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Playing it down

easy_13 said:
I don't necessarily disagree. I think you can make an argument for 2 off the first sometimes, like when circumstances force you to get to the course 15 minutes before your tee time and you have to get straight out of your car and hit a tee shot.
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We only play "breakfast ball" if the course has no range to warm up on before the round. Many of our muni's around here have no range facilities, just a putting/chipping green.
 
NoLine said:
Agreed, no problem with lift, clean, place if that is the rule for the day because of weather or course conditions but 2 off the tee or hitting until your happy is not a round of golf but a range session.
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Same thoughts here. I never heard of 2 off the tee before this post. But at my home course, there is a sign up on the first tee stating the local rules for the day. If its wet (often is until this time of the year) in certain areas, then it is played up. If dry or normal, it is played down. Either way it is on display for all to see at the first tee. That way there are no questions if you aren't playing in a friendly foursome haha
 
I always play it down unless huge gobs of mud or imbedded, and the courses I play don't have the manpower to declare overly wet/winter conditions so I do take the liberty of making such decisions myself but err toward playing it as it lies. How else do you learn to hit such shots when you have to? I find it funny when playing partners give me crap for not fluffing my lie, there are rounds I have seen people go all around the course fluffing every single lie and then declare some great score they just achieved. That has to be good for at least a 5 stroke if not 10 stroke improvement on their card had they played real golf, is the only time I am ever tempted to play someone for money, but we will play by the rules! I just don't get it, how do you know when you actually have improved your game? Others can do as they please but I want to take pride in my good scores.
 
My course can be pretty wet. They had serious flooding last year that caused some damage that is still evident in some places. We have one hole where they allow you to bump it on most of the hole. In club events they also allow you to treat bare spots in the fairway as ground under repair. In the Spring we had a lot of casual water and plugged balls so we get relief.

People think I'm nuts, but I always play it as it lies no matter the location on the "Winter Rules" hole. and also hit it from the bare spots (I haven't found many to be honest so it hasn't been an issue). Moving it makes me uncomfortable, like a foot long hot dog. I do move it from the wet or plugged lies obviously, but then it's a drop, not a fluff. I'm not a fan of moving the ball. I post every score I shoot, and don't feel moving it is appropriate.

First tee mulligans ain't my thing either. It's the toughest shot in a round of golf. I don't believe in do overs.

Kevin
 
DonW said:
I always play it down unless huge gobs of mud or imbedded, and the courses I play don't have the manpower to declare overly wet/winter conditions so I do take the liberty of making such decisions myself but err toward playing it as it lies. How else do you learn to hit such shots when you have to? I find it funny when playing partners give me crap for not fluffing my lie, there are rounds I have seen people go all around the course fluffing every single lie and then declare some great score they just achieved. That has to be good for at least a 5 stroke if not 10 stroke improvement on their card had they played real golf, is the only time I am ever tempted to play someone for money, but we will play by the rules! I just don't get it, how do you know when you actually have improved your game? Others can do as they please but I want to take pride in my good scores.
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Some people I've played with it could be good for 15 - 20 strokes a round. They might not have the shot in their bag to hit from the lie they land in. By lift, clean and place, they can take that shot off the course for the most part.
 
Why play the game if you're not going to play it as it lies? Isn't that part of the fun? Getting yourself in situations your clueless how to get out of but you know for the next time. Play it as it lies or don't play is my feeling! (except of course wet rules apply)


Tapatalk... Loved by me hated by the wife.
 
DonW said:
I always play it down unless huge gobs of mud or imbedded, and the courses I play don't have the manpower to declare overly wet/winter conditions so I do take the liberty of making such decisions myself but err toward playing it as it lies. How else do you learn to hit such shots when you have to? I find it funny when playing partners give me crap for not fluffing my lie, there are rounds I have seen people go all around the course fluffing every single lie and then declare some great score they just achieved. That has to be good for at least a 5 stroke if not 10 stroke improvement on their card had they played real golf, is the only time I am ever tempted to play someone for money, but we will play by the rules! I just don't get it, how do you know when you actually have improved your game? Others can do as they please but I want to take pride in my good scores.
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That's funny, I watched a guy kicking his ball out of the woods all afternoon on Sunday then declaring birdies and pars when he holed out. He claims to be my handicap, I truly hope we meet in our championship, it will be fun to watch his first round of the year.
 
