It isn't the rule book, it is the interpretations to the rules that are the bulk of it.
Playing Out of a Divot?
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TRUTH!!!
I best many golfers unknowingly break the rules on a regular basis, and even when reading the rulebook, still break rules hahaha
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Does anyone have a handle on changes in the size and scope of the Rules of Golf from, say.... 1986 until today ? If I'm not mistaken, we're playing the same game since Jack won his last Major, correct? How many new rules were put in place since then and the big question.... why?
I generally go by the thinking that, just because you CAN make more rules doesn't mean you SHOULD. Not without really careful consideration and maybe not even then.
I generally go by the thinking that, just because you CAN make more rules doesn't mean you SHOULD. Not without really careful consideration and maybe not even then.
I mention the scramble crowd mostly because they tend to be the biggest pain in the *** from my experience when it comes to arguing about the rules at any level of play.
I think that last part of your statement shows the disconnect though. A large portion of the people that keep handicaps don't play by all the rules all the time. It's all over this forum and most places I've seen golf played. Not always intentionally, but that's the reality. I would call them more honest maybe? That's why I support the idea of a rule for divots (damaged ground in need of or in process of being prepared) while having no concern for it in some way needing to happen. It's not common, and unnecesarily affects people in a negative way even less. I said, I leave it to you to solve. I'm fine without it being addressed and adding to the rule book or the headaches of officials or competition committees.
I have seen what @DG_1234 I think mentioned where an entire area that's well used is deemed under repair for a tournament and I assume that's done to avoid the greater likelihood of some having to play from a divot and others not, but the whole thing seemed a little weird for the people getting relief and others nearby not for something that wasn't reeeally under repair at the time. What if one of them was in a divot in the less used area? I don't know. The whole thing was dicey.
I do know I would much rather play out of one of the large divots in your picture than from resting in one of the long skinny ones. Pass on those little trenches.
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I don't understand why the divot rule is so tough. If you are in the fairway you shouldn't be punished. I don't care either way. I will play however my group wants to play. But if I am out to have fun I am not playing from a divot. If I am in a fairway I am moving it out of a divot. I practice these just in case but for my fun rounds I am playing a good lie. Off fairway is different. I only move if it is ground under repair, if I am allowed to by rule or if I am going to damage my clubs.
Just note that at this point I am only posting scores where I am playing with my group that does play under the rules of golf which might as well be the IRS tax book.
Just note that at this point I am only posting scores where I am playing with my group that does play under the rules of golf which might as well be the IRS tax book.
DG_1234
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During the 35 year period you cite there have been mostly changes to existing Rules rather than the creation of new Rules. For example, changes in club technology resulted in updated equipment specification Rules. Also deference to public opinion caused the USGA to change Rules such as moving from 5 minutes to 3 minutes for lost ball, disallowing third party participation to identify breaches of Rules (for example, t,v. viewer), permitting repair to green of spike marks without penalty etc....
:confused2:
So we disagree on the .. what then? lol Need for a rule for the people... to help them in divots... who don't follow the rules?? Do we even disagree? I've lost track. I didnt read the whole thing again. Mayvbe even part of the new stuff. What's happening???
And more importantly, what divot hurt you Dan?
And is it a big issue at your club? I'm kind of having daymares looking around now about what another month of no sand fill and the weather warming will do to things here. They need to give the bottles back.
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Thanks for the reply and the info., i do appreciate it! I really gotta pull out a rule book and give it a close look...
DG_1234
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Generally, in recent decades the USGA leadership people have transitioned from an autocratic style to now deferring more to public-majority opinion. I think the same is true of the Masters Tournament committee, and other organizations which formerly held strong to long standing traditions and convictions.
I still don't get it. Just let 'em place it next to the divot and carry on.
I don't see why. If it even reasonably half-way looks like a divot, call it a divot, move the ball to either side of it, and be done with it.
How can any one of these positions to which a ball could be moved appreciably improve the player's lie, other than in having gotten the ball out of the divot?
I haven't played seriously enough for any of this to matter, but I still like to "play it where it lies" if possible. I won't damage or destroy a club to accomplish that. If it's on or the club's otherwise likely to impact rocks, hardpan, tree roots, what-have-you: I move it. I try to move it to a location that doesn't otherwise appreciably improve my lie, but moved it gets.
If I'm playing with people that want to assess me a penalty stroke for that I'm fine with it. I'd rather take that hit than replace a club.
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This is exactly how I feel, if you are in the fairway you deserve to have a good lie.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
I believe in playing the ball where it lies as that is part of the challenge of the golf game, however in my league we are allowed to move the ball on the fairway as needed, but that only means a few inches and not feet. Of course, some take that rule to mean rough, sand, and so on.
