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Playing Out of a Divot?

Scorpion12 said:
in my experience playing the courses I have, roots normally are expected to be close to the ground surface around trees and bushes. So, yes. I knew the root was there. And I moved my ball after trying to hero shot in my youth and hitting a root.
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Sounds like the problem wasn't that you hit it off the root. Sounds like the problem was, you tried to hit it too hard when you had a good reason to believe there was a root underneath. Do you still think it would have been a problem for your wrists and/or the club if you'd have simply tried to hit a 1/4 shot and punch it out of the woods, into the fairway, away from the root, etc.?
 
Phil75070 said:
When did the expectation begin that we are entitled to a perfect lie just because we hit the ball in the fairway? Probably has something to do with when golf started to be televised and the conditions that the pros paly under became the standard for the rest of us. Even then, as perfect as conditions may be at the start of the week, unrepaired divots and balls ending up in them still happens to them. I doubt the fields and pastures where golf was first invented were manicured and pristine.
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I think the term 'entitled' is a tough one to use here.

There are so many rules that are being incorporated into the game to improve the overall experience. If we look at the way things were fifty years ago, those guys would probably tell us we shouldn't feel 'entitled' to a true roll on a putting green, yet the times allow for that level of experience.
 
Canadan said:
those guys would probably tell us we shouldn't feel 'entitled' to a true roll on a putting green,
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Play some of the courses I play and you'll wonder if the times allow for a true roll.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Isn't that more improving your area of intended play than the lie itself? As far as the 2nd part, I thought you had to take 2 penalty strokes to drop out of the bunker. Either way, I have no problem with anyone, anytime (dare I use absolutes) taking a penalty for moving their ball out of a divot.
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1, 2... whatever it takes. I make no claim about being an expert on the rules.:D

OGputtnfool said:
Sounds like the problem wasn't that you hit it off the root. Sounds like the problem was, you tried to hit it too hard when you had a good reason to believe there was a root underneath. Do you still think it would have been a problem for your wrists and/or the club if you'd have simply tried to hit a 1/4 shot and punch it out of the woods, into the fairway, away from the root, etc.?
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Whatever the case may be, I learned a lesson. It's painful. Now that I use more expensive clubs than back then (not by much) I'm not risking gouges to them by hitting a visible root or rock. I don't care what the rules say. I get the intent and the spirit of the rules. And I'm moving my ball.
 
Scorpion12 said:
1, 2... whatever it takes. I make no claim about being an expert on the rules.:D



Whatever the case may be, I learned a lesson. It's painful. Now that I use more expensive clubs than back then (not by much) I'm not risking gouges to them by hitting a visible root or rock. I don't care what the rules say. I get the intent and the spirit of the rules. And I'm moving my ball.
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I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying you shouldn't move it because you are a meanie pants for not taking the penalty strokes. If I'm not playing you for money or pride, I don't care what you do. I'm saying that just because it's lying on a rock or root doesn't mean you have to move it to protect yourself or your clubs. I fully agree that if you take a 85% (or whatever your normal speed) swing at a ball lying on a root that's between the ball and your intended line that you'll screw something up... club, wrist, or maybe put an eye out when the ball bounces straight up. I'm just saying that's not the only option. Why not just hit a 10% or so shot perpendicular to the root and take it out of play. Easy, peasy... and you'll likely harm neither club nor body.
 
OGputtnfool said:
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying you shouldn't move it because you are a meanie pants for not taking the penalty strokes. If I'm not playing you for money or pride, I don't care what you do. I'm saying that just because it's lying on a rock or root doesn't mean you have to move it to protect yourself or your clubs. I fully agree that if you take a 85% (or whatever your normal speed) swing at a ball lying on a root that's between the ball and your intended line that you'll screw something up... club, wrist, or maybe put an eye out when the ball bounces straight up. I'm just saying that's not the only option. Why not just hit a 10% or so shot perpendicular to the root and take it out of play. Easy, peasy... and you'll likely harm neither club nor body.
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Nope, I'm not missing your point. Meanie pants.:ROFLMAO:

If it's down to me hitting 10% shot to protect myself and clubs, I'm just going to foot wedge it. More fun and a better chance for a 3 stooges prat fall.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Scorpion12 said:
Nope, I'm not missing your point. Meanie pants.:ROFLMAO:

If it's down to me hitting 10% shot to protect myself and clubs, I'm just going to foot wedge it. More fun and a better chance for a 3 stooges prat fall.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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Like I said... as long as we're not playing for money or pride...
 
It's all good bro
 
Long read but plenty of interesting/entertaining points batted about so I'll throw my thoughts out there. The only downsides I see to adopting this hypothetical change is the ambiguity of what qualifies and it provides yet another mechanism for those inclined to cheat. Another smaller issue might be those (like myself) who know how to play from divots and don't fear them might lose some tiny advantage those rare times me or my opponent find one.

