We've launched the new forums! Read more here

NCAA Tournament Inequalities

jmix18

jmix18

I'm just happy to be here.
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
6,205
Reaction score
11,261
Location
Minnesota
Handicap
4.8
If you haven't seen the inequalities between the mens and women's NCAA Tournament setups you really should take a look. Here's a good overview of it: https://nowthisnews.com/news/ncaa-g...ty-between-womens-mens-basketball-tournaments

I vent on here because I live in a house full of females, even my dog, and my wife and I are working to do our best to raise strong, vocal, and powerful women. However - I'm in absolute disbelief in how the NCAA has handled this in our current day and age. My daughters are at the age that they are now seeing discrepancies at all levels of sports - including the difference between PGA and LPGA and asking questions of "why?"... I don't have much else to say except that I am really in disbelief that the NCAA would even have allowed anything like this to happen. Vent over. Have a great day THPers. I hope you get out and chase a small dimpled ball today.
 
I have seen it and will refrain from posting my opinion, but I do have a bit of a different point of view to some of it.

Inequalities are not gender specific, but sport specific and driven by viewers and fans. The idea that everybody should get everything the same is a noble effort, but is it reality? Should we all live in the exact same homes, wear the same clothes, drive the same vehicles, etc etc?

I am not a fan of college athletics for this very reason, but do believe at the end of the day, most have the opportunity to better themselves with a degree and a learning experience to come out as better people.
 
jmix18 said:
If you haven't seen the inequalities between the mens and women's NCAA Tournament setups you really should take a look. Here's a good overview of it: https://nowthisnews.com/news/ncaa-g...ty-between-womens-mens-basketball-tournaments

I vent on here because I live in a house full of females, even my dog, and my wife and I are working to do our best to raise strong, vocal, and powerful women. However - I'm in absolute disbelief in how the NCAA has handled this in our current day and age. My daughters are at the age that they are now seeing discrepancies at all levels of sports - including the difference between PGA and LPGA and asking questions of "why?"... I don't have much else to say except that I am really in disbelief that the NCAA would even have allowed anything like this to happen. Vent over. Have a great day THPers. I hope you get out and chase a small dimpled ball today.
Click to expand...
The why is the men's tourney makes half a billion dollars and the women's tourney loses money.

I don't think things need to be equal partially because of that, but that is pretty bad and disrespectful to those young women.

A lot of the men's stuff you see was sponsored(so not provided by ncaa) because the companies get a return on investment. It's no secret why the women's game doesn't receive the same level of sponsorships. Should we get mad at the companies for that? Maybe, but at the end of the day it's a business decision.
 
JB said:
I have seen it and will refrain from posting my opinion, but I do have a bit of a different point of view to some of it.

Inequalities are not gender specific, but sport specific and driven by viewers and fans. The idea that everybody should get everything the same is a noble effort, but is it reality? Should we all live in the exact same homes, wear the same clothes, drive the same vehicles, etc etc?

I am not a fan of college athletics for this very reason, but do believe at the end of the day, most have the opportunity to better themselves with a degree and a learning experience to come out as better people.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of what you say - but there is little to no effort involved for the NCAA in this area. Yes the purses for PGA will be higher than LPGA. And salaries will be greater for mens pro athletes than womens - it's a supply/demand issue here in the US. However, in looking at the Title IX expectations it's difficult to defend the NCAA in their decision in this.
 
The drastic difference between the weight rooms is hard to see. I have been able to follow the #1 girls recruit in the country through a woman I work with. She chose to sign with UConn. She blew out her knee the summer before her junior year and she was an absolute animal in the gym to get back to where she was. These women work their butts off to be great and deserve something similar.
 
Having lived my adult life in CT.....I can attest to the way CT women were idolized and supported. I watched so many games where Uconn beat a team like a drum and the other team was a high level University. They would go play in some arena where average attendance was 1000 and for Uconn 10000 would show up and the facility couldn't handle it. My standard line I use is...Life Isn't Fair....Start at that point and go out and make a difference....If I were to list my views/concerns for women......this issue with NCAA wouldn't crack the top 10.
 
MattyD-MPLS said:
The drastic difference between the weight rooms is hard to see. I have been able to follow the #1 girls recruit in the country through a woman I work with. She chose to sign with UConn. She blew out her knee the summer before her junior year and she was an absolute animal in the gym to get back to where she was. These women work their butts off to be great and deserve something similar.
Click to expand...
Paige is amazing and the rock for UCONN Women's Basketball now. My girls have her autograph and photo with her. When she played here in Buffalo, she stuck around and signed autographs and took pictures for every single kid and person that wanted one. Our varsity players even got her autograph and photos. She's a stud and a great person overall.
 
GolfTravelDude said:
Having lived my adult life in CT.....I can attest to the way CT women were idolized and supported. I watched so many games where Uconn beat a team like a drum and the other team was a high level University. They would go play in some arena where average attendance was 1000 and for Uconn 10000 would show up and the facility couldn't handle it. My standard line I use is...Life Isn't Fair....Start at that point and go out and make a difference....If I were to list my views/concerns for women......this issue with NCAA wouldn't crack the top 10.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this post..

