Official MLB Baseball Thread

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Hanks

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Re: Official MLB Baseball Thread

tcalloway1 said:
kinda like you with the JB special huh?

No that was dummy see dummy spew
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Sunday_Hacker

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lol Kruk just said on BBT that the Philly fan/idiot deserved to get tazed! btw still waiting on the harmless response?
 

JB

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tell us HOW you know that this kid was "harmless'? were you on the field? do you know him personally? no to all of the above. you simply are going by what you have seen on tv and the internet right? AFTER the fact right? you werent on the field, you have no idea if the kid was drunk or high or both now do you? heres a simple way to not get tazed on the field, stay off the field!

tell me this, if some loon was running around your meat packing plant would you do nothing? lets say theres a history, a couple of loons a few years ago were running around your plant and jumped your co-worker and beat the crap outta of him, still nothing huh? bottom line you have no idea what anyone is capable of and unless your in the moment you cant say someone is harmless and do nothing...
Because he knows everything, is always right, and is Mr. Tiger Woods :alien:

No one knew if he was harmless or not. What if he charged one of the players? What if he had something other than a towel? Can't take the chance anymore in today's world.

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This is how dangerous tasers can be.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/10/14/bc-taser.html

This is why this would never have happened in the Rogers Center. None of the security people have tasers and the police will not go on the field to chase a fan. That situation changed the way most people think about tasers in Canada.

Now, do I think they went overboard in the kids situation. Yes, but like everyone has said, no one knows who this kid is or if he in deed posed a threat to any of the players (other than Nike).
 

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FTR it wasn't two grown men who attacked the Royals coach it was one convicted felon and his 15 year old son.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnJ3vvgQceDhSAID6Ozzw3URvLYF?slug=jp-gamboa050510

Gamboa’s stance was as strong as ever: Fans are going to continue running on the field as long as the penalty for doing so is misdemeanor trespassing, a minor offense.

“If there was mandatory jail time and people knew it and it was enforced, they wouldn’t go anywhere near the field,” Gamboa said. “Too often, it’s a $250 fine and probation, which makes the guy famous for practically no repercussions. It’s almost a freebie.”

Gamboa has trouble making the distinction between the happy-go-lucky rail-jumpers looking for a laugh – the corpulent security guards in baseball teams’ employ often make an evasive intruder look like Barry Sanders – and the Ligues of the world, who intend harm. Distinguishing the two is an imprecise science, and so Gamboa favors a broad-brush approach: treat ‘em all the same.

Since he hadn’t seen video of either incident, Gamboa didn’t want to parse the to-Tase-or-not-to-Tase argument that flared Tuesday.

“I don’t even know what a Taser is,” he said. “I can certainly see the debate where some people are going to think it’s cruel and unusual punishment. People in the sport are going to think differently. We’re vulnerable. How can we tell the difference between someone who’s harmless and who’s going to hurt us?”
 

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Interesting article... I wonder how many times they had to use the taser to subdue the guy. Even then, I could see how a shock to the body could cause damage especially if its already running crazy because of drugs or whatever else is in the body. I didn't see the whole thing but did security at least try and catch him before tasing? If so, I really don't see any issues with it. People can die from being wrestled to the ground. You ever see a persons head bounce off of concrete? Having been around the bar bouncing scene, I've learned you can never be too cautious and there isnt really always a black/white answer for how to handle a situation like this.

This is how dangerous tasers can be.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/10/14/bc-taser.html

This is why this would never have happened in the Rogers Center. None of the security people have tasers and the police will not go on the field to chase a fan. That situation changed the way most people think about tasers in Canada.

Now, do I think they went overboard in the kids situation. Yes, but like everyone has said, no one knows who this kid is or if he in deed posed a threat to any of the players (other than Nike).
 

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In terms of law, the kid broke the law by running on the field, he evaded security and police when they tried to stop him. The used what was necessary to end the chase. End of story!!!
 

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tell us HOW you know that this kid was "harmless'? were you on the field? do you know him personally? no to all of the above. you simply are going by what you have seen on tv and the internet right? AFTER the fact right? you werent on the field, you have no idea if the kid was drunk or high or both now do you? heres a simple way to not get tazed on the field, stay off the field!

tell me this, if some loon was running around your meat packing plant would you do nothing? lets say theres a history, a couple of loons a few years ago were running around your plant and jumped your co-worker and beat the crap outta of him, still nothing huh? bottom line you have no idea what anyone is capable of and unless your in the moment you cant say someone is harmless and do nothing...
The kid was RUNNING AWAY from security officers and was obviously posing no threat. What are some of you seeing that I'm not?

