Eliminate mistakes wherever we can. And a game can always be more well-rounded.

I think this says it all. The two ball is a good idea because it means those shots are in the bag.

My errors and scores add up to mistakes. Bad drives, skilled shanks, etc.

I think once you figure out the drills to do and the ways to fox your game, doesn't have to be lessons you could succeed. Ultimately, play your next round and count how many holes you had a mistake or miscue
 
I hit it reasonably far for a 15hc

I'm not exactly sure what the average HC index is for those serious enough to track it, but I'd guess you're probably just at average. Almost certainly better than the average of all who play the game regularly.

I've taken a few lessons, but just haven't made any real improvements. Do we have an arbitrary number that we just can't climb without significant lessons or time commitments?

I believe most have the ability to improve significantly when a lot of effort is made to recognize and practice weaknesses and they've taken lessons from a coach who gets a student's unique abilities or limitations. If you don't have the time or money, I think you can look for whatever improvement is necessary to the point of bringing a better game to other courses.

Having said that, I think there are some of us who lack the ability to get close to the level of even being average. This is not a self-fulfilled prophecy/opinion. It comes after years of giving 100% of available time and money towards practice, lessons and equipment. I have/had average skills in tennis, basketball, baseball, football... Decent golf simply requires a level of precision that some of us do not possess.

There are worse things than being a 15.
 
I’ve wrestled with this myself. Seems to make it worst when you reflect on the really good shots/holes and wonder why the scores don’t seem to match.

My coach and I recently started tracking stats so we could really focus on the problem areas that are killing the scorecard. Needless to say it can be a bit demoralizing in areas but really seems to indicate how improvement in just a couple of areas has the potential for huge improvements in scoring.

I don’t know the validity of it but the app we use for stats, BirdieFire, has what they call a Pure Score that is supposed to indicate potential if you were to remove the mistakes. It does so by only counting par and under par holes and factoring a potential score. There are people smarter than me that figured that was a logical way to go about it...
 
Carl I’ll be super honest with my assessment after having seen you play on a couple of different occasions.

There is talent there. You can swing and swing hard. It’s more mental than physical ability for you. If you like books, check out Golf is not a game of perfect. It will put some things in perspective for you.

Lastly, in regards to your physical ability, your biggest strength is your biggest weakness. You need to learn to reign in your swing where it’s under control. You’ll hit it plenty far, if not further by toning it down just a hair and not swinging out of your shoes.

Hang in there though. Low scores headed your way again soon!
 
I think everyone has the ability to break 80 on a consistent basis. 1st off playing the right tees are crucial. Then I believe (like many have said) short game and course management. No hero shots, making bogey instead of doubles, getting out of the sand, no “two chips” holes. It’s not about Peak ability, just the mental side of not making mistakes. IMO
 
I think so. I know what scores I just don’t have the mental or physical capabilities to achieve yet, but have also witnessed great stretches during a round where I start to think “is this the day??”
 
I think there are physical and mental abilities that provide some sort of a cap but I do believe most people could get to a ten but it might take lessons, strategy instruction and a commitment to practicing the right way. Lately I play a lot of golf as a single joining with people I don’t know and I generally can take at least 2-5 strokes off the score of someone who shoots in the mid 90s if I was providing strategy and short game advice.

I have some experience with my son who is 21 and just starting to get interested in golf and usually shoots between 95-105. He generally plays 2-5 strokes better with me when I help him know where to play, recommend clubs off the tee and help him with the type of short game shots to hit.
 
As a guy with a horrendous swing I'm inclined to agree at first - but when it comes to golf short game is the great unknown. There is no reason that any player can't exponentially improve their play from 50 yards and in.
 
I'm not exactly sure what the average HC index is for those serious enough to track it, but I'd guess you're probably just at average. Almost certainly better than the average of all who play the game regularly.

Lol, 225yd 5i says nope. He’s way longer than average
 
I don’t know the validity of it but the app we use for stats, BirdieFire, has what they call a Pure Score that is supposed to indicate potential if you were to remove the mistakes. It does so by only counting par and under par holes and factoring a potential score. There are people smarter than me that figured that was a logical way to go about it...
I keep a scorecard from my home course where I log every hole I've par'd, birdie'd and eagle'd. I've shot par on every hole on the course at one time or another, birdied 16 of the 18 and eagled 2 of them. So my composite best on my home course would be -18, or a 54. Chances of all that happening on the same day in the same round? Nil.
 
I think many of us are too hard on ourselves. Golf is hard and developing a repeatable swing and honing short game skills takes massive practice and self-aware work. For most of us, inconsistency dominates our play. Our scores vary quite a bit as a result. It is what it is. I try to accept the challenge and enjoy the pursuit of my goals knowing that the likelihood of meeting them is unrealistic. On course I've improved my attitude significantly, and to be honest that's helping my game. I'm far less tense. Top a tee shot? Chunk an approach? Shank a wedge? Skull a chip? I just laugh. They are part of my game and come out at times. Knowing inconsistency is there, I figure I'll hit a better shot sooner than later. Maybe. :cool:
 
Most certainly, we each have our own "ceiling". How high that ceiling is, can be changed with practice, gear, lessons, ect.
 
There's probably apoint of diminishing return where talent combines with practice and commitment to equal full potential... it's further down the road for some, and a lot closer at hand for others. Mine is stil several states away and I'm nowhere near ever seeing it.:D
 
There's probably apoint of diminishing return where talent combines with practice and commitment to equal full potential... it's further down the road for some, and a lot closer at hand for others. Mine is stil several states away and I'm nowhere near ever seeing it.:D
I don't buy it. You're at least on the highway driving there if you are posting here!

