, when, and where does one hold that from what position?
Hinge your right wrist back immediately in the backswing. (Right palm pointing up at top of backswing.) Keep it that way as long as possible. Instant bowed left wrist.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
I set the club face square to the ball and keep my leading wrist flat through the swing. Fewer variables that way. If my swing is good (left arm straight through the swing, no chicken wing, swing neither in nor out, keep my arms and shoulders out of the swing), the ball will go right where I'm aiming, almost w/o fail, w/maybe only a baby fade or draw. My instructor taught us that's what would happen and, IME, that's what does happen.

The trick of course being to execute that good swing :ROFLMAO:
 
Hinge your right wrist back immediately in the backswing. (Right palm pointing up at top of backswing.) Keep it that way as long as possible. Instant bowed left wrist.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I went to my impact bag and swung left hand only...loose arm and upper body. If I apply just a little hip turn just before the club travels to the top, my left wrist is slightly bowed at impact due to the weight of the club lagging behind. So I'm not quite sure why I would need to focus on bowing my left wrist. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
With work from my pro I have really starting putting together a solid swing. Here is what he has me doing and maybe it will work for you. At the top of my backswing, my wrists move to flexion. This does 2 things. It closes the club face and it makes the club face end up more behind me as I start my downswing bringing it from inside to out.

I had some issues pulling it left and occasionally hitting a hook when I first was making this change. The key for me is grip to make it work and work well. I have shorter fingers(usually wear cadet gloves) and I bury the small finger on my right hand when I interlock them. I had to adjust that a bit as my right hand was just too strong and I was massively closing the face. It took some practice and experimenting to find a good position for my right hand. I still have to put that small finger in pretty deep but adjust the rest of my fingers and hand to keep it more neutral.

A lot of amateurs seem to want to flip their wrists just before or at impact toclose the face and many are taught that by someone. While I am sure there are some people out there who can consistently tune that perfectly and hit good shots I find it easier to set my wrists at the top and hold that position through the swing. I also know I can leave it just a tad open with that same set up and swing and hit a fade if I need to.

I am one of those guys that has the same basic swing for every club. The main difference is just set up.

Now this is just what seems to work for me but I am a huge advocate of finding a good pro that you trust to work on your swing with. Don’t expect one lesson and instant perfection. You may see some lessons that vastly improve your game and others that have smaller impact. I didn’t even realize until recently that my pro was slowly making little changes. All of a sudden, after my last lesson 2-3 weeks ago, I get a lesson every couple months or so now, it feels like it all came together and clicked. I have never been so relaxed and tension free playing the game. I always had a bit of anxiety while addressing the ball but now I can see my shot while standing behind it and have no doubt I can hit it when I stand over it. I still do something dumb and hit bad shots of course. I am an amateur and I am still working to ingrain good muscle memory and break bad habits but it is a totally different game the. I was playing before.
 
I guess that I go about the grip differently than most people? My left/top hand position is dictated by my hitting hand.

Yeah........most of us put the top hand on the club first, but my final position is where ever my right hand squares to the clubface at the bottom of the swing.

The only thing I care about is setting the right hand to the leading edge of the driver/iron for a straight shot and maintaining square through impact. The release happens naturally unless I am working the ball with a block.

If it gets back to the ball square, I'll be a great shape. The right hand is doing the hitting and that is where I put my focus.

Am I wrong here?
 
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I was toying around on the range with my driver trying to keep that left wrist flat at impact. To do it I need to manipulate it on my downswing. If I don't do anything (slightly cupped) I'll hit a huge power fade, if I overdo it (bowed to much) I'll hit a huge draw. So I tried something different. I held the club at address with the face closed (so it was actually aiming about 25 yards to the left of my target. I just swung the club without any manipulation and it went straight. Doesn't seem like the right thing to do though.

I'm curious if anyone else does this or has tips for getting that flat wrist another way than what I've been trying.
You have strengthened your grip and it is a valid way to straiten ball flight out. You can address the ball however you want, but most will rotate that club face to square at address.
 
At the top of my backswing, my wrists move to flexion. This does 2 things. It closes the club face and it makes the club face end up more behind me as I start my downswing bringing it from inside to out.

this right here. perfectly described, exactly the move and desired effect my instructor has me working on. it’s so simple, yet so effective. when i do it, effortless power and gorgeous push draws.
 
At the top of my backswing, my wrists move to flexion.
If your pro taught you that like ours did, your left wrist is cocking up, I guess you'd say, rather than toward the inside or outside of your wrist.

E.g.: If I back-swing only so far as getting the club parallel to the ground, the toe of the club will be pointing nearly straight up--the face at nearly right angles to the ground. If I then cock my wrists they way we were taught, the face of the club is still at right angles to the ground, but the toe is now pointing somewhere over the back of my shoulders.

Another way to look at it: My left wrist is cocked neither in nor out, but up. Thus the left wrist is still flat to the club face.
 
Reporting back after some range work and a round of golf. On the range I was able to understand how to aim the club face at the target with a stronger grip. Felt a lot more comfortable. With that done, I no longer used any thought of manipulation on my downswing (or upswing). I've worked so hard with swing plane over the last 2 years that I believe it's right on. So, I was striping everything within an acceptable target range. Even my irons were going farther and more consistent. All I have to think about about is being loose and having the club in my left hand correctly.

So I took it to the course yesterday with my buds. Not a single OB off the tee for the first time in a long time (if not ever on my home course). With this grip I now understand how I can play some shots like a cut (just open it up in the grip a little). I did it 3 times on the course and it worked to perfection. Can't wait to go back to the range and work some more with it. Been struggling with the club face for quite a while and now I'm pumped to have some command over it.
 
Thus the left wrist is still flat to the club face.

the left wrist is always the club face. they move together. you can’t manipulate one without the other.
 
Reporting back after some range work and a round of golf. On the range I was able to understand how to aim the club face at the target with a stronger grip. Felt a lot more comfortable. With that done, I no longer used any thought of manipulation on my downswing (or upswing). I've worked so hard with swing plane over the last 2 years that I believe it's right on. So, I was striping everything within an acceptable target range. Even my irons were going farther and more consistent. All I have to think about about is being loose and having the club in my left hand correctly.

So I took it to the course yesterday with my buds. Not a single OB off the tee for the first time in a long time (if not ever on my home course). With this grip I now understand how I can play some shots like a cut (just open it up in the grip a little). I did it 3 times on the course and it worked to perfection. Can't wait to go back to the range and work some more with it. Been struggling with the club face for quite a while and now I'm pumped to have some command over it.
I no longer used any thought of manipulation on my downswing (or upswing)........All I have to think about about is being loose and having the club in my left hand correctly. Once you discovered the these two main improvements, you probably thought "what the heck was I trying to do all these years?" :)

I liked the video about the grip because he explains body movement in relation to the grip and right arm. After about 8 minutes I was seeing the illustration of the grip in the Hogan book. V's pointing to certain areas, inside right elbow facing more up, etc. The key to making this work is to ensure the toe of the club is pointed up midway back. I've seen folks with this exact grip who ruin everything on the takeaway. Then they blame the grip and they're back down the rabbit hole.

The only thing I wasn't wild about was "applying pressure" with the right arm. I get what he's saying but that can incite people to push the ball with their right side vs. a left-side generated whip action.
 
Stated it poorly. What I really meant by that was the left forearm above the wrist.
That could be argued either way. The forearm doesn't bend or break (hopefully) but the wrist can move in multiple directions, so where the wrist moves so goes the club face.
 
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