JDax

#TheRivalry w/ UST Mamiya- Team JDax
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That is crazy.
Ohio St & Michigan aren’t going to join, but FSU & Clemson is a real possibility, they were in the mix as possible schools in the 1st SEC Expansion (When Arkansas & South Carolina joined)...
 

Scorpion12

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Not sure I'd like that... SC and Clemson in the same conference? I know a few Clemson fans and they're insufferable already. But I guess that would be good for the SEC... more money, a built-in in state rivalry for SC...
 

JDax

#TheRivalry w/ UST Mamiya- Team JDax
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Not sure I'd like that... SC and Clemson in the same conference? I know a few Clemson fans and they're insufferable already. But I guess that would be good for the SEC... more money, a built-in in state rivalry for SC...
SC plays them annually anyway, like UGA plays GA. Tech...
 

JDax

#TheRivalry w/ UST Mamiya- Team JDax
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4432B0E2-950E-416D-BE2E-424E8BA94D86.gif
 

Joshnoble01

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Read an article saying the Big 10 should be proactive and poach the Pac 12. Grab USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon and Washington. As a Wazzu alum I would not be stoked on this. Although it might be fun being the big boy in a newly formed Mountain West that we inevitably end up in.
 

mancest

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Read an article saying the Big 10 should be proactive and poach the Pac 12. Grab USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon and Washington. As a Wazzu alum I would not be stoked on this. Although it might be fun being the big boy in a newly formed Mountain West that we inevitably end up in.
As an Oregon State fan I am in the same boat, but I don't think we would be a big boy in the newly formed Mountain west. I think the major conferences are going to dominate and everyone else is going to be a 2nd or 3rd class citizen. I hope the pac is able to get the 2 OK teams as well as UT and maybe TT (don't think the pac will bring in Baylor or TCU because of Stanford/Cal, but who knows the conference may not have a choice). and get to 16, but that is seaming unlikely.
 

BigDill

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@JB if FSU does in fact jump to the SEC, what do you think happens with the UM/FSU game? The UM/Florida game stopped, at least in part, of there being limited upside for Florida, having had to play an increasingly difficult regular SEC schedule and going out of conference for the FSU game. I would not see the same scenario popping up for UM. Why would FSU want to play them is they had a full SEC schedule, including the FSU/UF game which would not be in-conference?
 

MarMill

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So ESPN is going all in with SEC and Oklahoma/ Texas and leaving the Big10 for Fox
 

JB

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@JB if FSU does in fact jump to the SEC, what do you think happens with the UM/FSU game? The UM/Florida game stopped, at least in part, of there being limited upside for Florida, having had to play an increasingly difficult regular SEC schedule and going out of conference for the FSU game. I would not see the same scenario popping up for UM. Why would FSU want to play them is they had a full SEC schedule, including the FSU/UF game which would not be in-conference?
I honestly don't know. I would like to think it would continue due to the history there, but who knows anymore. I am still of the belief that the UF game stopped because Spurrier feared them :ROFLMAO:
 

MWard

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@JB if FSU does in fact jump to the SEC, what do you think happens with the UM/FSU game? The UM/Florida game stopped, at least in part, of there being limited upside for Florida, having had to play an increasingly difficult regular SEC schedule and going out of conference for the FSU game. I would not see the same scenario popping up for UM. Why would FSU want to play them is they had a full SEC schedule, including the FSU/UF game which would not be in-conference?
I think Florida St/Miami would still continue. There's too much tension in that rivalry to give that up. UF/FSU was usually either a great game, or one team was just firing on all cylinders and the other was not. It was always a game where there's trash talk, but also, you were just like ehh... damn it. Florida State/Miami, I mean... There's no love loss there. You wanted to see actual embarrassment happen. Or idk, someone to get hit so hard in the rain that you could hear it from the stands.
 

Vortex

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Read an article saying the Big 10 should be proactive and poach the Pac 12. Grab USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon and Washington. As a Wazzu alum I would not be stoked on this. Although it might be fun being the big boy in a newly formed Mountain West that we inevitably end up in.
I'd be shocked if the Big 10 went this direction. Football and basketball pay the bills but think of all the sports like swimming, wrestling, field hockey, volleyball, track, etc. Maryland traveling to USC for a swim meet??? Yikes.

