Esox

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
13,621
Reaction score
166
Location
SE Cheeseland
Handicap
4.7
I once played in a tournament where a crazy guy drove a VW Bug into a scaffolding type tower and it fell on the 18th green. The debris was in my way, but rules officials said I had to play it as it lies, I bounced it off the car and onto the pipes where is rolled around much like a game of Mousetrap. The putt went in and I won the tournament, got my grandma's house back, and won the heart of a pretty blond.

It was my best shot ever.

Kevin
 

Smallville

#WeLoveYouAlex
Albatross 2019 Club Albatross 2020 Club
Staff member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
98,346
Reaction score
308
Location
Kansas City, Kansas
Handicap
In Flux
I once played in a tournament where a crazy guy drove a VW Bug into a scaffolding type tower and it fell on the 18th green. The debris was in my way, but rules officials said I had to play it as it lies, I bounced it off the car and onto the pipes where is rolled around much like a game of Mousetrap. The putt went in and I won the tournament, got my grandma's house back, and won the heart of a pretty blond.

It was my best shot ever.

Kevin
That would have been awesome to see! Is there a video of that SOMEWHERE on the web? hehehe
 

tander

Active member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
1,000
Reaction score
0
Location
Mississippi
Handicap
14
I once played in a tournament where a crazy guy drove a VW Bug into a scaffolding type tower and it fell on the 18th green. The debris was in my way, but rules officials said I had to play it as it lies, I bounced it off the car and onto the pipes where is rolled around much like a game of Mousetrap. The putt went in and I won the tournament, got my grandma's house back, and won the heart of a pretty blond.

It was my best shot ever.

Kevin
I luv a happy ending!!!!
 

v3.0

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
16
Location
--
Handicap
--
I would play if off the clubhouse, if a penalty is the other option. It seems that a shot off the clubhouse should result in a playable next position (similar or better when compared to where it might be dropped under penalty) at worst, and might end up better than that for a bonus.
 

MO_Hacker

At the drag strip
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
53
Location
Kansas City, MO
Handicap
DragRacing
I would play if off the clubhouse, if a penalty is the other option. It seems that a shot off the clubhouse should result in a playable next position (similar or better when compared to where it might be dropped under penalty) at worst, and might end up better than that for a bonus.
Plus it would be fun:act-up: I guess if I was playing for big money maybe I would just take the penalty, if I'm just out with my buddies I'm telling them to protect themselves because I have no idea where the ball is going.
 

Diane

_________________________
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
7,774
Reaction score
49
How high up on the wall would you aim?
 

Smallville

#WeLoveYouAlex
Albatross 2019 Club Albatross 2020 Club
Staff member
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
98,346
Reaction score
308
Location
Kansas City, Kansas
Handicap
In Flux
I have no idea, that's why I would tell whomever was in my group to watch out. haha
Isn't that SOP in your group when you're hitting anyway MO? hehe

Lord, I apologize for talking about MO like that, and be with the starving pygmies down there in New Guinea. Amen.
 

MO_Hacker

At the drag strip
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
53
Location
Kansas City, MO
Handicap
DragRacing
Isn't that SOP in your group when you're hitting anyway MO? hehe

Lord, I apologize for talking about MO like that, and be with the starving pygmies down there in New Guinea. Amen.
LMAO, it's even worse if you're in the group in front of us.
 

Esox

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
13,621
Reaction score
166
Location
SE Cheeseland
Handicap
4.7

JPsuff

Banned
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Messages
1,576
Reaction score
53
Location
LawnGuyland
Handicap
Humane
I would play if off the clubhouse, if a penalty is the other option. It seems that a shot off the clubhouse should result in a playable next position (similar or better when compared to where it might be dropped under penalty) at worst, and might end up better than that for a bonus.

And there is absolutely no difference between what you describe and taking a drop. In fact, I would argue that taking a drop offers a huge advantage over playing it off the clubhouse wall.

Here's why:

Suppose you hit the shot off of the wall and it ricochets into a bunker or deep rough? Now you've placed yourself in a situation where you'd still have to execute a tricky recovery shot yet again. That's because if you play the shot off the wall, there is absolutely no way to guarantee where the ball would end up for your next shot.

But by taking a penalty and a drop, you get to choose where the ball will lay because after your relief, you still have a clublength's area in which to drop your ball and that offers choices you simply wouldn't have with the trick shot. You can drop the ball almost exactly where you'd like it to be for your next shot and you have far more control over the lie than any random shot off a wall could offer.
If you're planning on taking two strokes to get on the green anyway, why not try to have as much control over the situation as you possibly can?
If you hit the trick shot and end up in even worse shape, then what? Double? Triple? More? By taking the penalty and the drop, you now have an opportunity to hit the next pitch or chip very close to the pin and maybe even knock it in and you're likely looking at making bogey at worst.


