Otis32

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as it stands ainge wants Turner, and Oladipo or Warren. Which is way to much for the production Hayward put out I agree with that.

and I strongly disagree with Turner putting the Celtics over the edge. It’s a well known secret in Indiana that Myles Turner isn’t very good, and gets too much credit for his 3 point shooting.
There is really no open secret other than most Pacer fans prefer certain type players and value certain stats. Myles doesn't fit the bill much like Rik Smits, Derrick McKey, George Hill and others over the years.

As far as the Celtics impact Turner anchored what was arguably the best defense in the league in 2017-18 and did it with a mediocre coach and the likes of Thad Young , Darren Collison, Corey Joseph & Oladipo (overrated defensively). Put Turner in Boston with the toughness & defensive versatility of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Tatum etc and that defense will be very special. There are two sides of the ball and Turner does a whole lot more than block shots on defense. Sure he struggles in the post with Embid & Drummond but so does 85% of the other centers in the league and Steven's is perfectly capable of using scheme to protect him from the quick whistles those guys get which never happened with McMillan.

Have been in enough of these online conversations over the last 2-3 years to know that we will just have to agree to disagree. I love Sabonis too and honestly think that Bjorkgren could find a way for them to coexist offensively beyond just Nate's plan to have Turner stand around the 3-point line and "space the floor". I believe there are only a couple of ways for small market teams to be championship relevant (especially now) and one of them is to be defensively elite. The Pacers are closer to achieving that with Myles around than they are with him gone.....
 

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I believe there are only a couple of ways for small market teams to be championship relevant (especially now) and one of them is to be defensively elite. The Pacers are closer to achieving that with Myles around than they are with him gone.....
I know that the Utah Jazz set out to be a contender by being an elite defensive team. Two years ago, they were, but they simply did not have enough fire power to get past a team like the Rockets (then). They traded away some of their core to obtain the firepower and were very mediocre defensively last year. Having reeled Derrick Favors back into the fold, it may get them enough of a defensive presence when the second unit is on the floor that they can contend. Time will tell.

I honestly wonder, though, if a small market team will ever win a championship again. Tim Duncan was such a unique player for the Spurs. He did not have an ego and stayed put. The Jazz almost did it with Malone and Stockton. The two stayed with the Jazz for 15 years (approx.) With the advent of the biggest stars forming super teams, which has happened again with the Lakers, the mountain to get over may be too much. I love basketball so much and the NBA game is played at such an elite level now, but it is so frustrating to see where the league has gone in some areas.
 

Afizzle2100

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There is really no open secret other than most Pacer fans prefer certain type players and value certain stats. Myles doesn't fit the bill much like Rik Smits, Derrick McKey, George Hill and others over the years.

As far as the Celtics impact Turner anchored what was arguably the best defense in the league in 2017-18 and did it with a mediocre coach and the likes of Thad Young , Darren Collison, Corey Joseph & Oladipo (overrated defensively). Put Turner in Boston with the toughness & defensive versatility of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Tatum etc and that defense will be very special. There are two sides of the ball and Turner does a whole lot more than block shots on defense. Sure he struggles in the post with Embid & Drummond but so does 85% of the other centers in the league and Steven's is perfectly capable of using scheme to protect him from the quick whistles those guys get which never happened with McMillan.

Have been in enough of these online conversations over the last 2-3 years to know that we will just have to agree to disagree. I love Sabonis too and honestly think that Bjorkgren could find a way for them to coexist offensively beyond just Nate's plan to have Turner stand around the 3-point line and "space the floor". I believe there are only a couple of ways for small market teams to be championship relevant (especially now) and one of them is to be defensively elite. The Pacers are closer to achieving that with Myles around than they are with him gone.....
I think we will have to agree to disagree lol, but that’s fine :thumb: You make some fair points, and I think Boston may be a better environment for him.

and I don’t think it’s I prefer a certain guy. I loved all the guys you just mentioned. I actually had been to Rik Smits house before
(humble brag:LOL:)

I just think knowing we are a small market team we like to know the big money spent is going towards foundation players. Myles is a solid player, and may fit better on a different team which is why I hope he is moved. I’m a big time UT fan so I’ve followed Myles essentially his whole career. he is not a commanding locker room voice, and not a foundation player. I’m fine with a center shooting a 3, but not exclusively. I don’t think that was Nates plan I think that’s Myles’ plan.

Watching the pacers every night though, I will never be convinced that Myles Turner is a good defender. Great shot blocker, and because of that can affect shots. But his 1 on 1 D is not good and it’s not just Embiid or Drummond. Plus that 2017 team, Oladipo was by no means overrated at that time defensively (although he certainly is now) and Thad Young doesn’t get enough credit for the energy of that unit. “New Nate” is cause for excitement and I can’t wait to see what the pacers can do for one more year with hopefully a healthy roster.