The kid was doing what hundreds of other yay hoos do every year in stadiums. And who cares if he was drunk? Should cops be tasing all drunks who get unruly? There wouldn be enough tasers to go around if that were the case.

Again, what did we ever do before tasers? My goodness, I didn't think it was that big of a deal for the security people to arrest them by physically apprehending them and arresting them. I think the cop should be embarrassed to have used the taser on the kid. He used it because he couldn't catch him. Is that a good reason to tase someone? Especially when the kid was going nowhere. He was in an enclosed stadium w/ 10 people after him. Again, judgement comes into play here.

And, I'm going to use this phrase again but it's totally necessary AGAIN: When did I ever say NOTHING should have been done? Do some of you read my posts or love skipping parts to maybe try to up me while either forgetting what I said or assuming I meant something which I didn't?

Look back. I said the kid SHOULD be arrested and face consequences. Does security need to act immediately on someone running on the field? Absolutely. Should their first move be to their taser? MOST of the time, I say absolutely not. My ONLY issue here is the use of the taser when it wasn't needed.

So the cop couldn't catch the kid, so he shoots him w/ a taser. The kid wasn't going after anyone. The kid wasn't posing any threat. For proof of that, look at the video. To say, "how do you know he didn't pose a threat"? Well, my goodness, look at the tape. What was he doing that posed a threat? Why do I, or anyone else have to actually know him or be there to understand that?

So, I get that some of you believe they need to tase everyone who runs onto the field now, correct?
 

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I would like an answer.

Should we tase everyone who runs onto the field?
 

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answers....
The kid was RUNNING AWAY from security officers and was obviously posing no threat. proof ? What are some of you seeing that I'm not? I guess he should have run toward them then?

The kid was doing what hundreds of other yay hoos do every year in stadiums. so? And who cares if he was drunk? Should cops be tasing all drunks who get unruly? yes if it's their policy (which it is in Philly, right or wrong) There wouldn be enough tasers to go around if that were the case. sure there are and they're cheaper than the cost of guns and bullets

Again, what did we ever do before tasers? My goodness, I didn't think it was that big of a deal for the security people to arrest them by physically apprehending them and arresting them. I think the cop should be embarrassed to have used the taser on the kid. He used it because he couldn't catch him. Is that a good reason to tase someone? yes Especially when the kid was going nowhere. He was in an enclosed stadium w/ 10 people after him. Again, judgement comes into play here. so just let him run around until he gets tired?

And, I'm going to use this phrase again but it's totally necessary AGAIN: When did I ever say NOTHING should have been done? Do some of you read my posts or love skipping parts to maybe try to up me while either forgetting what I said or assuming I meant something which I didn't?

Look back. I said the kid SHOULD be arrested and face consequences. Does security need to act immediately on someone running on the field? Absolutely. Should their first move be to their taser? MOST of the time, I say absolutely not. My ONLY issue here is the use of the taser when it wasn't needed. wrong, their first move was trying to catch him. when they couldn't they used a taser to asist them.

So the cop couldn't catch the kid, so he shoots him w/ a taser. The kid wasn't going after anyone. how do you know that? The kid wasn't posing any threat. proof? For proof of that, look at the video. oh! To say, "how do you know he didn't pose a threat"? Well, my goodness, look at the tape. What was he doing that posed a threat? um, running around on a baseball field where he's not supposed to be? rational people tend to not do that stuff Why do I, or anyone else have to actually know him or be there to understand that?
 

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answers....
Half a dozen people (or more) were after him. What was the kid going to do? Again, case by case basis. If the kid had a threatening object of some kind or acted in a threatening manner, then the cops pull their tasers or guns out. Just like they do on anyone else.

But, that obviously wasn't the case here.

Again, should we tase everyone who runs onto the field?
 

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I see your point. But, as a matter of safety you just never know with people anymore. From what I've seen (since my last post I have done some research) they did try and get the kid before tasing. He looks harmless but so do a lot of people. Some of the people we would kick out of the bar didnt look like any trouble at all. All that tought me was to never just assume its all in good fun. Sports fan can be insane. I dont see a right or wrong answer, but hopefully it will prompt stricter rules for these types of infractions.
I would like an answer.

Should we tase everyone who runs onto the field?
 

