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McLovin's Journey to Improve

OldandStiff said:


Thank God for sticks, video, and trusted eyes right? Everyone always talks about exact same position, setup, etc. I honestly don't think it exists. Something is always creeping toward an exaggeration of whatever made it seem like that little amount was just right. Constant little adjustments bringing it all back around again and again. Hopefully that loop just gets a little tighter each time.
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yesterday on the range was going pretty well. i was trying to focus on the ol' head swivel to check alignment. i have a bad habit of kind of standing up and opening my whole chest to get eyes on the target, which obviously pulls everything open. so i'd swivel the head down the line, then get everything back in alignment, and go. hit some damn good shots.

toward the end of the large bucket i got kinda bored, so i started hitting dumb shots with my 7i. huge slice half shots to a 100y target. punch cuts to a 130y target. then all out trying to reach the 180 stick. dumb stuff like that. but it was fun because i was able to move the ball all around. until i couldn't. i started shanking the sh1t out of the punch cut. no matter what i tried, i was basically almost missing the ball. then i did the head swivel, and i was aimed like 50 yards left, when i thought i was only like 5-10 yards left for the punch cut. adjusted to where i wanted to be, then hit it beautifully again.
 
McLovin said:
yesterday on the range was going pretty well. i was trying to focus on the ol' head swivel to check alignment. i have a bad habit of kind of standing up and opening my whole chest to get eyes on the target, which obviously pulls everything open. so i'd swivel the head down the line, then get everything back in alignment, and go. hit some damn good shots.

toward the end of the large bucket i got kinda bored, so i started hitting dumb shots with my 7i. huge slice half shots to a 100y target. punch cuts to a 130y target. then all out trying to reach the 180 stick. dumb stuff like that. but it was fun because i was able to move the ball all around. until i couldn't. i started shanking the sh1t out of the punch cut. no matter what i tried, i was basically almost missing the ball. then i did the head swivel, and i was aimed like 50 yards left, when i thought i was only like 5-10 yards left for the punch cut. adjusted to where i wanted to be, then hit it beautifully again.
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You might try this. May not work for everyone, but as usual, when I don't have answers, I cull youtube.

Get behind the ball to get your target line and find a target point on that line aboot' a foot in front of the ball.

Approach the ball wide open (as much as comfortable), like walking to your target - put the club in front of or behind the ball aligned to your mark/point.

Take your address position.

It's been working for about 7 rounds with all clubs. Don't use it on putter. I use a hybrid aim point.
 
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McLovin said:
yesterday on the range was going pretty well. i was trying to focus on the ol' head swivel to check alignment. i have a bad habit of kind of standing up and opening my whole chest to get eyes on the target, which obviously pulls everything open. so i'd swivel the head down the line, then get everything back in alignment, and go. hit some damn good shots.

toward the end of the large bucket i got kinda bored, so i started hitting dumb shots with my 7i. huge slice half shots to a 100y target. punch cuts to a 130y target. then all out trying to reach the 180 stick. dumb stuff like that. but it was fun because i was able to move the ball all around. until i couldn't. i started shanking the sh1t out of the punch cut. no matter what i tried, i was basically almost missing the ball. then i did the head swivel, and i was aimed like 50 yards left, when i thought i was only like 5-10 yards left for the punch cut. adjusted to where i wanted to be, then hit it beautifully again.
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Range.
Bored.
Start doing silly stuff.
Need to stop before self-inflicted shanks set in.
Actually focus on couple basic importants for a minute.
Flush some beauties and call it a session...