No animosity here, just like talking hoops!
 
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Afizzle2100

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I know that the Utah Jazz set out to be a contender by being an elite defensive team. Two years ago, they were, but they simply did not have enough fire power to get past a team like the Rockets (then). They traded away some of their core to obtain the firepower and were very mediocre defensively last year. Having reeled Derrick Favors back into the fold, it may get them enough of a defensive presence when the second unit is on the floor that they can contend. Time will tell.

I honestly wonder, though, if a small market team will ever win a championship again. Tim Duncan was such a unique player for the Spurs. He did not have an ego and stayed put. The Jazz almost did it with Malone and Stockton. The two stayed with the Jazz for 15 years (approx.) With the advent of the biggest stars forming super teams, which has happened again with the Lakers, the mountain to get over may be too much. I love basketball so much and the NBA game is played at such an elite level now, but it is so frustrating to see where the league has gone in some areas.
That will be for Giannis to decide! I don’t expect the players to be blindly loyal to a team that treats it like business, but the relationships between management and players in terms of that loyalty are seriously fragmented. We may see a small market team win a title before we see a top 10 player stay with a small market or any team for his whole career again which is crazy to think about. Dame Lillard in the small markets, and Steph in the large market. Maybe Luka, but other than that it looks pretty bleak.
 

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yeah the Dwight thing didn’t make sense until the Harrell thing came out. Lakers are winning free agency so far, no doubt IMO.

which bodonovic are they going after? Bojan or Bogdon?
When you include the Schroder draft night trade it appears they’ve really upgraded the roster, though I do wonder if they’ve downgraded their D - which was a key factor for them last year.
 

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Fred van vleet signed for another 4 years. Was sweating a little as looked like he was going to the Knicks. Now we need to do the same with Ibaka . Then next step add a superstar
 

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I know that the Utah Jazz set out to be a contender by being an elite defensive team. Two years ago, they were, but they simply did not have enough fire power to get past a team like the Rockets (then). They traded away some of their core to obtain the firepower and were very mediocre defensively last year. Having reeled Derrick Favors back into the fold, it may get them enough of a defensive presence when the second unit is on the floor that they can contend. Time will tell.

I honestly wonder, though, if a small market team will ever win a championship again. Tim Duncan was such a unique player for the Spurs. He did not have an ego and stayed put. The Jazz almost did it with Malone and Stockton. The two stayed with the Jazz for 15 years (approx.) With the advent of the biggest stars forming super teams, which has happened again with the Lakers, the mountain to get over may be too much. I love basketball so much and the NBA game is played at such an elite level now, but it is so frustrating to see where the league has gone in some areas.
I have a lot of respect for the Jazz. They & my Pacers have been among the best organizations in the NBA over the last 30-years. I liked that Jazz team from 2-years ago a lot and as a small market organization you build it and then hope to catch lightening in a bottle with the right player at the right time. Think Pistons in the early 2000's when they added Rasheed Wallace on the cheap or the Raptors in the Kawhi rental year.

I also believe both the Pacers & Jazz missed some big opportunities in the 90's during the 2-years Michael was out of the league and the year after he left. Timing with the team building & getting personnel right just didn't work out. I believe the 98 Pacer team would have won the championship at least one of the years in 94 & 95 and the 96/97 Jazz teams would have done the same. 1999 was funky for everybody because of the strike. By 2000 Shaq & Kobe were too good and the window for both teams had closed.

I do agree the idea of organizations drafting and keeping good Hall of Famers for their entire career is over. That is one way for a small market team to get the opportunity to win but the new "AAU" approach today's stars have adopted effectively kills that option. It is about their "brand" collecting championships now....
 

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I think we will have to agree to disagree lol, but that’s fine :thumb:

Watching the pacers every night though, I will never be convinced that Myles Turner is a good defender. Great shot blocker, and because of that can affect shots. But his 1 on 1 D is not good and it’s not just Embiid or Drummond. Plus that 2017 team, Oladipo was by no means overrated at that time defensively (although he certainly is now) and Thad Young doesn’t get enough credit for the energy of that unit. “New Nate” is cause for excitement and I can’t wait to see what the pacers can do for one more year with hopefully a healthy roster.

No animosity here, just like talking hoops!
No animosity here either. Been a Pacer fan since the ABA days and watch them religiously on League Pass since I moved to MN in the late 90's.

