My track man gapping session today

Nippon Shafts

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
I went to do a gapping session today (from a fitting studio like TXG) and to get the lie and lofts checked on my Mizuno JPX 921 tours SEL. I had been having some mixed results on the course and was starting to doubt my original fitting from the fitting day by somewhere else. The reason for this was I am typically a 1 degree upright player and I was fit to 1.5 flat. So my concern was my original fitting spec was off the mark. First things first the lie and lofts of my irons were all over the shop and I was shocked at the variance between irons. I was fitted to KBS $ taper taper shafts 120 in stiff flex. The fitter did advise that I was on the line between x flex and the s flex and decided to go the s flex, as well you know we are not getting any younger and I could not imagine my swing speed getting faster. I ended up getting my lies and loft sorted and did a gapping session. The fitter/pro/tech (not sure what the correct term for them is) did suggest i try a x flex and see how it would match up. So he grabbed his fitting 921 tour iron popped in a shaft and bent it to one flat like my irons and i hit a few. I have attached a screen shot of my first swing with the x flex shaft. I would be interest to see whether these numbers are where I should be or am I missing out so to speak. Are these numbers about what I should be getting? Enough spin/launch/descent angle? The reason I ask this is that I do not want to go to the cost of making the change if the results/numbers are not optimal. Before you comment yes the swing patch and face angle is not a misread I just put a really good swing on it and the fitter said he only see's that like once every 6 months or so. I had to get a picture of it not just for the zero zero but it was the first shot with the x flex shaft he gave me and would be a good indicator of performance it was providing. Please have a look and advise if you think the numbers are good enough to warrant a change and if the spin/launch etc is where it should be.
 

Attachments

YukonLiving

Captain of Tundra
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
7,878
Reaction score
4,414
Location
Yukon Territory, Canada
How did the rest of the session go once you had the S-flex irons sorted to your expected loft/lies?
 

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
How did the rest of the session go once you had the S-flex irons sorted to your expected loft/lies?
The rest of the session was okay. My ball striking was a bit better. The dispersion was not as good as the x flex shaft, but distance wise not a great deal different. I think there may be more control for me with the heavier and x flex shaft. I am not sure if that little bit better dispersion from one session is enough to make a change. I was more concerned with the actual trackman numbers. I want to be sure that they are pretty much as good as I can get for my swing speed and club delivery. No point changing if the change isn't optimal.
 

jfrigo1003

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
1,974
Reaction score
1,536
Location
Lemont, Illinois
Handicap
5.4
The rest of the session was okay. My ball striking was a bit better. The dispersion was not as good as the x flex shaft, but distance wise not a great deal different. I think there may be more control for me with the heavier and x flex shaft. I am not sure if that little bit better dispersion from one session is enough to make a change. I was more concerned with the actual trackman numbers. I want to be sure that they are pretty much as good as I can get for my swing speed and club delivery. No point changing if the change isn't optimal.
Cool thing about KBS is they make a S+ for almost all of their shafts. The $-taper at 125g S+ is probably your sweet spot, although that 130g X looks good

I can definitely attest to this year playing lighter shafts that my dispersion dropped.
 

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
Thats is where my concern is, that the dispersion will suffer a little to much from the shaft being a little light and down a flex. I played in an ambrose today and the irons were okay. They are better now the lie and loft has been adjusted but I just cannot help but wonder if going up in weight and flex will make a big enough improvement to warrant a change.
 

jfrigo1003

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
1,974
Reaction score
1,536
Location
Lemont, Illinois
Handicap
5.4
Thats is where my concern is, that the dispersion will suffer a little to much from the shaft being a little light and down a flex. I played in an ambrose today and the irons were okay. They are better now the lie and loft has been adjusted but I just cannot help but wonder if going up in weight and flex will make a big enough improvement to warrant a change.
its hard for us golfers, but you need patience to make a final decision. I got custom fit this year for new irons and I sucked the first few months compared to the project x 6.5 125g irons I was used to for 5 years. Even at 112mph swing speed, my fitter and I found by dropping to 115g x flex shafts I picked up over 9 yards carry with my irons while actually increasing spin a touch

I made the mistake by constantly tinkering things and using my old set of irons that were heavier. Once I committed to the lighter set-up things slowly got better. If you're fortunate enough to be able to hit balls at the driving range and get in to a rhythm, youll get used to the lighter irons alot quicker
 

Cjgolf25

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
2,375
Reaction score
119
Location
Lakeland, FL
Handicap
14.9
Did the fitter talked to you about and/or have you consider soft stepping the shafts?
 