North Carolina has to be prime target number 1 followed by Notre Dame. If Jim Delany was the Big 10 commissioner, then this would be a real possibility. The current resident of that chair is a joke.
 
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BigDill

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I think Florida St/Miami would still continue. There's too much tension in that rivalry to give that up. UF/FSU was usually either a great game, or one team was just firing on all cylinders and the other was not. It was always a game where there's trash talk, but also, you were just like ehh... damn it. Florida State/Miami, I mean... There's no love loss there. You wanted to see actual embarrassment happen. Or idk, someone to get hit so hard in the rain that you could hear it from the stands.
I brought it up because its a big game from a tradition standpoint, but from a scheduling standpoint its only downside for an SEC version of FSU. If your goal is to get to a national championship game, playing UM doesnt get you any closer, but it can certainly get you farther away.
 

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I brought it up because its a big game from a tradition standpoint, but from a scheduling standpoint its only downside for an SEC version of FSU. If your goal is to get to a national championship game, playing UM doesnt get you any closer, but it can certainly get you farther away.
In the ACC, it does. SEC/ACC? All depends on how each team is doing.
 

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From a National perspective:
Does Tradition really matter any more now?
How about 5 years from now?
 

tequila4kapp

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Because it’s about brand first and foremost, and they have one of the absolute biggest in all of college athletics.
Exactly. Just like USC, which is rumored to be exploring options.
 

tequila4kapp

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I read something that makes a lot of sense. This is less about money and more about controlling the football product given the NCAA is neutered. If the SEC goes to 16 or 20 with the teams being discussed they can just make whatever rules they want and roll with it. No more 25 scholarship limits. Pay athletes directly. No restrictions on booster activities. No limit of 20 hours per week. Etc., etc. etc. If the NCAA and other conferences don't like it, tough **** - the SEC has all the best teams, they'll officially leave the NCAA and do whatever they want.

The only hiccup in this that I can see is this would suck big time for non-football sports, especially those that are mandated by Title 9 compliance. There will be some awfully long road trips to get in a weekend of lacrosse or swim meet or gymnastic competitions. I know, I know. Who gives a $%#$, they don't make any money. But that whole student athlete things comes more into play when it is sports that are not obviously becoming a semi-pro minor leagues, like football.
 

JB

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I read something that makes a lot of sense. This is less about money and more about controlling the football product given the NCAA is neutered. If the SEC goes to 16 or 20 with the teams being discussed they can just make whatever rules they want and roll with it. No more 25 scholarship limits. Pay athletes directly. No restrictions on booster activities. No limit of 20 hours per week. Etc., etc. etc. If the NCAA and other conferences don't like it, tough **** - the SEC has all the best teams, they'll officially leave the NCAA and do whatever they want.

The only hiccup in this that I can see is this would suck big time for non-football sports, especially those that are mandated by Title 9 compliance. There will be some awfully long road trips to get in a weekend of lacrosse or swim meet or gymnastic competitions. I know, I know. Who gives a $%#$, they don't make any money. But that whole student athlete things comes more into play when it is sports that are not obviously becoming a semi-pro minor leagues, like football.
I agree with all of this. And in the end, I have a feeling a whole lot of people are going to watch it burn.
The biggest way to fix this for the NCAA and nobody wants to hear it is to have the NFL involved. They can very easily set some rules in place that forbid some of those items listed in paragraph one.
 

DataDude

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I read something that makes a lot of sense. This is less about money and more about controlling the football product given the NCAA is neutered. If the SEC goes to 16 or 20 with the teams being discussed they can just make whatever rules they want and roll with it. No more 25 scholarship limits. Pay athletes directly. No restrictions on booster activities. No limit of 20 hours per week. Etc., etc. etc. If the NCAA and other conferences don't like it, tough **** - the SEC has all the best teams, they'll officially leave the NCAA and do whatever they want.