However, I do agree about the Law of Diminishing Returns.
 
I don't buy it. You're at least on the highway driving there if you are posting here!

However, I do agree about the Law of Diminishing Returns.

Diminishing return is a real thing in golf. I've been anywhere from a 2.4 to a +3.5 over the last 40 years and have spent most of that time since age 26 in the 1 to +1 range. My index doesn't seem to move or correlate well with a normal amount of practice, let's say zero to three range sessions/short game sessions each week but it does correlate well with which golf courses I'm playing. Some are just easier for me to score on. I have to practice 10+ hours and play 3+ rounds each week to move my index down to the + side of scratch and to me it's not worth the effort with all my other interests. It tends to get better in the fall when it cools down and most of my free time to golf rather than boating/watersports and hanging out at the lake with friends. Unfortunately, I tend to get really good for a month or so and then winter arrives for 5 months.

We have guests at our cabin pretty much every weekend from Memorial Day through Labor Day and it's my favorite time of the year even though golf takes a back seat to things I'm really good at like driving a boat while drinking beer. :) Diminishing returns is not a thing when hanging out at the lake.

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Diminishing return is a real thing in golf. I've been anywhere from a 2.4 to a +3.5 over the last 40 years and have spent most of that time since age 26 in the 1 to +1 range. My index doesn't seem to move or correlate well with a normal amount of practice, let's say zero to three range sessions/short game sessions each week but it does correlate well with which golf courses I'm playing. Some are just easier for me to score on. I have to practice 10+ hours and play 3+ rounds each week to move my index down to the + side of scratch and to me it's not worth the effort with all my other interests. It tends to get better in the fall when it cools down and most of my free time to golf rather than boating/watersports and hanging out at the lake with friends. Unfortunately, I tend to get really good for a month or so and then winter arrives for 5 months.

We have guests at our cabin pretty much every weekend from Memorial Day through Labor Day and it's my favorite time of the year even though golf takes a back seat to things I'm really good at like driving a boat while drinking beer. :) Diminishing returns is not a thing when hanging out at the lake.

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The Law of Diminishing Returns is akin to the Bell Curve, in that it applies to about 99.9% of everything. The Tour guys have enough time, money, and discipline to hone their game just that little bit to be where they are.
 
I absolutely believe we all have a ceiling. It’s an individual thing. We aren’t all blessed with the same skill levels are potential.

I just use a different term "plateau". Same idea though. It's a leveling off of sorts.
 
The Law of Diminishing Returns is akin to the Bell Curve, in that it applies to about 99.9% of everything. The Tour guys have enough time, money, and discipline to hone their game just that little bit to be where they are.
I'll admit that, when I played on a some what regular basis in my youth that my game did improve.
 
The Law of Diminishing Returns is akin to the Bell Curve, in that it applies to about 99.9% of everything. The Tour guys have enough time, money, and discipline to hone their game just that little bit to be where they are.
But the Tour guys are the ones who had the genetics/innate talent/whatever you want to call it to ever reach that level in the first place. The time, money, discipline and extra effort put them over the top from being very, very good golfers to Tour quality golfers. I don't believe that every Joe Average could become good enough to be a Tour player, no matter how much of all those things they put into their game.
 
I’m a believer in “DirtyHarry’s” philosophy, “a man needs to know his limitations “. I frequently remind the guys I play with that I was a much better cop than I am a golfer, and that’s why I did it for a living instead of playing golf.
I’m still able to make enough shots to keep me returning for more abuse but Tiger has nothing to worry about.
 
@Qwkz51
Anybody with reasonable co-ordination can learn to play golf to a single figure handicap imo.
Mostly everybody who takes up the game falls into the trap of "playing golf" almost immediately they take up the sport. Consequently they ingrain a golf swing which is held together by hand/eye co-ordination and their athleticism. Generally most golfers play the game with the swing technique they started with for the duration of their whole golfing life. Their golf movements mirror other movements and posture in their every day life.
To play to a single handicap a golfer needs to own movements that are essential elements to a golf swing that doesn't rely on hand/eye co-ordination to hit the ball to a target. Movements we learn to cope with everyday life are usually the opposite to what we need in a technically sound golf swing. Consequently when we read golf instruction tips we interpret their meaning to our own movement patterns. We may feel different sensations but the reality is we are performing movements that we have made permanent.
 
I am mixed opinions on this. First, I truly believe there are those who have the athletic talent/skills to do anything well. Apply that to golf, and you are already a step above. Second, golf is a honed sport and needs constant attention and pruning. Everything in golf changes and half the challenge is to adjust to the changes.

I know I have a peak. I have been at a plateau in my game for 3 or 4 years, hovering on the low to mid 80s. So this past winter, I decided that now would be the time to actually invest in myself to see if I could break this plateau and reach for a new peak. So far I think its working. The fittings, the investment of time grooving some new swing traits, the new gear. All in an effort to break the plateau. My new norm seems to be 80. I have already shot more rounds under 80 this year than I did all of last year. Next up is my best round: 74. After that, 72. AFter that.......**shrug**

Do I think I will ever be a pro? No. Do I know I can play better than I have? Hell yes. But each plateau I break requires that much more effort, that much more time, that much more investment. At some point, the incremental gains ( say going from a 2 handicap to + ) isn't worth it. Each of us have to make that choice for ourselves.

That decision, the value proposition, is the peak. Once you reach the point where you either can't or won't invest more in your game, regardless of your talent or the gear or whatever, that is where you will plateau and you either are ok with it or you push to get better and push it further.
 
I currently play to a 9.5, playing once a week. When I’m on vacation, playing a lot I can shave about 4 strokes, kind of feel like that would be my peak ability. Unless I hired a swing coach.
 
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