Thanks for doing my usual for me. Feel like I'm good for this month now. (y) lol


Love the idea of running back through lesson videos in order to get a feel for past points of focus btw. Not just as good reminders of things that may help, but also it's good to see how far you've come in some ways too, and even just things that have changed in ways you didn't realize over time.
 
i have a tattoo on my forehead that says "unsolicited swing advice welcomed at all times." like seriously, it happens so freaking much. usually it drives me crazy, and it happened AGAIN at the range on monday but it actually ended up being serendipitous and maybe something to get me back on track.

the range by my house is garbage, even though the course is pretty cool. but it's less than 5 minutes away, so my quick practice sessions are always spent there. there's a cast of characters at this range. mostly it's just head nods of recognition in passing, but one guy in particular is range-famous. his name is larry.

larry looks to be in his 80s. he can't weigh more than 120 pounds. he smokes many packs of cigarettes a day, and spends several hours every day grinding on his swing. he has a great swing, really good positions, and even though time has robbed him of his speed he still hits a very pretty ball. short game appears to be his biggest struggle, though.

many of the other frequent fliers lean on larry for swing advice. sometimes i can tell it's planned; other times someone just grabs his attention and asks for his knowledgeable eye as they flail away. he's very old school, and i've overheard his advice and disagreed with it more often than not. nevertheless, he's so kind with his time you can't help but the respect the hell out of him.

to his credit, although he sees me at the range often, he's never commented on my swing. heck, i've never seen him comment on anyone's swing unless they approach him. recently we've gone ever-so-slightly past the nod of recognition. he'll shuffle by me, cigarette in one hand, large bucket in his other hand, decades old irons resting on his shoulder, and say "swing's lookin' good." or he'll see me duff a chip and say "that's not like you." again, so kind.

but on monday for whatever reason larry lingered a bit longer. he again said "swing's lookin' good," and i responded with a typical self-deprecating comment to politely respond but not really engage further. first i think larry's ideas of the swing are bit antiquated, but second i'm paying ty quite a bit of money so i should just focus on what he tells me to focus on. but larry lingered. he said, "no really, it's the best it's looked." i thanked him, then got back to hitting a drive. the swing was ok, but a bit of a high fade. he says "that's all you got from there." intrigued i asked "what do you mean?" he shows me a better motion for the backswing, something you see instructors do often. basically an anti-flying elbow move where you let the trail elbow fold in a more natural way.

hmmm. i didn't realize this was in my swing. so i rehearse it and give it and hit another ball. not the best swing, but he says "looks better" and shuffles on.

later that day i'm taking a brain break at work and pull up youtube. ty has posted this video:

exactly the same thing larry had just told me to work on! so i've been thinking about it, rehearsing it in the mirror, and realize that i have absolutely let that trail elbow fly in an effort to lengthen the backswing, but also maybe because i'm losing some shoulder mobility.

i went to the range today with this as much focus, and was blown away by how good my contact was. i was able to release the club from the inside, and hit center face push draws. dispersion was really good too. i'm all kinds of intrigued by this latest development.
 
a little short game work at lunch today. it started bad. like, real bad. i tried to stay positive, just grinding on the move and feels. by the end it was good. like, real good.

i think often about the wedge fitting i'm scheduled to do at some point this year. my short game work lately has followed this same rhythm of being awful. but eventually ending very very well hitting the two types of shots we've been working on. ty and i are getting together next week, just focusing on short game. so hopefully as we continue to work, the good will start faster and faster, and there won't be quite the bad. because my nightmare situation is going to my fitting, and never finding my way off the struggle bus. what a waste that would be.
 
McLovin said:
i have a tattoo on my forehead that says "unsolicited swing advice welcomed at all times." like seriously, it happens so freaking much. usually it drives me crazy, and it happened AGAIN at the range on monday but it actually ended up being serendipitous and maybe something to get me back on track.

the range by my house is garbage, even though the course is pretty cool. but it's less than 5 minutes away, so my quick practice sessions are always spent there. there's a cast of characters at this range. mostly it's just head nods of recognition in passing, but one guy in particular is range-famous. his name is larry.

larry looks to be in his 80s. he can't weigh more than 120 pounds. he smokes many packs of cigarettes a day, and spends several hours every day grinding on his swing. he has a great swing, really good positions, and even though time has robbed him of his speed he still hits a very pretty ball. short game appears to be his biggest struggle, though.

