My Golf lessons and progress

[Dawg 1]

Just wanted to share what I am currently working on with my swing. A little about me I am 37 years old been golfing on and off for about 17 years or so, currently a 5 handicap, goal is to get to a 2 or 3 by years end. I have had 2 lessons prior to this but nothing this in depth. It is amazing to actually see on video what you are doing wrong compared to what i think I'm doing in my mind.
Main thing we are working on is to try and keep the ball from going right. Maybe this could possibly help some of you who have some of the same tendencies as i do. So far i am very satisfied with what we have accomplished so far.
first video was January 31. Second video was February 14

 

[snafu]

good stuff keep up the good work

 

[93civiccpe]

Swing looks better than mine and I'll be following along. It's impressive to be a 5 handicap with only a few lessons.. ?

 

[WILDTHING]

Imho , I'd have worked on your grip posture and setup first then seen how that affected your swing. He's right that you look too bent over because a vertical line drawn from your armpits should just pass through the front of your knees and through the instep of your feet. Shawn Clement says that you should feel as if the arches of your feet act like suction cups . From what I've seen so far , its your pivot that needs working on because your really turning your upper body against a restricted pelvic rotation (ie. x-factor) and that isn't helped by no apparent flare in your feet at setup. Because your not pivoting very well you end up using your arms more , especially your right arm to power your downswing , your right arm is applying too much push across the shaft which causes an early release (ie. uncocking of your left wrist) . Because your lower body and upper body pivot are not very efficient , your left shoulder socket stalls , your right shoulder socket doesn't move downplane enough (ie. closer to the ball) therefore you have no option but to straighten your right arm and wrist to get the clubhead to the ball . Combine that with a stalled left arm (because your upper body pivot has also stalled) , and you get that bent left wrist at impact and a clubhead 'flip/roll' through impact.

Your instructor seems to think using Tiger Woods hand release action is a good model to base an improvement on , but I tend to disagree. If you look at the hand release actions of the top most accurate drivers on the PGA tour , many of them use a 'Drive-Hold' hand release action and don't actively 'rotate' their forearms after impact for several inches after the ball is struck. They actually rotate their whole lead arm but only enough to keep the clubface square to the clubhead path for several inches, then they might rotate their forearms to help release their postural angles safely in the follow-through.

Here is Phil Mickelson trying to actively rotate his lead forearm through impact (just like your instructor advised) but his driving accuracy is not very good and one needs impeccable timing to square the clubface at impact (because actively rotating your lead forearm through impact creates a high ROC - 'rate of closure' of your clubface). Even Phil , with fantastic talent can find the squaring of the clubface difficult to time when he's actively rotating his forearm through impact.

But stick with your golf lessons if your finding an improvement but also be aware that a 'roller' hand release can have its own pitfalls if your timing is off





You can see the moving image in the url below (just scroll down until you find it)

Why do some professional golfers

perfectgolfswingreview.net

 

[WILDTHING]

Here are examples of 'Drive-Holders' . These are golfers who do not actively rotate their forearms through impact but who minimise the rotation of their whole lead arm in conjunction with their upper body pivot to keep the clubface square to the club path (this is NOT trying to steer a square clubface down the target line).

Stenson



Thomas



DJ

 

[MarMill]

Thanks for posting your lesson videos. Always interesting to see. As stated previously Tiger has some of the best hands ever. I have seen more guys trying to keep hands stable and rotate through hitting area from tv and stuff. Or so it seems to me. Good luck on your journey!

 

[93civiccpe]

Crazy to see the variance in the guys like Els who have very active hands / forearms versus the guys who are more passive through impact.

 

[WILDTHING]

Crazy to see the variance in the guys like Els who have very active hands / forearms versus the guys who are more passive through impact.

Ernie does have more active hand release than some others but he's a marginal Drive Holder. Check out this video and look at a frame post impact (around 0:21) and you will notice that the clubshaft has not bypassed his left arm (ie. look at clubhead about 8-12 inches past impact). If he had flipped through, the clubshaft (from a face-on view) would be ahead of his left arm.

