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Patrick Reed Closed Stance chipping

Chef23

Chef23

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As with anything, it is something that needs to be practiced regularly to perfect. Short game lesson was the best lesson I have every had and worked wonders for my game.
 
Chef23 said:
I saw this brief video with PReed talking about having a closed stance for chipping/pitching.


I think it is interesting and am going to give it a try. PReed has an unbelievable short game so things that work for him seem like they are worth a try.
Click to expand...


Well, you've got to know why he does so. He says in that blurb that for him, setting up closed (slightly) allows him to expose the bounce and not use the leading edge, which is vital in chipping - don't allow that leading edge to dig - use the bounce.

Some players open the face slightly as they take their grip, playing an open stance, exposing the bounce. PReed doesn't say how he addresses the ball - square or open.

Most players have a majority of weight on their front foot on the stock chip or pitch, creating a steeper swing, which can bring the leading edge into play. One can offset this by coming in shallow and returning all loft at impact - hands not ahead of club.

Lots of variables.
 
Sergio and Rumford are other guys with a great short game and a square to slightly closed stance.
 
Snickerdog said:
As with anything, it is something that needs to be practiced regularly to perfect. Short game lesson was the best lesson I have every had and worked wonders for my game.
Click to expand...

Everything needs to be practiced regularly to perfect :). I agree on the short game front. I went to a golf school a long time ago when I was better than I am now but I got more out of the short game section than anything else.
 
I think most tour level instructors have all moved away from the open stance chipping with weight forward techniques. A lot of that is due to the insight provided by launch monitors. The old idea was that hitting down produces spin, it doesn’t. Loft (spin loft) produces spin. So many now want a shallow angle of attack with more dynamic loft to produce spin for the control it gives.



blog.trackmangolf.com

How to Spin Your Wedges – Andrew Rice

Andrew Rice – PGA Teaching Professional In this episode of the TrackMan Teaching Series, Andrew Rice shows you how to produce that mid-range wedge shot that hits and stops. If you are looking…
blog.trackmangolf.com
 
Great video (Reed notwithstanding) - will have to give this a try next time I play. I've always been in the open-stance camp on chips but keep the face pretty open to engage the bounce. I like the idea of a shallower swing path via a closed stance to accomplish the same thing.

I find that sitting more square to the target on chipping also helps with accuracy. Sometimes with an open stance/face the ball can squirt out to the right (or left if LH), or pull left if you catch it really cleanly.
 
-CRW- said:
I think most tour level instructors have all moved away from the open stance chipping with weight forward techniques. A lot of that is due to the insight provided by launch monitors. The old idea was that hitting down produces spin, it doesn’t. Loft (spin loft) produces spin. So many now want a shallow angle of attack with more dynamic loft to produce spin for the control it gives.



blog.trackmangolf.com

How to Spin Your Wedges – Andrew Rice

Andrew Rice – PGA Teaching Professional In this episode of the TrackMan Teaching Series, Andrew Rice shows you how to produce that mid-range wedge shot that hits and stops. If you are looking…
blog.trackmangolf.com
Click to expand...


Don't think so about the outdated open stance. I think square, slightly open, or slightly closed can be used depending on the shot.

The above is pitching and Rice is advocating an in to out-swing. Notice that his stance is still open. One can get a lot of draw with a positive clubpath with an open stance. What Rice is teaching is a shallow swing. In other words, no lag, return the loft of the club at impact. So none of this hands far ahead of club head stuff - hands should be even to slightly ahead - neutral. Weight still remains more front and not back and forth. It's a short shot, you don't have time to weight shift and another thing. No right side bend or guess, what, you'll stick it in the ground.

Main points are shallow swing, in to out on a pitch, return loft at impact with hands neutral. To expose bounce, one can slightly open club face, or even allow club head to pass hands on certain pitch shots to use more bounce.

Chipping - shorter shot and if you come in inside, you may hit dirt before ball. Best to stay taller without right side bend. On chips, I find it safer to come in square and if I want more spin, I will open the face and cut the ball. To each his own.

Here is Utley from a year ago.



Here is a chip and run

 
Last edited:
-CRW- said:
I think most tour level instructors have all moved away from the open stance chipping with weight forward techniques. A lot of that is due to the insight provided by launch monitors. The old idea was that hitting down produces spin, it doesn’t. Loft (spin loft) produces spin. So many now want a shallow angle of attack with more dynamic loft to produce spin for the control it gives.



blog.trackmangolf.com

How to Spin Your Wedges – Andrew Rice

Andrew Rice – PGA Teaching Professional In this episode of the TrackMan Teaching Series, Andrew Rice shows you how to produce that mid-range wedge shot that hits and stops. If you are looking…
blog.trackmangolf.com
Click to expand...


This was interesting. I have always played 50 yard shots square. I do usually hit them with my 58 not my 54. I know I am too steep though I have that issue through the bag.
 
Desmond said:
Don't think so about the outdated open stance. I think square, slightly open, or slightly closed can be used depending on the shot.
Click to expand...

Utley didn't say anything about opening his stance, though he did mention keeping his nose forward of the ball (and visually shifted his weight forward as well). But, he also has the ball forward which counters the steepening aspect.

Here's an article from Utley saying the open stance is INCORRECT:


The problem with opening the stance is it moves the contact point further back in the swing arc which is a steepening move and what most are trying to avoid with getting better contact and higher spin. This is the old school train of though and Hogan was big on it. Ball always forward, but stance open with the wedges and shorter irons to get the low point in a good spot.