NikeGolf

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I see your point. But, as a matter of safety you just never know with people anymore. From what I've seen (since my last post I have done some research) they did try and get the kid before tasing. He looks harmless but so do a lot of people. Some of the people we would kick out of the bar didnt look like any trouble at all. All that tought me was to never just assume its all in good fun. Sports fan can be insane. I dont see a right or wrong answer, but hopefully it will prompt stricter rules for these types of infractions.
There are strong and hard consequences for the people that do it. They should face those consequences. I'm all for that.

But that's a judges job. Having keystone cops get wild and crazy w/ their tasers on anyone running on the field is what I have a hard time with.
 

Hanks

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that's the whole point,,,,,they didn't know. If something had happened you'd be the first one saying 'they should have known he had a dangerous object in his pants, etc. It's something the Police like to call 'implied intent' which is code for 'better safe than sorry'

we shouldn't tase everyone but if it's needed then so be it.
Half a dozen people (or more) were after him. What was the kid going to do? Again, case by case basis. If the kid had a threatening object of some kind or acted in a threatening manner, then the cops pull their tasers or guns out. Just like they do on anyone else.

But, that obviously wasn't the case here.

Again, should we tase everyone who runs onto the field?
 

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Here is a good commentary on the subject

I guess the kids in Columbine and at Virgina Tech looked innocent enough walking around campus too. You never know what is going through someones head no matter what they look like and what they are doing. They controlled the situation before it got out of hand and anyone got hurt, which is exactly what they are supposed to do.
 

Hanks

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brilliant post StL
Here is a good commentary on the subject

I guess the kids in Columbine and at Virgina Tech looked innocent enough walking around campus too. You never know what is going through someones head no matter what they look like and what they are doing. They controlled the situation before it got out of hand and anyone got hurt, which is exactly what they are supposed to do.
 

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Sunday_Hacker

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again HOW do you know he was harmless? unless YOU were on the field in the moment? until then you cannot say that with certainty, all you are going by is the video that you have the luxury of seeing AFTER the fact in the comfort of your home over and over in slow mo close up etc etc. like has been mentioned who knows whats under that towel or in his pants, but lets wait to find out and then say dang should have stopped him sooner?


Half a dozen people (or more) were after him. What was the kid going to do? Again, case by case basis. If the kid had a threatening object of some kind or acted in a threatening manner, then the cops pull their tasers or guns out. Just like they do on anyone else.

But, that obviously wasn't the case here.
 

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Here is a good commentary on the subject

I guess the kids in Columbine and at Virgina Tech looked innocent enough walking around campus too. You never know what is going through someones head no matter what they look like and what they are doing. They controlled the situation before it got out of hand and anyone got hurt, which is exactly what they are supposed to do.
You really want to go there? My goodness. It's a kid running onto the field w/ a bunch of security guards after him to ARREST HIM. How is that in any way remotely in the same ballpark as being compared to Columbine and VT?

They did have the situation under control by having all the security people after him. The kid wasn't getting away or wasn't going to do anything harmful to anyone, with or without taser.

About the article. I can understand the points, but I just happen to disagree w/ it. As I've said before, this isn't some third world country. Authority figures can't and shouldn't be be able to just do whatever they want in whatever manner they want to people.

You run onto the field, you get arrested. Yes. That's the way it should be. But I would hope cops could do their jobs without using a device that puts thousands of volts of electricity into someone. It should be a last resort.
 

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again HOW do you know he was harmless? unless YOU were on the field in the moment? until then you cannot say that with certainty, all you are going by is the video that you have the luxury of seeing AFTER the fact in the comfort of your home over and over in slow mo close up etc etc. like has been mentioned who knows whats under that towel or in his pants, but lets wait to find out and then say dang should have stopped him sooner?
This is exactly the truth. This is why police use handcuffs before and after arrest. It is for the safety of all that are around. After tragedies we always come back and say "they should have done more". Well this time they did and it worked.
 

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again HOW do you know he was harmless? unless YOU were on the field in the moment? until then you cannot say that with certainty, all you are going by is the video that you have the luxury of seeing AFTER the fact in the comfort of your home over and over in slow mo close up etc etc. like has been mentioned who knows whats under that towel or in his pants, but lets wait to find out and then say dang should have stopped him sooner?
What could possibly there that we can't see? What could have been there that the security saw while it happened? If he had something under the towel and intended to use it, then the cops would have been able to see it and then use their tasers/guns.

So, by the mere "threat" of someone having something in their pockets they should get tased?

Again, should we now tase everyone who runs on the field?
 
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