Also, if he had not flipped and just rotated his forearm (or his whole left arm ) too actively through impact , the clubshaft again would again have bypassed his left arm (if he had an angle between the lead arm and clubshaft approaching impact)

Both flipping and excessive forearm/arm rotation through impact will create a high ROC , and you are more highly reliant on your timing to square the clubface (or whatever clubface orientation you are intending) at impact.

 

[93civiccpe]

Ernie does have more active hand release than some others but he's a marginal Drive Holder. Check out this video and look at a frame post impact (around 0:21) and you will notice that the clubshaft has not bypassed his left arm (ie. look at clubhead about 8-12 inches past impact). If he had flipped through, the clubshaft (from a face-on view) would be ahead of his left arm.

Also, if he had not flipped and just rotated his forearm (or his whole left arm ) too actively through impact , the clubshaft again would again have bypassed his left arm (if he had an angle between the lead arm and clubshaft approaching impact)

Both flipping and excessive forearm/arm rotation through impact will create a high ROC , and you are more highly reliant on your timing to square the clubface (or whatever clubface orientation you are intending) at impact.

I wonder if a previous coach was using an older video as in the one he used for coaching Els seemed to rotate through a lot more but that video above looks a lot more passive (and more what I'm trying for now).

 

[Dawg 1]

It has been a little while since I have updated. This was from back in early april a few things me and my instructor are currently working on
1st. My posture is still not where i want it. My arm pits are way out over my toes, need to get them more over the balls of my feet or just to the inside
2nd. Right elbow is still flying out way to much in the backswing. Want to get it more in front of my rib cage
3rd. I am early extending into the ball. my head is falling back and my butt is moving toward the ball in the downswing
4th. Trying to clear my hips more in the down swing

 

[Dawg 1]

These 2 videos are from yesterday May 24. My posture is more to where i want still not perfect. Right elbow is flying out but not quite as bad as before. I haven't been early extending near as much, my head is not going away from the ball near as much in the downswing. Still have a lot of work to do

Not going to lie this has been a real struggle the past couple months. I did not realize when i started it was going to be this tough to change a few things in my swing. My goals of dropping down to a 2 or 3 handicap by the end of year is absolutely not going to happen. For right now I am not even worried about scores on the course, just going to focus on getting a more consistent swing

 

[WILDTHING]

These 2 videos are from yesterday May 24. My posture is more to where i want still not perfect. Right elbow is flying out but not quite as bad as before. I haven't been early extending near as much, my head is not going away from the ball near as much in the downswing. Still have a lot of work to do

Not going to lie this has been a real struggle the past couple months. I did not realize when i started it was going to be this tough to change a few things in my swing. My goals of dropping down to a 2 or 3 handicap by the end of year is absolutely not going to happen. For right now I am not even worried about scores on the course, just going to focus on getting a more consistent swing

Imho, you need to get your posture and set up to be a little more athletic plus you look as if your arms are full of tension (you obviously don't feel comfortable with your new swing mechanics).

I have an opinion about what could be causing problems but you need your pro to show you 'how' to fix it. Note that I am over 60 , a 15 handicapper and only play a few games a year (without touching a club for 8 months at a time but still score between 81 and 85 most of the time). I've been studying golf biomechanics for over 3 years now but all I have is an opinion about cause and effect (just like many other golf instructors).

Your feet are dead square and I think your just turning your upper body over a restricted pelvis. You have what is called a centralised backswing , where your thoracic section of your spine has arched towards the target and I think you have too much weight pressure over your left leg and forefoot at the top of your backswing and early downswing . In the early downswing by the time your left arm is parallel to ground (P5) , you have too much pressure on your left leg/hip while your knee (and possibly left hip) have drifted outside your left foot . That will seize up your left hip/knee and you will be unable to freely rotate them out of the way of your swinging arms . The only way you can get the club to the ball is early release and early extend with a flip roll hand release action.

Best wishes and hope you achieve your goals.