What's that saying.... if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense? Advertisers throw obscene amounts of money at the men's side of the NCAA tournament and regular season TV. Until the people selling the women's side start upping THEIR game, I don't see much changing. It's ratings and TV money that makes the difference and i would venture to guess not much more than that. You can sell out at home forever, but after costs, that probably doesn't even cover the scholarships given.

My daughter swam D1 through college.... often 2 sessions a day. For no money and maximum effort, while freezing her butt off at a pool in New England through the winters. She saw the hoops team receive lots of cushy treatment and perks to their program and every now and then felt like Carl Spackler and...... "Hey, Lama, how about a little something, for the effort?" and that's human nature.

During grad school. she worked in the Sports Media office (same college). It was an eye opener. She's a numbers kid and said that without the Men's basketball program (they didn't have football) there wouldn't be ANY sports programs. I'm assuming this is true for the majority of, if not all, universities.

Bottom line, as a parent (or student) I would look at college athletics as a means to a free education without much more expectation than that. If you are good enough, and lucky enough, to get a scholarship in any sport take FULL advantage of it. Who cares if you're getting burgers and dogs while some other sport gets steak or chicken. Because when that pond gets even smaller (going pro) the odds of you being in that pond are astronomical. At the very least you've got a (mostly) free education under your belt and 4 years of experiences that many people don't get the opportunity to experience.

On a somewhat brighter note, it seems like the LPGA is on an upward trajectory with the number of tournaments, sponsors and prize money....
 
I don’t like the administrative side of college athletics. There’s far too much politicking and way too many programs have been shut down because of it. My main thought on this is that they dropped the ball on the women’s facilities and whoever set them up should be relieved of their duties.
 
RealPretendPsychic said:
I don’t like the administrative side of college athletics. There’s far too much politicking and way too many programs have been shut down because of it. My main thought on this is that they dropped the ball on the women’s facilities and whoever set them up should be relieved of their duties.
Click to expand...
Agree with what you're saying here.
 
jmix18 said:
I agree with a lot of what you say - but there is little to no effort involved for the NCAA in this area. Yes the purses for PGA will be higher than LPGA. And salaries will be greater for mens pro athletes than womens - it's a supply/demand issue here in the US. However, in looking at the Title IX expectations it's difficult to defend the NCAA in their decision in this.
Click to expand...

perhaps Title IX is part of the problem? I have a daughter, and I hope that she enjoys sports, but treating women’s major sports like men’s minor sports (golf would be included in that) doesn’t seem unfair given the amount of revenue and self sustainability.

the women should form their own AD and see how that works out for them.
 
Overall l agree with what most said here in terms of the money aspect, and how can they be treated the same when one makes 100's of millions vs. one being a loss leader; however, if that video is truly correct and accurate. I do think the NCAA can find a little bit in their budget to outfit the women with more than a set of dumbbells. Like it's a GROSSLY differrent. We aren't talking millions of dollars here to stand up a bit more of a gym. At the end of the day the NCAA has money, budget differently and avoid the PR nightmare. It's just a stupid play, but then again what are you expecting the NCAA is literally a modern day mafia imo.
 
V14_Heels said:
Overall l agree with what most said here in terms of the money aspect, and how can they be treated the same when one makes 100's of millions vs. one being a loss leader; however, if that video is truly correct and accurate. I do think the NCAA can find a little bit in their budget to outfit the women with a bit more. We aren't talking millions of dollars here to stand up a bit more of a gym. At the end of the day the NCAA has money, budget differently and avoid the PR nightmare. It's just a stupid play, but then again what are you expecting the NCAA is literally a modern day mafia imo.
Click to expand...

I don't think the NCAA outfits these things. It's usually up to the host sites to work sponsership deals or coordinate with local high schools/colleges. With 64 teams in 1 place and covid "bubble" restrictions, this year is a completely different animal. But agree, they (ncaa and host sites) should/could have done better.
 
baylrballa said:
I don't think the NCAA outfits these things. It's usually up to the host sites to work sponsership deals or coordinate with local high schools/colleges. With 64 teams in 1 place and covid "bubble" restrictions, this year is a completely different animal. But agree, they (ncaa and host sites) should/could have done better.
Click to expand...
Sure, but ultimately this falls on the NCAA. They are the governing body, they don't get a cop out here.
 
V14_Heels said:
Sure, but ultimately this falls on the NCAA. They are the governing body, they don't get a cop out here.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, but they suck at most everything they do. Not surprising they either okayed this stuff or lacked the appropriate oversight.
 
For once I’ll agree with something JB says.
I don’t necessarily believe it’s gender, it’s more about the money. If there’s hardly any viewership then there’s no money.
There are other gender inequalities that need to be fought for. This sports thing is a losing battle.
 