NoLine said:
That's funny, I watched a guy kicking his ball out of the woods all afternoon on Sunday then declaring birdies and pars when he holed out. He claims to be my handicap, I truly hope we meet in our championship, it will be fun to watch his first round of the year.
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Those are the best. I actually play in the scratch division at my course, even though I'm on the line between the scratch and the b flight for my handicap. I'd rather play up a division because I post all my scores and keep score correctly. I know alot of the people in the b flight are good too, but I know a few who don't really keep score the right way and claim to be 11- 15 handicaps, when they are probably about an 18-19. I know all (read most) of the players in the scratch division keep score and post scores every round.
 
In a league I was playing in last week, they had a lift/clean/place rule due to the heavy rains we have been having here. Usually this does not bother me, but when you see people lift/clean/put the ball wherever they want, it really bothers me.

Two off the first, play it as it lies is fine. Two off the first, playing it up; would basically mean that no one should have a bad tee shot.
 
From the USGA rulebook:

1-3. Agreement to Waive Rules
Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 1-3:
Match play — Disqualification of both sides; Stroke play — Disqualification of competitors concerned.

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
· the position or lie of his ball,
· the area of his intended stance or swing,
· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
· pressing a club on the ground,
· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
· removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
· in fairly taking his stance,
· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard - see Rule 13-4.
 
I believe in playing it down, but I think even the USGA would break its own rules if it saw some of the conditions on courses around here. The current economy and weather conditions often make it impossible to play the ball as it lies. I've played on courses this summer where bunkers haven't had sand it them or been raked in months. Many have standing water from last week's rain. The courses simply don't have the finances or manpower to keep them playable. I'll still play from there if possible, but it really sucks to play out of a greenside bunker full of dirt as hard as the cart path.
 
PLay it down. Always. Don't care what others do. Your scorecard is your total score, not the foursome's total score.
 
I'll always play it as it lies with 2 exceptions:-

1) Our course can get a bit boggy in places over the winter as it's on a hill, so we have tend to have declarations of preferred lies on all parts of the course, or fairways only depending on conditions. Even then I'll only make use of that if the ball's got badly plugged or it's covered in mud.

2) If we're playing a social round where we're not in a comp or keeping score. Then if we end up in an unplayable area we'll just move the ball to where we can hit it and carry on. When I say unplayable, I don't mean just in the rough or something a bit difficult, but up against trees, very close to bushes, etc. We're there for enjoyment so don't take it too seriously.
 
No_Three_Jacks said:
My last club we had a noon game and played 2 off the first and played it down (unless rainy and wet). My new club plays 2 off the first but you have to play the second one if you hit it and they play it up. Playing it up has been strange for me. My question is this.... How often do you guys play the ball down everywhere?
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Always down. Always. Never even understood the mindset which would play any other way. Actually, I play by the rules, and they say play the ball as it lies unless there is a specific exception (Embedded ball, for example). So that's what I do.
 
BogbeastUK said:
I'll always play it as it lies with 2 exceptions:-

1) Our course can get a bit boggy in places over the winter as it's on a hill, so we have tend to have declarations of preferred lies on all parts of the course, or fairways only depending on conditions. Even then I'll only make use of that if the ball's got badly plugged or it's covered in mud.

2) If we're playing a social round where we're not in a comp or keeping score. Then if we end up in an unplayable area we'll just move the ball to where we can hit it and carry on. When I say unplayable, I don't mean just in the rough or something a bit difficult, but up against trees, very close to bushes, etc. We're there for enjoyment so don't take it too seriously.
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I agree. I won't damage a club with a fun round, big rocks, tree roots...etc. I'll take a drop. I've played with a lot of people who always improve their lies. If it's just a fun round, no problem. If we're playing for anything more than a beer, you're playing the ball as it lies!
 
DonW said:
I always play it down unless huge gobs of mud or imbedded, and the courses I play don't have the manpower to declare overly wet/winter conditions so I do take the liberty of making such decisions myself but err toward playing it as it lies. How else do you learn to hit such shots when you have to? I find it funny when playing partners give me crap for not fluffing my lie, there are rounds I have seen people go all around the course fluffing every single lie and then declare some great score they just achieved. That has to be good for at least a 5 stroke if not 10 stroke improvement on their card had they played real golf, is the only time I am ever tempted to play someone for money, but we will play by the rules! I just don't get it, how do you know when you actually have improved your game? Others can do as they please but I want to take pride in my good scores.
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Good post Don. I love it when people say "The game is hard enough as it is..." Well then, try something else.
 