Others will tell you to shift your upper body (nose), but not weight (Gareth Raflewski). He's stated that the feet should be 50/50 (or at least feel like weight is 50/50) and to use the arms/body to get the path, angle of attack, and low point where they need to be.
 
-CRW- said:
Utley didn't say anything about opening his stance, though he did mention keeping his nose forward of the ball (and visually shifted his weight forward as well). But, he also has the ball forward which counters the steepening aspect.

Here's an article from Utley saying the open stance is INCORRECT:


The problem with opening the stance is it moves the contact point further back in the swing arc which is a steepening move and what most are trying to avoid with getting better contact and higher spin. This is the old school train of though and Hogan was big on it. Ball always forward, but stance open with the wedges and shorter irons to get the low point in a good spot.

Others will tell you to shift your upper body (nose), but not weight (Gareth Raflewski). He's stated that the feet should be 50/50 (or at least feel like weight is 50/50) and to use the arms/body to get the path, angle of attack, and low point where they need to be.
Click to expand...

I saw that Utley was square in his vids. Utley also spoke to shift the upper body to the front. See the first vid i.e. no right side bend as I state above or stick it in the ground and stay taller through the stroke. I recognize that all weight forward makes the swing steeper but I've got more on the lead than back but shallow the swing and keep the hands even/meutral. I go even when in the rough. I will ask my instructor on Friday - he keeps a lot of tour data although I don't know if it includes chipping.

Will give the neutral weight and more square a shot as the more shallow you are, the better one uses the bounce.

On certain pitches, I will close a bit - like a flop but it depends on the shot.

I think if you overdo any one thing it can throw you off - so you're saying that Sieckmann, the Titleist Guy, is old school. I can buy that. Don't know if he has changed.

I will experiment as I believe consistency is best and not throwing sod over the ball is even better.
 
Chef23 said:
I saw this brief video with PReed talking about having a closed stance for chipping/pitching.


I think it is interesting and am going to give it a try. PReed has an unbelievable short game so things that work for him seem like they are worth a try.
Click to expand...

Good video and no doubt Reed has a great short game.

I have been watching Monte Scheinblum's "Use the Bounce" short game videos and working at using what he teaches therein. Monte advocates a "square or even closed stance" for these short shots as it shallows the swing and exposes more of the bounce. Its been working for me.

I also use a slightly closed stance on all of my wedge shots for the same reason. I picked this up from Eric Cogorno's Senior Masterclass and in fact use a slightly closed stance with all of my clubs, which has helped me get more in to out and draw the ball.
 
Bob M said:
Good video and no doubt Reed has a great short game.

I have been watching Monte Scheinblum's "Use the Bounce" short game videos and working at using what he teaches therein. Monte advocates a "square or even closed stance" for these short shots as it shallows the swing and exposes more of the bounce. Its been working for me.

I also use a slightly closed stance on all of my wedge shots for the same reason. I picked this up from Eric Cogorno's Senior Masterclass and in fact use a slightly closed stance with all of my clubs, which has helped me get more in to out and draw the ball.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it I would say outside of say 20 yards I tend to be square. Inside of that I have always been open. I do try to use the bounce of the wedge though.
 
Chef23 said:
Thinking about it I would say outside of say 20 yards I tend to be square. Inside of that I have always been open. I do try to use the bounce of the wedge though.
Click to expand...

I do the same although I flare the lead foot - my problem with closed is some people will get stuck on a longer pitch or chip. As to open, I've always been fairly slightly open as my instructor keeps on saying "open up" and I resist. I flare. Even people who are closed, if they have their hands forward or don't return loft at impact, or have right side bend, they won't find "closed" to be a panacea.
 
Desmond said:
I do the same although I flare the lead foot - my problem with closed is some people will get stuck on a longer pitch or chip. As to open, I've always been fairly slightly open as my instructor keeps on saying "open up" and I resist. I flare. Even people who are closed, if they have their hands forward or don't return loft at impact, or have right side bend, they won't find "closed" to be a panacea.
Click to expand...

I think I tend to get stuck sometimes and flip my hands (a common problem with all of my swings.) My misses with shorter wedges tend to be on the toe and I am wondering if squaring up and trying to hit out through the ball would help.
 
Chef23 said:
I think I tend to get stuck sometimes and flip my hands (a common problem with all of my swings.) My misses with shorter wedges tend to be on the toe and I am wondering if squaring up and trying to hit out through the ball would help.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about the pitching video with Rice, then a positive club path (in to out) may help but if you are stuck and still coming from the inside, I think you'll still hit toe. I like a slight in to out path on pitches but you've got to release and swing left for a slight in to out path Have the club follow the body left. I stick my lead arm coming down to my left side and go left young man... A severe in to out path for me was toe-ville.
 
And here I am... outdated... and using an open stance for pitching everything from 90 yds in. I ma no change.

I think one of the problems and why people use closed stances when chipping is the lie angle on the shorter clubs is wrong. I had a serious problem hitting pulls. I closed the stance to compensate for that.... for a while. It helped. But it took a lot of practice. Then some old guy in his 80s showed me about using an open stance to hit pitch shots and opening the club face a bit to engage the bounce and I haven't looked back. I'm pretty darn accurate on those shots.
 
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