many of the other frequent fliers lean on larry for swing advice. sometimes i can tell it's planned; other times someone just grabs his attention and asks for his knowledgeable eye as they flail away. he's very old school, and i've overheard his advice and disagreed with it more often than not. nevertheless, he's so kind with his time you can't help but the respect the hell out of him.

to his credit, although he sees me at the range often, he's never commented on my swing. heck, i've never seen him comment on anyone's swing unless they approach him. recently we've gone ever-so-slightly past the nod of recognition. he'll shuffle by me, cigarette in one hand, large bucket in his other hand, decades old irons resting on his shoulder, and say "swing's lookin' good." or he'll see me duff a chip and say "that's not like you." again, so kind.

but on monday for whatever reason larry lingered a bit longer. he again said "swing's lookin' good," and i responded with a typical self-deprecating comment to politely respond but not really engage further. first i think larry's ideas of the swing are bit antiquated, but second i'm paying ty quite a bit of money so i should just focus on what he tells me to focus on. but larry lingered. he said, "no really, it's the best it's looked." i thanked him, then got back to hitting a drive. the swing was ok, but a bit of a high fade. he says "that's all you got from there." intrigued i asked "what do you mean?" he shows me a better motion for the backswing, something you see instructors do often. basically an anti-flying elbow move where you let the trail elbow fold in a more natural way.

hmmm. i didn't realize this was in my swing. so i rehearse it and give it and hit another ball. not the best swing, but he says "looks better" and shuffles on.

later that day i'm taking a brain break at work and pull up youtube. ty has posted this video:

exactly the same thing larry had just told me to work on! so i've been thinking about it, rehearsing it in the mirror, and realize that i have absolutely let that trail elbow fly in an effort to lengthen the backswing, but also maybe because i'm losing some shoulder mobility.

i went to the range today with this as much focus, and was blown away by how good my contact was. i was able to release the club from the inside, and hit center face push draws. dispersion was really good too. i'm all kinds of intrigued by this latest development.
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I don't hate you for being able to willingly tuck that trail elbow, but I'd trade you some short game for your right shoulder. Mine just doesn't allow it. That's awesome it had an immediate impact for you, and got you that push draw that's easy to love. And that old guy Larry sounds pretty awesome. No one wants unsolicited advice, but every range could use a guy like that.
 
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OldandStiff said:
I don't hate you for being able to willingly tuck that trail elbow, but I'd trade you some short game for your right shoulder. Mine just doesn't allow it. That's awesome it had an immediate impact for you, and got you that push draw that's easy to love. And that old guy Larry sounds pretty awesome. No one wants unsolicited advice, but every range could use a guy like that.
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i’ll try to get a video to see if i’m actually doing it. it’s amazing how much easier and how much less tension there is when i concentrate on letting it fold.

do you have shoulder mobility issues?
 
McLovin said:
i’ll try to get a video to see if i’m actually doing it. it’s amazing how much easier and how much less tension there is when i concentrate on letting it fold.

do you have shoulder mobility issues?
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Ya. In that one. It's been fixed a few times. Has a torn rotator and labrum right now that don't let me rotate with it low, but interest in repairing it without replacement is low on their part, and replacement is low on mine, so I just let that sombitch fly. Lol

Makes a lot of things easier to keep it in though. Hence the jealousy.
 
OldandStiff said:
Ya. In that one. It's been fixed a few times. Has a torn rotator and labrum right now that don't let me rotate with it low, but interest in repairing it without replacement is low on their part, and replacement is low on mine, so I just let that sombitch fly. Lol

Makes a lot of things easier to keep it in though. Hence the jealousy.
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couple swings from this morning trying to tuck the elbow. looks ok, not as tight to the body as i’d like. second video is a little better (last ball of the day), but i need the path to throw more to the right. still looks ok to me. i’ll throw a comparison of the most recent iron swing i have on video. there’s definitely a little flying elbow in that video.

previous:
View attachment trim.EDA7A19F-D907-4CBE-AB0B-91E7E9228BD9.MOV

first video from today:
View attachment trim.9660DB92-16AD-43FC-9DB4-0039BAB071A1.MOV

last video from today:
View attachment trim.932FB018-3EF2-4A2E-91F9-F5EA67CA4ACB.MOV
 
