Playing Out of a Divot?

[MWard]

Probably nothing, but some of us enjoy playing by the rules. Nothing says everyone else has to. We just enjoy it.

There's nothing wrong with someone who plays it by the book. But if I'm playing with you and I'm over tree roots, don't mind me moving it to an equally poor lie, still hindered by trees and all that, because I don't want to damage my club or my wrists.

 

[JB]

Probably nothing, but some of us enjoy playing by the rules. Nothing says everyone else has to. We just enjoy it.

Im not sure how many times it can be said. This isn't about playing vs breaking the rules. This is about should the rules be changed. In this scenario, everybody would be playing by the rules. Just this year we had massive changes to the ROG by the governing bodies.

 

[OGputtnfool]

That’s one of the reasons why it’s such a great game. Fun and frustration in equal measures.

I agree, but think it might be closer to 75:25 frustration to fun most of the time.

 

[Canadan]

There's nothing wrong with someone who plays it by the book. But if I'm playing with you and I'm over tree roots, don't mind me moving it to an equally poor lie, still hindered by trees and all that, because I don't want to damage my club or my wrists.

HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?!

 

[OGputtnfool]

There's nothing wrong with someone who plays it by the book. But if I'm playing with you and I'm over tree roots, don't mind me moving it to an equally poor lie, still hindered by trees and all that, because I don't want to damage my club or my wrists.

First of all, we're on a tangent so if we get scolded, it's your fault.

Second, I'm not sure how a shot off a tree root could damage your club or wrist. It's simple to just punch it off maybe 5-10 yards away to get a cleaner lie, better angle, etc. without doing any damage whatsoever.

Finally, if you do decide to move the ball, that's perfectly reasonable and within the rules. Just follow the procedure for an unplayable lie and assess the necessary strokes.

It's not cruel nor unusual. It's just the game we all love.

 

[VegasMav]

A fairway is a fairway is a fairway. I don't even care if it's the wrong fairway lmao

Okay, good, because that was another question I was thinking about. I've had my share of hitting into divots in the wrong fairways.

 

[MWard]

First of all, we're on a tangent so if we get scolded, it's your fault.

Second, I'm not sure how a shot off a tree root could damage your club or wrist. It's simple to just punch it off maybe 5-10 yards away to get a cleaner lie, better angle, etc. without doing any damage whatsoever.

Finally, if you do decide to move the ball, that's perfectly reasonable and within the rules. Just follow the procedure for an unplayable lie and assess the necessary strokes.

It's not cruel nor unusual. It's just the game we all love.

Said by someone who has never punched off a tree root, or had a club snap around a tree because you found a hidden root under your ball and it deflected things a bit.

 

[Scorp]

HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?!

Like a baby! I'd do the same thing. My clubs may only be $300 but I'm not gouging them because of a rock.

First of all, we're on a tangent so if we get scolded, it's your fault.

Second, I'm not sure how a shot off a tree root could damage your club or wrist. It's simple to just punch it off maybe 5-10 yards away to get a cleaner lie, better angle, etc. without doing any damage whatsoever.

Finally, if you do decide to move the ball, that's perfectly reasonable and within the rules. Just follow the procedure for an unplayable lie and assess the necessary strokes.

It's not cruel nor unusual. It's just the game we all love.

Apparently, you've never hit a root and had the pain go through your palm, wrist and into your elbow and linger for a few minutes or hours or days. some of us don't like that so we won't do that.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Said by someone who has never punched off a tree root, or had a club snap around a tree because you found a hidden root under your ball and it deflected things a bit.

I have never had a club snap, but you're kidding yourself if you think I've never played off of or beside a tree root before.

I'm not sure how a hidden root would enter the discussion though. If it's hidden, then you wouldn't know to move the ball away from it.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Apparently, you've never hit a root and had the pain go through your palm, wrist and into your elbow and linger for a few minutes or hours or days. some of us don't like that so we won't do that.

Did you know the root was there before the swing?

 

[Phil75070]

Not really anymore. You can now ground your club in a hazard, you cannot in a bunker...

In my estimation, lacking a Decisions book now, I would still interpret it as it used to be. If you can't find relief from the water within the bunker, then it is no longer a bunker but a "penalty area" and now you can ground your club should you so desire to play it from there. The alternative would be a loose interpretation ("Loose" to me) of "abnormal ground conditions" and this being deemed "temporary water" though that, I believe, is more intended for what we have always referred to as "casual" water such as you might find in the fairway. In a tournament I believe it would be the obligation of the Committee to make that determination. Playing a "casual" round, even if you have something on the match, then you are the committee and can make that determination among yourselves how to play it and whether to offer free relief.