The only time that I would consider the trick shot is if it were the last hole and I absolutely needed to get down in par or better because in that case, I have nothing to lose. But if a bogey won't hurt me too much, I'd much rather go for that in a way that virtually guarantees no worse, than to roll the dice on something over which I have virtually no control at all.



-JP
 

Esox

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
13,621
Reaction score
166
Location
SE Cheeseland
Handicap
4.7
And there is absolutely no difference between what you describe and taking a drop. In fact, I would argue that taking a drop offers a huge advantage over playing it off the clubhouse wall.

Here's why:

Suppose you hit the shot off of the wall and it ricochets into a bunker or deep rough? Now you've placed yourself in a situation where you'd still have to execute a tricky recovery shot yet again. That's because if you play the shot off the wall, there is absolutely no way to guarantee where the ball would end up for your next shot.

But by taking a penalty and a drop, you get to choose where the ball will lay because after your relief, you still have a clublength's area in which to drop your ball and that offers choices you simply wouldn't have with the trick shot. You can drop the ball almost exactly where you'd like it to be for your next shot and you have far more control over the lie than any random shot off a wall could offer.
If you're planning on taking two strokes to get on the green anyway, why not try to have as much control over the situation as you possibly can?
If you hit the trick shot and end up in even worse shape, then what? Double? Triple? More? By taking the penalty and the drop, you now have an opportunity to hit the next pitch or chip very close to the pin and maybe even knock it in and you're likely looking at making bogey at worst.


The only time that I would consider the trick shot is if it were the last hole and I absolutely needed to get down in par or better because in that case, I have nothing to lose. But if a bogey won't hurt me too much, I'd much rather go for that in a way that virtually guarantees no worse, than to roll the dice on something over which I have virtually no control at all.



-JP
Do you always make the "smart" play? Do you ever cut a wood in over a pond, cut the corner on a dog leg, hit that long iron back into the tough back corner pin, hit a hybrid punch through a tiny opening in the trees and toward the pin? Assuming a flat sided brick or wood sided building, that carom shot is not that much different than some of the shots I listed above. Maybe a half shot penalty.

I like to shoot as low a score as I can every time I play, BUT, I'm going to take a chance or two while I'm out there. The type of shot Diane is talking about is fun, and makes the game interesting. It's the type of shot where three years later when you're sitting in the bar with your playing partners it comes up in conversation.

No one sitting in the bar three years later say, "Hey, JPStuff. Remember that time you took that drop from next to the clubhouse? Man, that was a smart play and a great bogey. That (insert a great score for you here) could have easily been a shot or two higher if you would have tried to bounce it off the building. One of the greatest non-shots I've ever seen played."

Kevin
 

Fourputt

Head Rules Official
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
3,153
Reaction score
25
Location
Logan County, Colorado
Handicap
17.0
I would play if off the clubhouse, if a penalty is the other option. It seems that a shot off the clubhouse should result in a playable next position (similar or better when compared to where it might be dropped under penalty) at worst, and might end up better than that for a bonus.
JP already said it, but I'll say it too. Whether you bounce it off the wall or take a penalty drop, you are still lying one more stroke, but with the penalty drop you have the advantage of having some control over where the ball ends up. With the ricochet shot, you are giving the mischievous gods of golf too much of an opening to dump on you. I will wager that if you and I try this 5 times, I'll win the hole at least 4 out of 5.

And there is absolutely no difference between what you describe and taking a drop. In fact, I would argue that taking a drop offers a huge advantage over playing it off the clubhouse wall.

Here's why:

Suppose you hit the shot off of the wall and it ricochets into a bunker or deep rough? Now you've placed yourself in a situation where you'd still have to execute a tricky recovery shot yet again. That's because if you play the shot off the wall, there is absolutely no way to guarantee where the ball would end up for your next shot.

But by taking a penalty and a drop, you get to choose where the ball will lay because after your relief, you still have a clublength's area in which to drop your ball and that offers choices you simply wouldn't have with the trick shot. You can drop the ball almost exactly where you'd like it to be for your next shot and you have far more control over the lie than any random shot off a wall could offer.
If you're planning on taking two strokes to get on the green anyway, why not try to have as much control over the situation as you possibly can?
If you hit the trick shot and end up in even worse shape, then what? Double? Triple? More? By taking the penalty and the drop, you now have an opportunity to hit the next pitch or chip very close to the pin and maybe even knock it in and you're likely looking at making bogey at worst.
-JP
The part I put in bold is not quite right. You have to drop the ball within a measured 2 clublengths of where the ball lies unplayable... you don't get an additional clublength. It can then roll another 2 clublengths as long as it doesn't roll nearer to the hole.