V14_Heels said:
Overall l agree with what most said here in terms of the money aspect, and how can they be treated the same when one makes 100's of millions vs. one being a loss leader; however, if that video is truly correct and accurate. I do think the NCAA can find a little bit in their budget to outfit the women with more than a set of dumbbells. Like it's a GROSSLY differrent. We aren't talking millions of dollars here to stand up a bit more of a gym. At the end of the day the NCAA has money, budget differently and avoid the PR nightmare. It's just a stupid play, but then again what are you expecting the NCAA is literally a modern day mafia imo.
Click to expand...

As the OP, that's my main point - may not have stated it correctly - it's vastly different in terms of accommodations and supports. The NCAA as the organizational body has at least that minimal responsibility - it really does scream what they value most - the almighty dollar. Location, stadium size, and what not are entirely dependent upon $$'s. How you treat your athletes is a matter of morals and ethics IMHO.
 
TCB2010 said:
For once I’ll agree with something JB says.
I don’t necessarily believe it’s gender, it’s more about the money. If there’s hardly any viewership then there’s no money.
There are other gender inequalities that need to be fought for. This sports thing is a losing battle.
Click to expand...
but wouldn't that be for just about every college sport? don't most lose money? rowing, tennis, wrestling...i actually have no idea but i am guessing most college sports lose money, not on the scale as college women's basketball but still lose
 
Maybe a little off topic but I don't feel sorry for the women, and men, who are on full scholarship to play athletics. Most of these student athletes will never make it professionally, and whether you are riding the bench on the girls basketball team or the third string cornerback on the football team a lot of these kids would not be in college if they weren't good athletes. Getting a $250,000 free ride to go to school isn't that bad. Maybe I'm jaded because I have 2 kids in college now and see those tuition bills. Of course they shouldn't be treated poorly but I'm not all up in arms that they don't have 5 star dining in a COVID restricted year.
 
How often do you, your wife and daughters watch any women’s sports?
Do you go to any WNBA games? College lacrosse, softball or whatever? I doubt it.
I’m the last guy to defend the NCAA, I think they’re a joke.... and the fact that football and basketball HCs at so many schools are paid as much as they are is a farce. I get why they are though, their programs support the AD, and in a lot of cases are huge sources of revenue for the school, but it’s still a joke.
Back to the women.... they’re treated the same as other athletes in non revenue producing sports. re. Like student athletes.
As for Professional sports? Tell your daughters look at tennis, and to a lesser extent golf. People care enough to watch them play, so there’s money to be made. Bring in revenue, you get paid. Unless you’re the WNBA, which is to the NBA what the welfare program is to the government.
 
jmix18 said:
I agree with a lot of what you say - but there is little to no effort involved for the NCAA in this area. Yes the purses for PGA will be higher than LPGA. And salaries will be greater for mens pro athletes than womens - it's a supply/demand issue here in the US. However, in looking at the Title IX expectations it's difficult to defend the NCAA in their decision in this.
Click to expand...
I mean wouldn't a simple solution in this case be for the NCAA to say if you want to donate (equipment/food/lodging/etc) for the men's tournament, you need to provide equal accommodations to the women's tournament as well? Yes, it would essentially double the investment, but I'd have to imagine the ROI is still profitable for these companies. There's a whole bunch of money to be made in these tournaments.
 
The difference is definitely humiliating. My wife sent me a chart the other day comparing the professional careers of Sue Bird vs. Lebron James. Both 17 years in professional basketball with 4 titles each. As you can imagine, the differences in what each makes and made over their 17 year careers is absolutely absurd. I told her it basically boiled down to dollars the two leagues generate from attendance. advertising, marketing, etc. Just a sad reality for women's sports.

As a bigger fan of watching LPGA Golf over PGA Golf, I truly hope they continue to build no the momentum they have gained over the last several years. It will obviously never catch up in monetary terms for the athetes, but at least that tour made serious progress under Whan and hope it continues to do so.
 
SC LEFTY said:
How often do you, your wife and daughters watch any women’s sports?
Do you go to any WNBA games? College lacrosse, softball or whatever? I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Actually - we watch it quite often. It really is an attempt to have my girls see successful females play at higher levels. Lately, it's non-stop volleyball here with the LPGA mixed in with the PGA. And yes we go to WNBA games. We've been lucky to have the Lynx winning championships in MN (a few years back) and it was pretty good ball. Fundamentally better than the Wolves - but that's a different conversation for a different time - the games are just different styles.
 
It is wrong to have such a tremendous disparity in services and facilities between the men and women. It is inexcusable. That does not mean everything has to be precisely the same to a T. But you can't discriminate against a group because of their gender, and fundamentally that is what is going on here. It is wrong.

The money argument...I've made that one myself with regard to the women's national soccer team and elsewhere. I get it. But there's a chicken and the egg thing going on here too. If the women aren't able to train adequately they'll perform at a lower level; lesser performance leads to lower viewership; lower viewership = less revenue. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

The meals and swag bags are also different between the men and women. Do I think it should be closer? Yes. Am I worked up about it? No. The women generate less money, they are receiving meals and swag that are adequate. I don't think it is a great look for the NCAA but they are receiving things that are adequate and arguably in the general ballpark as the men. A single rack of free weights to be shared by numerous teams is a freaking joke.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top