 

[JB]

In my estimation, lacking a Decisions book now, I would still interpret it as it used to be. If you can't find relief from the water within the bunker, then it is no longer a bunker but a "penalty area" and now you can ground your club should you so desire to play it from there. The alternative would be a loose interpretation ("Loose" to me) of "abnormal ground conditions" and this being deemed "temporary water" though that, I believe, is more intended for what we have always referred to as "casual" water such as you might find in the fairway. In a tournament I believe it would be the obligation of the Committee to make that determination. Playing a "casual" round, even if you have something on the match, then you are the committee and can make that determination among yourselves how to play it and whether to offer free relief.

Which is what both @Canadan and I said in regards to committee. It was met with a rather "unique" perspective on committees in this thread
With that said, it is not considered the same as a hazard anymore.

 

[Nate]

Your position suggests divots are the only bad lies one can get in a fairway. If it's about rewarding the player, preferred lies seems to be the only fair solution since it would always be applicable.

Being in a burnt out section of the fairway, having my ball settle into a seam of old sod, longer grass that the mower missed, there are a whole host of potential imperfections in the fairway.

Sounds familiar.....LOL. As I stated yesterday, this is my hang up. Where should the line be drawn if ultimately divots are considered. High grass not mowed correctly? Dirt patch? Soggy grass? It’s a grey area.

 

[Pantherhawk]

Sounds familiar.....LOL. As I stated yesterday, this is my hang up. Where should the line be drawn if ultimately divots are considered. High grass not mowed correctly? Dirt patch? Soggy grass? It’s a grey area.

That part doesn't really bother me. There are grey areas all the time in golf rules. You just need to agree with your partner/rules official and make the call. I don't think that would be unique to getting relief from divots.

 

[Sox_Fan]

Fairway - relief if all in group agree that it is in fact a divot.

Rough - play it as it lies even if clearly in a divot. Miss the fairway, pay the price.

Yes, a lot of people would try to take advantage. That's why it should be agreed upon by other members in the group before taking relief.

 

[mancest]

honestly, I am fine with moving out of a divot freshly dug or almost healed and every thing in between. Lift clean and place whatever you want to do as long as everyone is playing under the same rules.

I could lift clean and place every single shot for the summer and I don't think it would effect my handicap all that much.

 

[Canadan]

Which is what both @Canadan and I said in regards to committee. It was met with a rather "unique" perspective on committees in this thread
With that said, it is not considered the same as a hazard anymore.

I think the best argument against it is not rub of the green, but rather, consistency - and frankly, I can respect that.

What I love about the game of golf though, is how aggressively we police ourselves and each other. Casual round? Who the hell cares, it's your score, and your handicap, do whatever makes you happy. Tournament round? There's a tournament head for a reason. Money game with the boys? Well, now we get to see who we're REALLY spending our time with.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

I had a tee shot roll into a divot in the rough yesterday and immediately thought of @Canadan

 

[Canadan]

I had a tee shot roll into a divot in the rough yesterday and immediately thought of @Canadan

wait, the rough? Based on memory of your exceptional skill, I would only assume that means you hit it THROUGH a fairway.

 

[#troy]

i'm all for having the rule changed, but until it is, play it as it lies.

As for when is it considered not under repair would be a judgement call mostly, visible sand/dirt would be basic, move no closer to hole within a club length.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Copy and pasted quote by Nate from above (not sure why my computer at work is acting up with the quote feature)

Sounds familiar.....LOL. As I stated yesterday, this is my hang up. Where should the line be drawn if ultimately divots are considered. High grass not mowed correctly? Dirt patch? Soggy grass? It’s a grey area.

Exactly this. Even if the committee, pro shop, rules official, designated spectator, or whoever is chosen is capable of making rulings, can you imagine the demand. They'd never be able to stop. They'd be pulled from one fairway to another to look at "divots" that were made a week or so ago and were healed. Then, there'd be an argument over whether it really is healed or still under repair. Groups would be waiting for rulings and delaying play. Chaos would reign!

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

wait, the rough? Based on memory of your exceptional skill, I would only assume that means you hit it THROUGH a fairway.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I spend a lot of time in the rough.

 

[Scorp]

Did you know the root was there before the swing?

in my experience playing the courses I have, roots normally are expected to be close to the ground surface around trees and bushes. So, yes. I knew the root was there. And I moved my ball after trying to hero shot in my youth and hitting a root.

 

[Phil75070]

When did the expectation begin that we are entitled to a perfect lie just because we hit the ball in the fairway? Probably has something to do with when golf started to be televised and the conditions that the pros paly under became the standard for the rest of us. Even then, as perfect as conditions may be at the start of the week, unrepaired divots and balls ending up in them still happens to them. I doubt the fields and pastures where golf was first invented were manicured and pristine.

 

[OGputtnfool]

You can remove rocks and sticks and such without moving your ball. Or take a penalty stroke and drop out of the bunker no closer to the hole.

Isn't that more improving your area of intended play than the lie itself? As far as the 2nd part, I thought you had to take 2 penalty strokes to drop out of the bunker. Either way, I have no problem with anyone, anytime (dare I use absolutes) taking a penalty for moving their ball out of a divot.