LSMO

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,906
Reaction score
647
Location
Lee's Summit, MO
Handicap
2.2
Landing angle should be close to 45 degrees which that is, peak height with 6iron should be around your swing speed which it is, spin is good. Numbers are great. Question is can you swing the heavier shafts over a full 18 holes? That’s something you’ll have to decide. I was in this exact same situation, but I found my self tired when from swinging at fitting (trying to create the best numbers possible). Realized to myself I rarely play a iron shot to it’s maxed out number or swing all out. I ended up with kbs stiff 120. Like the feel better and if I want to step on one they are still stable enough to do so. I think the only other thing to consider is not the flex, but the weight of the shaft. The weight may help in your swing sequence.
 

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
Landing angle should be close to 45 degrees which that is, peak height with 6iron should be around your swing speed which it is, spin is good. Numbers are great. Question is can you swing the heavier shafts over a full 18 holes? That’s something you’ll have to decide. I was in this exact same situation, but I found my self tired when from swinging at fitting (trying to create the best numbers possible). Realized to myself I rarely play a iron shot to it’s maxed out number or swing all out. I ended up with kbs stiff 120. Like the feel better and if I want to step on one they are still stable enough to do so. I think the only other thing to consider is not the flex, but the weight of the shaft. The weight may help in your swing sequence.
I wouldn’t suggest matching peak height to swing speed. You can loosely use ball speed to match peak height, but even then, use it loosely.
 

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
I went to do a gapping session today (from a fitting studio like TXG) and to get the lie and lofts checked on my Mizuno JPX 921 tours SEL. I had been having some mixed results on the course and was starting to doubt my original fitting from the fitting day by somewhere else. The reason for this was I am typically a 1 degree upright player and I was fit to 1.5 flat. So my concern was my original fitting spec was off the mark. First things first the lie and lofts of my irons were all over the shop and I was shocked at the variance between irons. I was fitted to KBS $ taper taper shafts 120 in stiff flex. The fitter did advise that I was on the line between x flex and the s flex and decided to go the s flex, as well you know we are not getting any younger and I could not imagine my swing speed getting faster. I ended up getting my lies and loft sorted and did a gapping session. The fitter/pro/tech (not sure what the correct term for them is) did suggest i try a x flex and see how it would match up. So he grabbed his fitting 921 tour iron popped in a shaft and bent it to one flat like my irons and i hit a few. I have attached a screen shot of my first swing with the x flex shaft. I would be interest to see whether these numbers are where I should be or am I missing out so to speak. Are these numbers about what I should be getting? Enough spin/launch/descent angle? The reason I ask this is that I do not want to go to the cost of making the change if the results/numbers are not optimal. Before you comment yes the swing patch and face angle is not a misread I just put a really good swing on it and the fitter said he only see's that like once every 6 months or so. I had to get a picture of it not just for the zero zero but it was the first shot with the x flex shaft he gave me and would be a good indicator of performance it was providing. Please have a look and advise if you think the numbers are good enough to warrant a change and if the spin/launch etc is where it should be.

I can see where someone would say you’re in between flexes, but from looking at the numbers, I’d be keeping you in S flex. I may suggest hard stepping an S flex to get you in between flexes while maintaining the 120g weight. It’s tough to say from only seeing that screenshot and not seeing your swing.

What ball were you using, was TrackMan on normalize and if so to what settings? One thing to keep in mind is sometimes the mats can reduce spin. I typically see a small drop of around 500 rpms if it’s a decent mat, some of the newer ones are almost spot on to what you’d see outdoors (assuming the mat is similar to the playing conditions in your area).
 