I also only play the ball as it lies. Whether covered in mud, lying on rocks/roots etc. I also never take a second off the tee without declaring a provisional or unplayable regardless of whether I could warm up or not.

But, seeing as how most here think the same way, I've also seen a lot of people say to play the game the way that allows you to have fun. Then there are those that say 'play for fun' but 'don't post the score'. Does it bother you guys so much that you won't play with someone if they take mulligans, improve their lie, and then talk about how great their score is?
 
If my ball is muddy, ill clean it. If Im on a root, Ill move it. If I lose a ball in deep rough but I know where it is, Ill drop one for no penalty. Im here to play golf, I like hitting shots. I battle my competitors, not the course conditions or bad luck, I dont play on tour.

I would also like to add that I dont go through the process to "drop" balls, I just toss one down, and I only play stroke and distance if I honestly didnt know it couldve gone out of bounds. If I hit one off of the tee out of bounds and didnt know until I got up there, Ill play it as a red stake + a stroke. I understand the concept of a provisional and use it as much as possible.

The rules of golf make golf have too many processes and Ive seen people lose passion for the game because of other people throwing the rulebook at them.


__________________
But for posted rounds and serious rounds (once or twice every two weeks), or playing at special courses that I want to post the score, Ill go through most of the processes of playing by the book. But I wont cheat.
 
dtak84 said:
But, seeing as how most here think the same way, I've also seen a lot of people say to play the game the way that allows you to have fun. Then there are those that say 'play for fun' but 'don't post the score'. Does it bother you guys so much that you won't play with someone if they take mulligans, improve their lie, and then talk about how great their score is?
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I've played for years (15+) with a guy who's rules are: 2 mulligans a side, fluf thy lie, pick up any putt you want, 14 clubs is just a suggestion. It used to really bother me and I called him on it a few times (picking up a 3 foot birdie putt put me over the edge) but we never played for money so I got over it. When he would tell me what he "shot", I'd just add 4 or 6 to his number. He even did this while keeping a handicap at a club he belonged to for a few years.
 
dtak84 said:
But, seeing as how most here think the same way, I've also seen a lot of people say to play the game the way that allows you to have fun. Then there are those that say 'play for fun' but 'don't post the score'. Does it bother you guys so much that you won't play with someone if they take mulligans, improve their lie, and then talk about how great their score is?
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Quite frankly, I don't usually enjoy playing with someone like that. I'm not an on course rules preacher or anything of the sort, but I'd rather play with someone who at least makes an attempt to play by the rules as he knows them.
 
TC said:
Playing it down means playing it as it lies. I typically always play that way unless the course is saturated and balls plug and stuff.
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Plus one. I always play it as it lies unless it's plugged. I'm not sure waht the rule is on a plugged ball though.
 
I try to play it down with the exception of aeration holes in the fairway, or off rocks I'll roll it out of those and take a stroke penalty for the rocks.
 
easy_13 said:
I believe in playing it down, but I think even the USGA would break its own rules if it saw some of the conditions on courses around here. The current economy and weather conditions often make it impossible to play the ball as it lies. I've played on courses this summer where bunkers haven't had sand it them or been raked in months. Many have standing water from last week's rain. The courses simply don't have the finances or manpower to keep them playable. I'll still play from there if possible, but it really sucks to play out of a greenside bunker full of dirt as hard as the cart path.
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I agree with that. I think the USGA rules are kind of made on expensive pristine courses not where there are 20yd wide patches of crabgrass and dirt in the middle of the fairway.
 
Fourputt said:
Quite frankly, I don't usually enjoy playing with someone like that. I'm not an on course rules preacher or anything of the sort, but I'd rather play with someone who at least makes an attempt to play by the rules as he knows them.
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I tend to agree with this, its a matter of honesty and integrity. It's like a guy who wears a toupee, what else are you lying to me about buddy?
 
Only if I'm playing in a tourney or skins game. I will hit 2 off #1, move ball from rocks, roots, barespots, wipe mud...etc. I don't post scores for handicaps and I'm there to enjoy being able to play. I will tell you I shot around a certain score since I will hit another or play 2 balls sometimes. Mulligan Andy is a scratch golfer but I don't claim to be one in person. For a causual round I have no problem with someone moving it or hitting another one. I'm just happy to be on the course.
 
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