Do you always make the "smart" play? Do you ever cut a wood in over a pond, cut the corner on a dog leg, hit that long iron back into the tough back corner pin, hit a hybrid punch through a tiny opening in the trees and toward the pin? Assuming a flat sided brick or wood sided building, that carom shot is not that much different than some of the shots I listed above. Maybe a half shot penalty.

I like to shoot as low a score as I can every time I play, BUT, I'm going to take a chance or two while I'm out there. The type of shot Diane is talking about is fun, and makes the game interesting. It's the type of shot where three years later when you're sitting in the bar with your playing partners it comes up in conversation.

No one sitting in the bar three years later say, "Hey, JPStuff. Remember that time you took that drop from next to the clubhouse? Man, that was a smart play and a great bogey. That (insert a great score for you here) could have easily been a shot or two higher if you would have tried to bounce it off the building. One of the greatest non-shots I've ever seen played."

Kevin
I have to tell you that I don't find triple bogies "interesting", nor do I find them "fun", and trying ultra low percentage shots like that generally leads to ultra high numbers. I find it more fun to shoot the lowest score I can, and for me, that means minimizing my mistakes. I don't want my buddies to still be talking 3 years later about the stupid 8 I took on the finishing hole that day because I was dumb enough to try an impossible shot. :eyepoke:
 

Br1an_g

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
651
Reaction score
2
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
Handicap
CONGU 11.7
i would take a penalty drop for the reasons already stated above. i would rather have control of my next shot than not..
 

bigvivec

Banned
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
254
Reaction score
15
Location
Jakarta
Handicap
going 4 it
I'd probably chop backhand with a lofted wedge...
 

Esox

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
13,621
Reaction score
166
Location
SE Cheeseland
Handicap
4.7
I will wager that if you and I try this 5 times, I'll win the hole at least 4 out of 5.
Given a flat sided brick or wood sided building or wall and I'll gladly take that wager. I'd love to have your money in my wallet. At the worst we'd split, and depending on the situation (distance from the hole to the green, slope of the green, etc), I'd win the hole more often than lose it. Of course it all depends on the lie, but I'm trying that shot in quite a few instances and I'm quite confident I can pull it off. If I can get the ball closer to the green than where you can drop it, in most cases that's going to be better. Depending how far away the green is, I'll be hitting either a real short chip or maybe even putting after the carom shot, where you'll be hitting a longer chip, a flop, or a pitch from behind a green which is rarely a good situation.

Not to mention if we're playing a match, when I pull that shot off you're going to be very disappointed. I don't play stupid, but I'm also not afraid to take a chance now and then.

Of course there's more than a few conservative plays I think average golfers make that hurt them more than help them. Especially when it comes to not hitting driver off the tee.

Kevin

In reality, how many time does this happen? I've been playing for 36 years and have bounced the ball off a tree or wall I think maybe three times.
 

Hanks

On the Fringe
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
25,491
Reaction score
136
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Handicap
bOOBs
Off the wall....off the building....off buddy's head....nothing but cup!
 

C-Tech

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
3,044
Reaction score
18
Location
Tucson, AZ
Handicap
11.5
C'mon, guys....Man Up! Hit the shot.
 

provisional

Could Care Less
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
14
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Handicap
10+/-
This is one shot I have never faced during a round of golf, but one that I wish to someday. I would hit the ball off the wall if the situation was right, and the percentages were with me. I have even practiced this shot a few times in my back yard, using our block wall. Nothing hard mind you, but just enough to see what the ball would do.
 

bigvivec

Banned
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
254
Reaction score
15
Location
Jakarta
Handicap
going 4 it
[YOUTUBE]BEDdaNNIh6w[/YOUTUBE]

This is a decent percentage shot if you practice it a little...
 

JPsuff

Banned
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Messages
1,576
Reaction score
53
Location
LawnGuyland
Handicap
Humane
Do you always make the "smart" play? Do you ever cut a wood in over a pond, cut the corner on a dog leg, hit that long iron back into the tough back corner pin, hit a hybrid punch through a tiny opening in the trees and toward the pin?
All of the shots you've described above are all shots over which I have total control. By that I mean that I can assess the situation, decide on how I'm going to hit the shot and with what club and then I execute that shot. I've done that plenty of times and though not always successfully, I'd say that more often than not I'll either hit the shot I wanted or very close to it. But those shots are the result of conscious, educated decisions and very little is left to chance.

Assuming a flat sided brick or wood sided building, that carom shot is not that much different than some of the shots I listed above. Maybe a half shot penalty.
This is VERY different because unless you routinely practice such shots and understand all of the geometry and physics of such things, you have little control over the outcome. Combine that with the fact in such a case you have ZERO ability to make the ball spin in any controlled manner nor can you precisely control its direction, loft or speed.


I like to shoot as low a score as I can every time I play, BUT, I'm going to take a chance or two while I'm out there. The type of shot Diane is talking about is fun, and makes the game interesting. It's the type of shot where three years later when you're sitting in the bar with your playing partners it comes up in conversation.