LSMO

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,906
Reaction score
647
Location
Lee's Summit, MO
Handicap
2.2
Just g
I wouldn’t suggest matching peak height to swing speed. You can loosely use ball speed to match peak height, but even then, use it loosely.
just going off what Ian Frazier suggested to me when he went over my fitting numbers. Higher is fine but minimum that’s a good gauge according to him for players irons
 

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
Landing angle should be close to 45 degrees which that is, peak height with 6iron should be around your swing speed which it is, spin is good. Numbers are great. Question is can you swing the heavier shafts over a full 18 holes? That’s something you’ll have to decide. I was in this exact same situation, but I found my self tired when from swinging at fitting (trying to create the best numbers possible). Realized to myself I rarely play a iron shot to it’s maxed out number or swing all out. I ended up with kbs stiff 120. Like the feel better and if I want to step on one they are still stable enough to do so. I think the only other thing to consider is not the flex, but the weight of the shaft. The weight may help in your swing sequence.
Some really good in put and is something I should be considering. I will say I was swinging the club close to flat out during the fitting. I am not sure if I do swing that hard on the course or not. I know if I am on the range i tend to swing at around 85%. Fatigue on the course is a real thing. It is something that was not on my radar at all. Its something I will watch for over the next few rounds and see if I do notice my SS and tempo changing as I get to the last couple of holes. Thank you for your input it has helped.
 

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
I can see where someone would say you’re in between flexes, but from looking at the numbers, I’d be keeping you in S flex. I may suggest hard stepping an S flex to get you in between flexes while maintaining the 120g weight. It’s tough to say from only seeing that screenshot and not seeing your swing.

What ball were you using, was TrackMan on normalize and if so to what settings? One thing to keep in mind is sometimes the mats can reduce spin. I typically see a small drop of around 500 rpms if it’s a decent mat, some of the newer ones are almost spot on to what you’d see outdoors (assuming the mat is similar to the playing conditions in your area).
I was using prov 1balls hitting from an bay outdoors. I am not sure on what trackman settings were used. As I could see the ball flight and there were distance markers there the numbers would be as near to perfect as they could be. The mat was in pretty good condition, so i am hoping a bit more spin can be achieved the x flex. I would like to see 6000 on a 6 iron as I was advised once that 1000 rpm multiplied by the club number is where about your spin should be.
 

LSMO

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,906
Reaction score
647
Location
Lee's Summit, MO
Handicap
2.2
Some really good in put and is something I should be considering. I will say I was swinging the club close to flat out during the fitting. I am not sure if I do swing that hard on the course or not. I know if I am on the range i tend to swing at around 85%. Fatigue on the course is a real thing. It is something that was not on my radar at all. Its something I will watch for over the next few rounds and see if I do notice my SS and tempo changing as I get to the last couple of holes. Thank you for your input it has helped.
no problem, let us know how it goes!
 

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
I was using prov 1balls hitting from an bay outdoors. I am not sure on what trackman settings were used. As I could see the ball flight and there were distance markers there the numbers would be as near to perfect as they could be. The mat was in pretty good condition, so i am hoping a bit more spin can be achieved the x flex. I would like to see 6000 on a 6 iron as I was advised once that 1000 rpm multiplied by the club number is where about your spin should be.
Your numbers that you posted show a peak height of around 88 feet, coming in at 44* landing angle with 5500 spin. If I had to get really picky, I would want that peak height to be higher. You still would have the option to play it lower when needed, but getting that peak up to the 100-110 foot mark would be ideal.
 

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
Just g


just going off what Ian Frazier suggested to me when he went over my fitting numbers. Higher is fine but minimum that’s a good gauge according to him for players irons
I've heard him say that a few times but last time he mentioned that he also tagged it with "for certain speeds". Once we get in the higher speeds we want that peak heigh to be higher. Average PGA 7 iron swing speed is around 92 and peak height around 120 ft. Once we get in the lower swing speeds around 70 mph with a 6 iron, we can start to match them up more. But there is separation when speed starts to climb.
 

LSMO

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,906
Reaction score
647
Location
Lee's Summit, MO
Handicap
2.2
I've heard him say that a few times but last time he mentioned that he also tagged it with "for certain speeds". Once we get in the higher speeds we want that peak heigh to be higher. Average PGA 7 iron swing speed is around 92 and peak height around 120 ft. Once we get in the lower swing speeds around 70 mph with a 6 iron, we can start to match them up more. But there is separation when speed starts to climb.
Actually average peak height for pga tour is 96 feet, with 90mph swing. Top 10 in the world might be 120. He’s not far off from tour standard. Especially adding in 500rpm hitting off real grass he will gain a few feet
 

Attachments

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
Actually average peak height for pga tour is 96 feet, with 90mph swing. Top 10 in the world might be 120. He’s not far off from tour standard. Especially adding in 500rpm hitting off real grass he will gain a few feet
Those numbers are from a few years back. There are a few statistical studies going around that are showing with the modern day irons that are built to fly higher with less spin, peak height are on the rise. We are also seeing PGA Tour players gaining some speeds, however, I meant to type 6 iron, not 7 iron (my fault). True Spec released a study showing their optimal number with 6 iron speeds of 90mph + are 110+ feet peak height.
 