That said, I still think overall it's a potentially positive rule change that should at least be considered. If a golfer either plays it as is or opts to drop his/her ball directly behind the divot (within a foot - no closer) what really changed? Some 'rub of the green' randomness is gone, that's about it. The golfer still faces the exact shot their last swing swing earned them, sans the bad break caused by a lazy predecessor. I do think the hypothetical might have to be enacted in the rough too though, simply because so many other rules define different options 'through the green' versus 'in a hazard'. I get that might open another can of worms but maybe just wording it such that the ball can't be dropped into a shorter cut classification would suffice?

ps - I enjoyed the read more before OGPF played the 150 stake ricochet card. Too soon. Last month I decided to take my medicine from a fairway trap. Rather than risk trying to carry the creek bisecting the fairway just layup and accept a longer 3rd into the par 5 18th. My sweet looking layup hits the top cap on the 150 marker and kicks into said creek😢
 
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Roll the ball back!

Literally. Like, a couple inches so you are no longer in the divot. I’m in the camp of changing the rule.
 
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Canadan said:
I have a question for those who think shady golfers will ruin this.

Do you think it's okay that golfers can mark their balls on the green? If we're talking about cheaters here, they have the ability to move their ball closer to the hole in a variety of ways without being put under a microscope, which will improve their lie and chance to make a putt.

Why is the line drawn so aggressively on something like this when cheaters can find ways to be turds everywhere else. Why do honest golfers have to suffer an unintended fate because of it?
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Cheaters gonna cheat. It is what it is.
 
Sox_Fan said:
Fairway - relief if all in group agree that it is in fact a divot.

Rough - play it as it lies even if clearly in a divot. Miss the fairway, pay the price.

Yes, a lot of people would try to take advantage. That's why it should be agreed upon by other members in the group before taking relief.
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I think this makes a lot of sense. To those thinking people taking advantage will become overwhelming, dont you think that the average weekender is already rolling their ball or fluffing lies or dropping a second at no stroke? I know that in the fun league amongst coworkers you cannot even begin to pull out rule book on some people because it would just be a nightmare explaining all their infractions.

Divot in the fairway - I am fine if you move it out - we are not playing for much. THP event nope, tournament nope, club championship (as if I know what these even are) nope! Follow the rules to a fine line.

The water in a bunker or "pooled" rain water absolutely get that thing out of there no questions asked. Well ask and clarify just to be nice! (y)
 
Play as it lies unless tournament rules dictate otherwise.
 
Nate said:
Had a lesson today and the last 5 minutes started putting balls in divots w/ & w/o sand. I'm ready to go now. ;)
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You are teaching? Sign me up
 
Nate said:
Had a lesson today and the last 5 minutes started putting balls in divots w/ & w/o sand. I'm ready to go now. ;)
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So these are the things scratch golfers work on! Any high cappers in the class...didnt think so..High cappers roll them out I suppose
 
Hit a couple balls out of divots today at the range to practice the (almost) yearly occurrence of me landing in a divot (anywhere) on the course.
 
We make a lot of rules decisions by committee, with the "committee" being the group we're playing in. Asking the pro shop would do no good - there's nobody in our pro shop who knows any more about the rules than we do, some of the employees in there don't even golf. Not saying we go out there and play free for all with unlimited mulligans, eight foot gimmes and preferred lies everywhere, but if there's some question about a rule, we work it out amongst ourselves.
 
Snowman said:
We make a lot of rules decisions by committee, with the "committee" being the group we're playing in. Asking the pro shop would do no good - there's nobody in our pro shop who knows any more about the rules than we do, some of the employees in there don't even golf. Not saying we go out there and play free for all with unlimited mulligans, eight foot gimmes and preferred lies everywhere, but if there's some question about a rule, we work it out amongst ourselves.
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Exactly. I don’t think the idea that it would be a hard rule to administer is a good argument against it. It seems exactly like the old “is this a pitch mark or a spike mark?” question. I never found that to be particularly burdensome or problematic.

I obviously have other reasons for being against it, but I don’t think administering the rule is a reason to oppose it.
 
Pantherhawk said:
Exactly. I don’t think the idea that it would be a hard rule to administer is a good argument against it. It seems exactly like the old “is this a pitch mark or a spike mark?” question. I never found that to be particularly burdensome or problematic.

I obviously have other reasons for being against it, but I don’t think administering the rule is a reason to oppose it.
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I mean, I can see where it becomes problematic in a tournament, where you'd want to ensure that the application of the rule is the same in every group to protect the field. But what competitive golfer doesn't know what a freaking divot is? If the fellow competitors in your group can't agree on whether or not it's a divot as defined by the (hypothetical) rule, call in a rules official. But in everyday play, which is 99% of golfers, it's much ado about nothing - there's no field to protect and if you're taking liberties and cheating, you're only hurting yourself by artificially lowering your handicap.
 
JB said:
We have had threads like this before, but wanted to ask here.

Many on THP believe that it should be ruled ground under repair. As it benefits those from the early round a bit more than later. If that is the case, when during the healing process, would you think it would no longer be under repair?

And do you think shady golfers would begin taking relief at every bad lie they encountered?
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Quoting the OP for those missing the actual question :ROFLMAO:
 
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Nate said:
It’s not hard. Swing hard, swing fast & try & keep at least 1 eye open at contact.
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Thanks for the cliff notes. I guess now I can't use the excuse didn't know how to play it out of that lie.
 
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