McLovin said:
couple swings from this morning trying to tuck the elbow. looks ok, not as tight to the body as i’d like. second video is a little better (last ball of the day), but i need the path to throw more to the right. still looks ok to me. i’ll throw a comparison of the most recent iron swing i have on video. there’s definitely a little flying elbow in that video.

previous:
View attachment 9023321

first video from today:
View attachment 9023322

last video from today:
View attachment 9023323
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Well done! Looks like your focus on the elbow tuck is helping you keep your right shoulder back at transition/start of the downswing, which is something that I have to work on constantly. (y)
 
Puttmaster said:
Well done! Looks like your focus on the elbow tuck is helping you keep your right shoulder back at transition/start of the downswing, which is something that I have to work on constantly. (y)
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thanks! i think my path going left is in large part because my balance sucks and my core is weak and my hips/hamstrings are super tight. my left hip should be moving lower and lefter (haha) through impact, which would let me swing the arms more from the inside. so far that hasn't been a focus that ty has given me, so i haven't focused on that left hip. i have a feeling we will at some point. i also need to re-focus on shortening the backswing a bit. my hands/arms push up at the end, which is just inefficient. the hands/arms need to be a little lower, and the club needs to fall into a little more of a set position. always something to work on.

i did some short game work before the full swing, and it got good much earlier. i'm excited for my lesson with ty next week. maybe, just MAYBE, we're chipping away at this and making some progress.
 
@McLovin FWIW, when I'm working on it in practice, rather than thinking "tuck," I think "keep right elbow pointing straight down." This is a little GW shot ...
 
@McLovin I put that strap around me to keep the right elbow in - started making it more of a habit recently (as I have experienced flying elbow) and yes, it works.

As to the right shoulder, if you sequence correctly, with the lower body and hips, then upper body, that right shoulder should release and improve club path as you swing left - I am also working on getting that lead hip out of the way - I think "right turn" on the backswing and "left turn" on the downswing. Something simple to remind myself to get the hips out of my way (and no sway).

Good luck. Wish you fun on the short game.
 
Puttmaster said:
@McLovin FWIW, when I'm working on it in practice, rather than thinking "tuck," I think "keep right elbow pointing straight down." This is a little GW shot ...
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that’s a great looking swing!
 
cautiously optimistic about things right now. focus on the range is trying not to lift the arms as much in the backswing, just let the trail elbow fold and not push the hands up. keep that lead knee flex more inside the toe line (a feel from several lessons ago to keep the trail hip from drifting in toward the ball). lift the trail heel as early as possible in the downswing (still too flat-footed at impact). small bucket of balls at lunch time and almost all of them were pretty high quality, and seemed to be hit pretty hard by my standards.

short game work this morning was mostly pretty good too. lesson wednesday, round with a client on thursday.
 
McLovin said:
cautiously optimistic about things right now. focus on the range is trying not to lift the arms as much in the backswing, just let the trail elbow fold and not push the hands up. keep that lead knee flex more inside the toe line (a feel from several lessons ago to keep the trail hip from drifting in toward the ball). lift the trail heel as early as possible in the downswing (still too flat-footed at impact). small bucket of balls at lunch time and almost all of them were pretty high quality, and seemed to be hit pretty hard by my standards.

short game work this morning was mostly pretty good too. lesson wednesday, round with a client on thursday.
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Looking good. One thing that always helps me in practice is to slow things way down. Try to make the back swing at half speed to maintain the positions you want. When practicing I frequently do that for 3 swings then mix in a regular swing.
 
damn you, youtube and you're stupid self-diagnosing temptations. i've been chasing the feel of folding the trail arm, and in my attempt i've managed to create a severe forearm rotation to start the backswing. the club goes way behind me, and it pulls my lower body in toward the ball.