Lefty JB

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
35
Your numbers that you posted show a peak height of around 88 feet, coming in at 44* landing angle with 5500 spin. If I had to get really picky, I would want that peak height to be higher. You still would have the option to play it lower when needed, but getting that peak up to the 100-110 foot mark would be ideal.
I think increasing the peak height would make a difference. I am not sure how I would do that. I guess i could weaken the loft by a degree to help with a touch more spin? It might even help peak height.
 

Thornton Melon

Active member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
329
Reaction score
34
Location
Hopefully not a bunker
Handicap
36
I'll take a slightly different angle here... It's in your head, so I'd probably err towards spending the money to what you think is right even if it's close. Right now you're feeling you aren't fit correctly. It has to affect you.

Save the pulls, put in the x and see if it gets better. If it isn't right sell the x and you'll be out a few bucks but have peace of mind.
 

Smiter

I'm not a Club Pro
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
7,861
Reaction score
4,077
Location
Ontario, OH
Handicap
Life RN
Personally, I was playing R-Flex 105g steel shaft irons when I was swinging 4i north of 112CHS (133 with driver).

As a super high launch player the lag delofted it a couple degrees and made it easier to sense where I needed to be in the swing.

I’d be pressed to hit 112 with driver now a couple years later despite weighing 80 pounds less.

So I have switched to graphite MMT 86g S-Flex. In a set of irons that I don’t recall if it’s 5-PW or 4-GW or anywhere in between, lol. Tuesday I’ll be surprised. It didn’t really matter. They’re probably too long for my needs so it’s going to be fun posting about the stupid distance I just hit one OOB with.

I will share my results with the forum of course. Old guy, transitioning from long drive to golf without any long drive left.

But that don’t mean I won’t try! This will be a fun experiment in mechanical advantage.
 

Summit

Summit Golf Nashville
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
562
Reaction score
580
Location
Nashville, TN
I think increasing the peak height would make a difference. I am not sure how I would do that. I guess i could weaken the loft by a degree to help with a touch more spin? It might even help peak height.
I wouldn’t weaken the loft as a first resort. I like where your spin was at 5400 or so with a 6 iron! A ball change could make a huge difference in peak height. The ProV1 is a lower flying ball, so moving into something else will get the flight up (spin may go up as well).
 

Smiter

I'm not a Club Pro
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
7,861
Reaction score
4,077
Location
Ontario, OH
Handicap
Life RN
I wouldn’t weaken the loft as a first resort. I like where your spin was at 5400 or so with a 6 iron! A ball change could make a huge difference in peak height. The ProV1 is a lower flying ball, so moving into something else will get the flight up (spin may go up as well).
Oh I’m going to have to post some Trackman results for you to decode, lol.

Ohh, that one went 116.2 carry 114.9 total, 62% decent angle 8200 RPMs

Oh, that one went 116.2 carry 114.9 total 47% decent angle and 11500 RPM’s. And half the cover still on the club.

Or maybe I’ll show the 188 yard wedge, lol. It went a little low and left as you might imagine.

Enjoy having you around! Don’t mind my ramblings.
 

Chef23

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
1,862
Location
Massachusetts
Handicap
2.9
Those numbers are from a few years back. There are a few statistical studies going around that are showing with the modern day irons that are built to fly higher with less spin, peak height are on the rise. We are also seeing PGA Tour players gaining some speeds, however, I meant to type 6 iron, not 7 iron (my fault). True Spec released a study showing their optimal number with 6 iron speeds of 90mph + are 110+ feet peak height.
What would the optimal height with a SS of around 80 mph for a 6i be? I don’t have 6i numbers right now but I was averaging 80 feet on a 7i with a SS in the high 70s yesterday. I know I hit it a bit low. I am already playing Nippon 950s so I am playing a high launch shaft although it is in Apex 19s which have strong lofts.
 

Welcome to The Hackers Paradise

Don't just play golf, live it!

Register Log in
Top