 

[Dawg 1]

Imho, you need to get your posture and set up to be a little more athletic plus you look as if your arms are full of tension (you obviously don't feel comfortable with your new swing mechanics).

I have an opinion about what could be causing problems but you need your pro to show you 'how' to fix it. Note that I am over 60 , a 15 handicapper and only play a few games a year (without touching a club for 8 months at a time but still score between 81 and 85 most of the time). I've been studying golf biomechanics for over 3 years now but all I have is an opinion about cause and effect (just like many other golf instructors).

Your feet are dead square and I think your just turning your upper body over a restricted pelvis. You have what is called a centralised backswing , where your thoracic section of your spine has arched towards the target and I think you have too much weight pressure over your left leg and forefoot at the top of your backswing and early downswing . In the early downswing by the time your left arm is parallel to ground (P5) , you have too much pressure on your left leg/hip while your knee (and possibly left hip) have drifted outside your left foot . That will seize up your left hip/knee and you will be unable to freely rotate them out of the way of your swinging arms . The only way you can get the club to the ball is early release and early extend with a flip roll hand release action.

Best wishes and hope you achieve your goals.

Went to see a different coach for my last lesson. He is the one wanting to change my posture. The way he wants me to setup is the same way George Gankas teaches his students. And no I am not comfortable with the changes. Ive been swinging the same way for pretty much 20 years.

 

[SkidPlate]

If you look at the hand release actions of the top most accurate drivers on the PGA tour , many of them use a 'Drive-Hold' hand release action and don't actively 'rotate' their forearms...

They are among the longest hitters too. I refer to it as "square to path", which is why I chose the screen pic I did. At that position in the follow through, it feels like the right palm is facing up, gently pitching the ball down range. Rolling the wrists has been around a long time as a fix to get the club face square, but I'll never go back to that; there's just no comparison in consistent quality shots.

 

[OldandStiff]

Man, this is interesting thread.

Watching things like this lead me to strong feelings that if I took lessons with some of the same goals in mind, I would get worse, and injured.

Keep fighting the fight man. It's tough making changes to things deep in the memory. I hope some of what you're working on start to click for you.

Why the instructor switch for the last one?

 

[Luchnia]

Crazy to see the variance in the guys like Els who have very active hands / forearms versus the guys who are more passive through impact.

A very good point you have made!

Just goes to show there is no "right" way to do the swing. How many coaches teach that Moe Norman's swing is the right swing? Not so many. Yet hard to argue how well he could hit a golf ball.

No doubt Moe hitting thousands of balls a day from his youth ingrained something into his mind that worked great for him just like other golfers that work hard at their game. Rory comes to mind hitting over a million balls a year with a workout routine that would wear out the average Joe golfer.

If anything I have learned in my short tenure learning and watching golfers is basically learn the basic fundamentals (you are swinging an object at another stationary object below you) and then find what works best for you that is repeatable time and time again.

Reminds me of hitting a nail with a hammer, the hammer has to hit the nail correctly just as the golf club has to hit the ball correctly. One can do a somersault with the hammer before hitting the nail if they want, but they better hit the nail right if they want to drive it.

 

[Dawg 1]

Man, this is interesting thread.

Watching things like this lead me to strong feelings that if I took lessons with some of the same goals in mind, I would get worse, and injured.

Keep fighting the fight man. It's tough making changes to things deep in the memory. I hope some of what you're working on start to click for you.

Why the instructor switch for the last one?

Wanted to get a different opinion on what exactly I needed to be working on. And glad I did, I like this guy. The problem is he is in Jacksonville Fl and is around 2 1/2 hours away. I think realistically to get better I need to be seeing him once a week to truly get better

Golf game has definitely got worse. it’s not easy making changes to something you been doing for 20 years

 

[SkidPlate]

Went to see a different coach for my last lesson. He is the one wanting to change my posture.