so in today's lesson we worked on getting the club to work straight back, then set at the top. we saw the biggest attack in irons we've seen yet, a few over 7* down. that's obviously not ideal, but when we started together my attack was closer to 0* with irons. i have to focus more on path with this move, but we hit a few good ones. i wanted to try it with driver, and it was not very good. the biggest key was to really exaggerate a pause at the top to give me time in transition. the pause adds 4mph to my driver club speed.

then we went to short game. ty asked me what type of shot i wanted to hit, and i told him i wanted to work on my "nightmare" shot. tight lie, very little green to work with, mostly carry. so we found a damn hard shot, and for bonus points it was on a grainy lie that was soft/wet. i had to pitch the ball about 80% of the way to the stick, and the green ran away a bit. the shot was about 15 yards.

we started out pretty decently. i kind of surprised myself. but the familiar chunks/mishits didn't take long to invite themselves to our party. ty diagnosed it pretty quickly, and it's something we've worked on before. for my worst shots, i shift my weight off the lead foot during the backswing and never recover to the lead side. when the weight stays back i either hit the ball way out on the toe, or just chunk it. oh yeah, sometimes there's the dreaded tc chen double-hit. that's a fun one.

we messed with a few different feels, including one from a previous lesson where i try to actually shift the weight to the target during the backswing in kind of a stack-and-tilt reverse-pivot move. sometimes it would work, but we couldn't find the right move. then ty said he had an idea. he said he expected it to be super hard, and that he had never actually tried it himself.

set up for a normal short chip. not a bump and run, but the kind where you have to release the head and use the bounce. but instead of normal ball position, move the ball off your front toe like a driver. the idea is the only way to find contact is to use your lower body to shift toward the target. you can't hang back. you can't drag the handle. you can't flip your wrists. you have to shift forward with your lower body to find low point/impact.

the results were insane. spin. launch. control. repeatability. and almost no fatted shots. an added bonus was that this ball position eliminated my tendency to take the club way inside behind me in the backswing; instead, the backswing position was perfect. it really blew both of our minds how good this was for me.

then we practiced a little lower flight hop, grab and roll type of chip. he really liked what i was doing, and we were able to see that when i don't hit a clean shot it's again because of weight getting stuck on my back foot. so we used a smaller shift, and saw some excellent shots. the dispersion pattern around the hole was really nice.

i'm not sure the next time we'll be able to get together. i'm approaching a few pretty big deadlines at work.
 
what a lesson today. ty said he wanted to work on something, but was a little hesitant because i wasn't swinging badly. he liked that my iron swing path was from the inside, and i was hitting high push draws in the warmup. but we were still seeing a loss of angles from the top, followed by a re-setting of the angles around hip high before impact. he said he had a very hard drill we could work on to improve sequencing, and start to feel what it's like to maintain the angles in transition from the top.

the drill wasn't anything revolutionary. a lot of us have seen it before and probably tried it (i certainly have). start the backswing, and before you get to the top start to initiate the downswing by releasing the lead hip, even as you're still turning to the top. it's a way to engage the lower body earlier, and shallow the club. pretty standard stuff.

the difference was we started with a very small swing. like, start to unwind the hips when the clubhead has only tracked back to just past ankle high. and keep effort at 20%ish.

it really didn't end up being that hard. i felt like i caught on pretty quickly. but i was mostly arms in the backswing, so we engaged the chest a little more in the move away from the ball, and tried to get that lead hip opening a little earlier. as it felt more and more natural, i was able to just let the club fall into the backswing with no throw. we added one more feel of getting the right elbow more in front of my chest in that transition, which helped the club shallow more and get the path a little more from the inside.

we got some insane numbers with these short, chippy little 7-irons. speed was hovering in the mid-high 70s. attack was living around 4-6 down, path 2-4 from the inside. the smash was nuts, though, as high as 1.49! that's just bonkers. and the contact was dimed on almost every single shot. just felt so powerful off the face.

by the end he wanted to length the backswing just a little so we could try to get to 80mph. it took a bit, but we got there. and lived there very consistently. so ty said my best full swing before we started this drill was 82mph, so let's see if we can get to 82 with the chippy, no-effort 7i. again, took a few swings but we got there. then he said let's go for 85! took a few swings, and got to 84.5 with carry 170 on a swing that felt hip-high, pretty much no effort.

this will be a huge focus for me in my practice. really trying to get the lower body to lead the downswing, so the club can just fall into transition with no "throw" from the top. if i can get this move into my driver, this could get really fun.
 