The only hiccup in this that I can see is this would suck big time for non-football sports, especially those that are mandated by Title 9 compliance. There will be some awfully long road trips to get in a weekend of lacrosse or swim meet or gymnastic competitions. I know, I know. Who gives a $%#$, they don't make any money. But that whole student athlete things comes more into play when it is sports that are not obviously becoming a semi-pro minor leagues, like football.
My guess is here that ESPN is behind all of this. They have played kingmaker for the SEC and now it is just pitching the money to the teams they want involved and getting everyone signed on the dotted line. They can probably terminate their TV Deals with the other conferences and move forward with 1 deal and one huge conference. Fox will probably build their own super conference from what is left over and the bowls and the BCS will have to figure out what their plan is when that is done.
 

tequila4kapp

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I agree with all of this. And in the end, I have a feeling a whole lot of people are going to watch it burn.
The biggest way to fix this for the NCAA and nobody wants to hear it is to have the NFL involved. They can very easily set some rules in place that forbid some of those items listed in paragraph one.
In the end just about the only thing the other schools can do is boycott all teams from those schools for all sports. The SEC would be less SEC and more the new governing body, with newfound powers to pick and choose who gets to participate. They'd play all their games against the same 16-20 schools in all sports. It will make for an interesting social experiment... how much of a market will there be for college football if 95% of college schools don't have teams or are obviously not playing the same game any longer? Would the average Illinois, Nebraska, etc., fan care any more if they don't have any horse in the race?
 

tequila4kapp

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My guess is here that ESPN is behind all of this. They have played kingmaker for the SEC and now it is just pitching the money to the teams they want involved and getting everyone signed on the dotted line. They can probably terminate their TV Deals with the other conferences and move forward with 1 deal and one huge conference. Fox will probably build their own super conference from what is left over and the bowls and the BCS will have to figure out what their plan is when that is done.
But businesses - and struggling ones at that like ESPN - usually don't volunteer to pay more money for the product they already own (SEC + LHN).

I'm not a lawyer, much less a contracts lawyer, and every contract dispute starts with the actual language of the contract, which we don't have. But it seems improbable to me that one party can unilaterally terminate the agreement without paying damages. It seems more probable they can renegotiate the value of the deal given membership changes resulting from schools leaving (i.e., Big12 reportedly will go down to 9M per remaining school).
 
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Vortex

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From a National perspective:
Does Tradition really matter any more now?
How about 5 years from now?
Sadly, the only tradition that matters includes lots of Benjamins. Missouri and Kansas had one of the longest football traditions in the country. Poof!. Just think if OSU v Mich disappeared that fast? OSU has a serious advantage for the last decade but it's still a great tradition. I enjoy rooting for almost every opponent of both teams but wouldn't want to see the tradition end. Traditions are a huge part of the college game.
I agree with all of this. And in the end, I have a feeling a whole lot of people are going to watch it burn.
The biggest way to fix this for the NCAA and nobody wants to hear it is to have the NFL involved. They can very easily set some rules in place that forbid some of those items listed in paragraph one.
Agree with this. NFL should have minor a minor league system (Arena, Euro, whatever). Baseball and hockey are the models. NBA finally moved this way with the G league.

The student-athlete farse is already fraying. The snap is inevitable.
 

JB

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Agree with this. NFL should have minor a minor league system (Arena, Euro, whatever). Baseball and hockey are the models. NBA finally moved this way with the G league.

The student-athlete farse is already fraying. The snap is inevitable.
Its hard to mimic the less successful and find a model though.

The only hope I have in all of this, is that these schools are no longer allowed to take tax dollars.
 

BigDill

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But businesses - and struggling ones at that like ESPN - usually don't volunteer to pay more money for the product they already own (SEC + LHN).

I'm not a lawyer, much less a contracts lawyer, and every contract dispute starts with the actual language of the contract, which we don't have. But it seems improbable to me that one party can unilaterally terminate the agreement without paying damages. It seems more probable they can renegotiate the value of the deal given membership changes resulting from schools leaving (i.e., Big12 reportedly will go down to 9M per remaining school).
I do not mean this as a slight in anyway, but I am a contracts lawyer and litigator, and every dispute of this size starts with analyzing (1) what the expected cost of litigation is, (2) the probability of winning, vs the maximum exposure to damages, and (3) whether you have more money than the other side to pursue the litigation, i.e. who will run out of money first. The actual terms of the contract are secondary to the economics of litigation.

The reality is that the decision gets made, and then the rest falls into place. There is always the prospect that one party won't perform. Most contracts like this (and like most coaching contracts) have liquidated damage provisions which state that if the contract is breached, a certain amount must be paid. In this case, the schools would be happy to pay the termination fee in order to move to the SEC.
 

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