Just talking basketball as you say and if inclined take a look at some of the advanced defensive stats around opponents field goal % in the paint, defensive real plus/minus or defensive impact rating. Overall & year over year Myles consistently rates better than most Center's in the league not named Rudy Gobert. Another flawed but still underrated guy who has anchored some very good defenses as well.

Where do you stand on the IU/Purdue/Butler basketball debate? LOL.
 

Afizzle2100

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No animosity here either. Been a Pacer fan since the ABA days and watch them religiously on League Pass since I moved to MN in the late 90's.

Just talking basketball as you say and if inclined take a look at some of the advanced defensive stats around opponents field goal % in the paint, defensive real plus/minus or defensive impact rating. Overall & year over year Myles consistently rates better than most Center's in the league not named Rudy Gobert. Another flawed but still underrated guy who has anchored some very good defenses as well.

Where do you stand on the IU/Purdue/Butler basketball debate? LOL.
Hoosier grad here! I live and die by the Cream and Crimson nowadays. Played on the club team there during college, and my friend worked for the football team so we would sneak into assembly with his keys and get shots up at midnight some weekends. some of my best memories involve IU basketball.

With that being said I love all Indiana basketball. I’m from Muncie, the same town as Matt Painter, so I root for PU as long as they aren’t playing IU. And I’ve been to a couple Butler games including the Villanova upset a couple years back, and probably rooted for them more than IU during the Stevens era before I decided to go to school in Bloomington.

In terms of current state of all the teams. I think Lavell Jordan, and Painter are great coaches. Archie I’m not sold yet just because I feel like recruiting has taken a serious hit under him although he’s reeled in some big fish. Not sure if that was him or just the allure of playing in the home state. and obviously the team has under preformed massively. But that’s the same problems Crean had so maybe it’s a lil leftover culture. This year there is no excuses with Trayce, Kristian Lander, and returning production.

I thought Purdue should have done a lil better with Haas and Edwards, but they really played amazing that last tourney run just didn’t shake out for them. Edwards 40 some points was amazing. Not sure how the outlook for Purdue is but I know they have a couple pieces.

Butler has some great Indiana talent on the roster, but they just lost Kamar Baldwin and I’m not sure how they plan on replacing him as he was so high usage. But I’m sure they will be ranked around conference tourney time if there is one!
 

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Just talking basketball as you say and if inclined take a look at some of the advanced defensive stats around opponents field goal % in the paint, defensive real plus/minus or defensive impact rating. Overall & year over year Myles consistently rates better than most Center's in the league not named Rudy Gobert. Another flawed but still underrated guy who has anchored some very good defenses as well.
In terms of this, I know exactly what you mean. Advanced stats love Myles. 3 and “D”. Although the D is more of the shot blocking and altering, and less about on ball D. And I really do think that he’s a solid player. I just think the advanced stats are misleading when it comes to Myles.
 

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Haha at 200 million for Donovan.
 

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6ixOhFore

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Otis32

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Hoosier grad here! I live and die by the Cream and Crimson nowadays. Played on the club team there during college, and my friend worked for the football team so we would sneak into assembly with his keys and get shots up at midnight some weekends. some of my best memories involve IU basketball.

With that being said I love all Indiana basketball. I’m from Muncie, the same town as Matt Painter, so I root for PU as long as they aren’t playing IU. And I’ve been to a couple Butler games including the Villanova upset a couple years back, and probably rooted for them more than IU during the Stevens era before I decided to go to school in Bloomington.

In terms of current state of all the teams. I think Lavell Jordan, and Painter are great coaches. Archie I’m not sold yet just because I feel like recruiting has taken a serious hit under him although he’s reeled in some big fish. Not sure if that was him or just the allure of playing in the home state. and obviously the team has under preformed massively. But that’s the same problems Crean had so maybe it’s a lil leftover culture. This year there is no excuses with Trayce, Kristian Lander, and returning production.

I thought Purdue should have done a lil better with Haas and Edwards, but they really played amazing that last tourney run just didn’t shake out for them. Edwards 40 some points was amazing. Not sure how the outlook for Purdue is but I know they have a couple pieces.

Butler has some great Indiana talent on the roster, but they just lost Kamar Baldwin and I’m not sure how they plan on replacing him as he was so high usage. But I’m sure they will be ranked around conference tourney time if there is one!
Never went to any of the three schools (graduated ISU) but did go to summer basketball camp before college at Butler and loved being in Hinkle. During college in the 80's my friends and I would travel to a lot of ISU games and saw some pretty good mid-major tournament teams in Evansville, Ball State, Bradley, S. IL etc. Also got to see Austin Carr, Xavier McDaniel, Paul Pressey etc. come through Hulman Center when they played at Wichita St. & Tulsa.