McLovin said:
what a lesson today. ty said he wanted to work on something, but was a little hesitant because i wasn't swinging badly. he liked that my iron swing path was from the inside, and i was hitting high push draws in the warmup. but we were still seeing a loss of angles from the top, followed by a re-setting of the angles around hip high before impact. he said he had a very hard drill we could work on to improve sequencing, and start to feel what it's like to maintain the angles in transition from the top.

the drill wasn't anything revolutionary. a lot of us have seen it before and probably tried it (i certainly have). start the backswing, and before you get to the top start to initiate the downswing by releasing the lead hip, even as you're still turning to the top. it's a way to engage the lower body earlier, and shallow the club. pretty standard stuff.

the difference was we started with a very small swing. like, start to unwind the hips when the clubhead has only tracked back to just past ankle high. and keep effort at 20%ish.

it really didn't end up being that hard. i felt like i caught on pretty quickly. but i was mostly arms in the backswing, so we engaged the chest a little more in the move away from the ball, and tried to get that lead hip opening a little earlier. as it felt more and more natural, i was able to just let the club fall into the backswing with no throw. we added one more feel of getting the right elbow more in front of my chest in that transition, which helped the club shallow more and get the path a little more from the inside.

we got some insane numbers with these short, chippy little 7-irons. speed was hovering in the mid-high 70s. attack was living around 4-6 down, path 2-4 from the inside. the smash was nuts, though, as high as 1.49! that's just bonkers. and the contact was dimed on almost every single shot. just felt so powerful off the face.

by the end he wanted to length the backswing just a little so we could try to get to 80mph. it took a bit, but we got there. and lived there very consistently. so ty said my best full swing before we started this drill was 82mph, so let's see if we can get to 82 with the chippy, no-effort 7i. again, took a few swings but we got there. then he said let's go for 85! took a few swings, and got to 84.5 with carry 170 on a swing that felt hip-high, pretty much no effort.

this will be a huge focus for me in my practice. really trying to get the lower body to lead the downswing, so the club can just fall into transition with no "throw" from the top. if i can get this move into my driver, this could get really fun.
Click to expand...
I love everything about this post. Soup to nuts. And I'm picturing it loosening/softening those wrists at the top if you keep those feels going because you can't lead like that without it wanting to happen a little naturally just for comfort and consistency. I'm excited for you right now.
 
McLovin said:
by the end he wanted to length the backswing just a little so we could try to get to 80mph. it took a bit, but we got there. and lived there very consistently. so ty said my best full swing before we started this drill was 82mph, so let's see if we can get to 82 with the chippy, no-effort 7i. again, took a few swings but we got there. then he said let's go for 85! took a few swings, and got to 84.5 with carry 170 on a swing that felt hip-high, pretty much no effort.
Click to expand...
So this is something that's been bugging me a lot lately. If you can produce repeatable, desired results from a swing where you arms get just to parallel, at what point do you chance screwing that up by trying to get a longer swing? Or is that easy for most people to do?
 
JonMA1 said:
So this is something that's been bugging me a lot lately. If you can produce repeatable, desired results from a swing where you arms get just to parallel, at what point do you chance screwing that up by trying to get a longer swing? Or is that easy for most people to do?
Click to expand...

that’s a good question. there’s definitely a balance between too short, and too long. the player’s swing dna probably dictates that. i need a little more backswing, but apparently not that much more.
 
worked on the drill again this morning with a 9i. the distance is just bonkers. i need work a little more on keeping the right arm in front of me, that produces the best start line and also has the sweet compression feel at impact. i want to spend a little more time on it, then see how it bodes with driver!
 
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