Have any of your coaches talked about your hips at set up? Your tush is sticking out, which creates an inward bow in your lower spine, and makes it near impossible to get into a balanced, athletic position.
If you look at most any of the great golfers dtl at set up, the lower 2/3 of their spine is a near straight line, hips under the spine.
The remedy is easy, and will improve your normal standing posture as well. Just roll the hips under and forward (every man knows how to do that ). Then flex the knees and "sit down" to the ball, and in your case, stand closer to the ball (a few inches). You will feel the quads and glutes engaged, and you won't feel like you have to bend over to the ball. Feel your weight centered over your arches.
With a bowed lower spine, rotation is restricted, and you are causing the L5 L4 region to carry much of the weight of the upper body. With a straight spine, upper body weight is carried completely with the hips, and you free up the entire spine to get into the rotation act.
Glutes and quads stabilize the lower body. Yours isn't. You are in a reverse pivot, making it impossible to get your lower body into the shot on time. Watch face on when you start your down swing, your head moves toward the target, in front of the ball, and stays there at impact.

That's caused by lower body issues.
Note the screen grab below. In that position, all you need to change is flex your right knee back to near it's starting position. That will automatically bring your head back, out of reverse position, into hitting position, which is behind the ball. If I could reach into the screen and pull your right knee toward me, that's what I'd do to show you it's proper position, and have you feel how it changes where your upper body goes.
My comments wouldn't be complete without one more item. You'd have more power from about the position shown in my screen grab below than you'll get from your top position. Much more. Power is the ability to change directions instantaneously, not how far back you swing the club.

 

[Dawg 1]

Have any of your coaches talked about your hips at set up? Your tush is sticking out, which creates an inward bow in your lower spine, and makes it near impossible to get into a balanced, athletic position.

Yes. But for whatever reason I am finding this hard to do

 

[SkidPlate]

A good physical therapist might be the place to start then. He/she can help you learn how to "tuck the tush". It's near impossible to engage the leg muscles correctly otherwise. I learned this from a PT years ago, and it saved my lower back.

 

[G-Man]

Have any of your coaches talked about your hips at set up? Your tush is sticking out, which creates an inward bow in your lower spine, and makes it near impossible to get into a balanced, athletic position.
If you look at most any of the great golfers dtl at set up, the lower 2/3 of their spine is a near straight line, hips under the spine.
The remedy is easy, and will improve your normal standing posture as well. Just roll the hips under and forward (every man knows how to do that ). Then flex the knees and "sit down" to the ball, and in your case, stand closer to the ball (a few inches). You will feel the quads and glutes engaged, and you won't feel like you have to bend over to the ball. Feel your weight centered over your arches.
With a bowed lower spine, rotation is restricted, and you are causing the L5 L4 region to carry much of the weight of the upper body. With a straight spine, upper body weight is carried completely with the hips, and you free up the entire spine to get into the rotation act.
Glutes and quads stabilize the lower body. Yours isn't. You are in a reverse pivot, making it impossible to get your lower body into the shot on time. Watch face on when you start your down swing, your head moves toward the target, in front of the ball, and stays there at impact.
View attachment 8945879
That's caused by lower body issues.
Note the screen grab below. In that position, all you need to change is flex your right knee back to near it's starting position. That will automatically bring your head back, out of reverse position, into hitting position, which is behind the ball. If I could reach into the screen and pull your right knee toward me, that's what I'd do to show you it's proper position, and have you feel how it changes where your upper body goes.
My comments wouldn't be complete without one more item. You'd have more power from about the position shown in my screen grab below than you'll get from your top position. Much more. Power is the ability to change directions instantaneously, not how far back you swing the club.
View attachment 8945876

Working on same thing with shortening backswing and reducing a somewhat reverse pivotbin my swing. It will feel like 3/4 but generate more synchronized swing leading to more power and distance.

 

[OldandStiff]

Wanted to get a different opinion on what exactly I needed to be working on. And glad I did, I like this guy. The problem is he is in Jacksonville Fl and is around 2 1/2 hours away. I think realistically to get better I need to be seeing him once a week to truly get better

Golf game has definitely got worse. it’s not easy making changes to something you been doing for 20 years

I'm glad you changed, too. Sucks they one you like better isn't closer.