In short I became a mid-major basketball junkie so after watching Butler lose on a last second shot to Florida in 2000 I was a permanent fan. Despite the disappointing loss to Duke in 2010 it has been a fun ride and super happy the Bulldogs are starting to recruit well in Indy. This year will be difficult but given the last two classes they should start a nice run competing for BE championships in 2022.

Always admired the Hoosiers program but since 2000 it seems like they miss on the coach and then under achieve with the talent they get in the door. Too soon to call it with Archie but getting those vibes again. Watched the Cody & Vic squad as religiously as I followed the Bulldogs for a couple years. Really disappointed when they got upset by Boeheim and that junk defense in '13. Still occasionally jump on Youtube and pull up the Crossroads Classic game that Hoosier team played with Butler in 2012. Absolute classic.

Took a while but have grown to really appreciate Painter over the years. He knows what players work in his program and goes and gets them. Always thought those Hummel, Johnson, Moore & Kramer teams were destined for a final four run but Hummel was just too fragile.

Nice Colt win today!!!
 

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Miami heat fans like....

 

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I am a little surprised at how many players coming off of their rookie contracts are being offered max deals, with a mini-super max kicker, if they make an All-NBA team. With the kicker, these players would make almost 200 million over the life of the contract. Silly money and there is no way all of those players will earn all of it, but wow.
 

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Haha at 200 million for Donovan.
The same haha would go to the same type of money being committed to Ingram, Tatum, Bam and Fox. Although I think Tatum has the highest ceiling and will make many All NBA teams, there is not one of those players that is transcendent. Of course most of them won’t make that money, because it requires them to be named All NBA, but it is ridiculous money. I would also say haha to paying Hayward 120 million for four years, Van Fleet 82 million for four years, Bogdonovic 72 million for four years and the list goes on.
 

Bernoulli

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The same haha would go to the same type of money being committed to Ingram, Tatum, Bam and Fox. Although I think Tatum has the highest ceiling and will make many All NBA teams, there is not one of those players that is transcendent. Of course most of them won’t make that money, because it requires them to be named All NBA, but it is ridiculous money. I would also say haha to paying Hayward 120 million for four years, Van Fleet 82 million for four years, Bogdonovic 72 million for four years and the list goes on.
It's a great time, as far as being paid, to be a good player in the league.
 

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The same haha would go to the same type of money being committed to Ingram, Tatum, Bam and Fox. Although I think Tatum has the highest ceiling and will make many All NBA teams, there is not one of those players that is transcendent. Of course most of them won’t make that money, because it requires them to be named All NBA, but it is ridiculous money. I would also say haha to paying Hayward 120 million for four years, Van Fleet 82 million for four years, Bogdonovic 72 million for four years and the list goes on.
This is somewhat a bad analogy, but bringing it back to golf, is any of the above more or less Hahaha than Robert Streb winning $1mm+ for RBM tournament win?
TV revenue, sponsor revenue in most professional sports is just crazy! Golf obviously does t have team owners who are also making fat $$$ but I’d never fault anyone who can get paid in their respective profession
But it is laughable to think these hoops guys are making $20-25mm per year and are role players!
 

Bernoulli

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This is somewhat a bad analogy, but bringing it back to golf, is any of the above more or less Hahaha than Robert Streb winning $1mm+ for RBM tournament win?
TV revenue, sponsor revenue in most professional sports is just crazy! Golf obviously does t have team owners who are also making fat $$$ but I’d never fault anyone who can get paid in their respective profession
But it is laughable to think these hoops guys are making $20-25mm per year and are role players!
You are absolutely correct about the money. You can't blame the players. Nor should anyone care when the owners complain about a lack of revenue caused by the pandemic. No one is forcing these teams to sign these players for that kind of money. Pro basketball is doing very well financially even without having fans at games.

And in addition to these players who are getting max contract dollars, shooters are getting paid. In the current NBA, if you can shoot the ball, especially from 3, you will get paid.
 

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You are absolutely correct about the money. You can't blame the players. Nor should anyone care when the owners complain about a lack of revenue caused by the pandemic. No one is forcing these teams to sign these players for that kind of money. Pro basketball is doing very well financially even without having fans at games.

And in addition to these players who are getting max contract dollars, shooters are getting paid. In the current NBA, if you can shoot the ball, especially from 3, you will get paid.
You are so correct. Shooting currently, is THE most important talent in the NBA.
 

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Unless you’re a 76er... 😭
There are quite a few commentators who like what the Sixers have done. They added Green and Curry in trades, while also drafting Isaiah Joe, who may be able to shoot. Green may be about done, but he is a career 40% shooter from 3. Curry is 44%, I believe.
 

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