No one sitting in the bar three years later say, "Hey, JPStuff. Remember that time you took that drop from next to the clubhouse? Man, that was a smart play and a great bogey. That (insert a great score for you here) could have easily been a shot or two higher if you would have tried to bounce it off the building. One of the greatest non-shots I've ever seen played."

Kevin

The two paragraphs above are all about ego.
Yes, it's "boring" to talk about penalty drops and clublength guidelines, but in the very particular situation as has been addressed in this thread, I'll live with that.

Here's something that I HAVE bragged about: I was once faced with a shot from within the tree line of one particular hole and I was 184 yards away from a slightly elevated green. The green was guarded by some old growth oaks in the 40 to 50 foot range and though I was in a relatively clear area, there was a large, low-limbed oak in my path about 50 yards ahead of my ball.

Here's how the shot had to go: Start the ball off very low so that I could fly it under the low-limbed oak, then have the ball catch the wind (about 10 mph into me) and soar upwards to a height sufficient to clear those big old oaks guarding the green and then having the ball "die" in the wind (which would be a bit stronger above the tree line) and then drop onto the green.

I ended up with a 12-foot putt for birdie - which unfortunately I didn't make - and "settled" for a par.

THAT is a shot worth bragging about because of all of the thought, planning and execution that went into it. Anyone can ricochet a ball off of a wall and hope for the best, but how many people could hit the shot I described and have it work so perfectly?

Which shot earns more "bragging rights"?

The biggest reason why so many people find it hard to succeed at this game is because their ego gets in the way. Or more accurately, they suffer from the inability to resist the "go for it" mentality when the situation they're facing is showing more Red Flags than an Olympic slalom course.

It may take eighteen complete holes to post a total score, but it only takes one or two really bad decisions to have that score end up many strokes higher than it could have - or should have been.

I like to pull off the "miracle shot" every now and then just like anyone else. But more often than not, those shots are not really all that miraculous as much as they're the result of good planning, good execution and a realistic assessment of both the situation and my abilities.

If that's boring, I'm totally fine with it.


-JP
 

Fourputt

Head Rules Official
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
3,153
Reaction score
25
Location
Logan County, Colorado
Handicap
17.0
In reality, how many time does this happen? I've been playing for 36 years and have bounced the ball off a tree or wall I think maybe three times.
I've been playing as long as you and have never played such a shot..... intentionally. :laughing: I've never been in such a situation where the object in question wasn't an obstruction offering relief without penalty.

Like JP, I've played (and pulled off) plenty of low percentage shots, but only when any alternatives were as bad or worse. It's definitely fun to execute such a shot, but how many times do we fail for each success? The successes remain in the memory, the failures tend to fade away.

I used to have an automatic "go for it" personality on the golf course, but I've blown tournaments because of just one bad decision. I don't like that feeling even more than I don't like penalty strokes, so I've learned to control my ego and take the safe route when the percentages point that way. I let the entire situation dictate the decision, including the lie, the geography of the course between me and the hole, the potentiality for disaster, and the state of the round or match. There is no such thing as an automatic "go for it" or an automatic "play it safe". Every scenario is different and must be evaluated on its own merits.

If that's boring golf to you, then so be it. :golf2:
 

CB_fierce

Sensationalist...
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Location
GA
Handicap
4
I think the shot you make is very situational, as Im sure some people have stated.

If I am out having fun with my friends, and nothing much is riding on it, I turn around and bank it, no question, just for the fun of hitting the shot, and the opportunity for something good to happen.

If it is a tournament, or if I am in a match, and a bogey is an acceptable score, Im taking an unplayable lie. Ive been on the receiving end of way too many high numbers from trying to hit the 1/100 chance shot when it counts :\.
 

C-Tech

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
3,044
Reaction score
18
Location
Tucson, AZ
Handicap
11.5
[YOUTUBE]BEDdaNNIh6w[/YOUTUBE]

This is a decent percentage shot if you practice it a little...
After reading about this technique is Pelz's book, I have practiced and used it several times with varying levels of success. I have never used it and then thought that it was a mistake because I never got myself in more trouble using it.
 

Fourputt

Head Rules Official
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
3,153
Reaction score
25
Location
Logan County, Colorado
Handicap
17.0
After reading about this technique is Pelz's book, I have practiced and used it several times with varying levels of success. I have never used it and then thought that it was a mistake because I never got myself in more trouble using it.
The thing is, with the shot that this thread is about that backhanded shot wouldn't be any more useful than a normal shot. The scenario as I read it is that there is no room for a normal backswing, so this shot would have that same difficulty. I've used that backhanded shot before too, to pitch away from a tree trunk.
 

Welcome to The Hackers Paradise

Don't just play golf, live it!

Register Log in
Top