JayB
Well-known member
I played yesterday evening and had a beautiful drive land in a divot. Casual round with only post round beers wagered with a buddy, so i was set to move it. Decided against it. Changed my setup to accommodate the bad break lie and hit a good shot for a GIR
The satisfaction of problem solving the lie and the shot and making it work was worth it. Was it a bad break? You bet. But the result was worth it and made the round more satisfying. Which i why i’m out there. I probably would not have remembered the hole or shot otherwise if it were just a simple strike from the fairway. Now if i had my paycheck riding on it - myabe i’d fall more into the ‘roll it’ group
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The satisfaction of problem solving the lie and the shot and making it work was worth it. Was it a bad break? You bet. But the result was worth it and made the round more satisfying. Which i why i’m out there. I probably would not have remembered the hole or shot otherwise if it were just a simple strike from the fairway. Now if i had my paycheck riding on it - myabe i’d fall more into the ‘roll it’ group
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MrDC
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Obviously many players would take advantage of this if the rule were changed, basically it would be the wild west of fairway fluffing, everyone would roll their ball out of even the tiniest indentation, and it's laughable to imply otherwise.
Hamfist
I promise not to murder Canadan.
Divots are simply God's way of marking where He doesn't want my ball. I therefore obey Him and move them.
Taylor Zarzour addressed this very issue on Morning Drive on the radio this am. He is a firm advocate of divot relief, but his guest, I forget who it was, believed the line would easily be blurred between the what is a divot acceptable for free relief and what is not (as exhibited but the pic Duffer posted). I like this idea in theory but in practice, I am not sure how this would workout. Would Lee Westwood have won back in March? Who knows.
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For the most part, the pros don't have to deal with this situation--we do. At the highest level, course are prepped starting weeks before a tournament so that the course is immaculate when the tournament starts. Then the pros are teeing off to landing areas way beyond what we mere mortals can. Then each day they have grounds crews filling the bare divots. This advantages the pros in three additional ways.
1. Virtually zero possibility of encountering a divot when the tournament starts. Even on days 3 and 4 you've only accumulated divots from about 200-300 rounds of play as opposed to the 10,000 rounds over the past six weeks on a public course.
2. Since the vast majority of divots are filled the possibility of the ball stopping on a divot is greatly reduced (vs. rolling into a hole), and when they do hitting out of a repaired divot at ground level is a lot easier than hitting a ball in a divot significantly below ground level.
3. In the remaining rare cases where a pro finds their ball in an un-repaired divot, the divot was created by another pro and is generally more uniform than that made by the average weekend warrior.
1. Virtually zero possibility of encountering a divot when the tournament starts. Even on days 3 and 4 you've only accumulated divots from about 200-300 rounds of play as opposed to the 10,000 rounds over the past six weeks on a public course.
2. Since the vast majority of divots are filled the possibility of the ball stopping on a divot is greatly reduced (vs. rolling into a hole), and when they do hitting out of a repaired divot at ground level is a lot easier than hitting a ball in a divot significantly below ground level.
3. In the remaining rare cases where a pro finds their ball in an un-repaired divot, the divot was created by another pro and is generally more uniform than that made by the average weekend warrior.
tommyhaka
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I think what would help the situation is that golfers would take seriously the art of divot repair. I landed in one last year that nobody could make a decent shot out of, a big unrepaired gouge that almost swallowed my golf ball. If the person who made it fixed it properly, it would not be an issue. Do you repair your divot 100% of the time?
Why won't this thread die? It's bad luck. I caught one last time it popped up, in a match a couple weeks ago, and was real close yesterday. Odds only increase as things dry out and roll. Y'all might as well stand in front of a mirror and say it 3 times. It's coming for ya!
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You're welcome!
My take on that is, so what? If you hit a fairway, the course designer intended for you to have a fairway lie. Make it real simple - instead of agonizing over what is and isn't a divot, write the rule so it says that a golfer gets a fairway lie consistent with the original course design if they're in a fairway. If their ball is in a "tiny indentation" it wouldn't affect their shot anyway, so what's the difference if they take relief from it? Seems real simple to me.
In auto racing, if fluids get spilled on the track or car parts (or entire wrecked cars) are lying around, they don't leave them there and expect the racers to deal with them - the race is paused and the track is cleaned up so they're racing on it as designed. In ice hockey, they remove dropped/broken sticks, gloves, debris that fans throw, etc. from the ice, and the Zamboni resurfaces the ice in between periods. There was a recent baseball game in New York where fans were throwing baseballs on the field - they got removed before the game proceeded. And the umpire brushes off home plate if it gets dirt on it. In basketball, they wipe up sweat from the court when players go down, and if somebody breaks a backboard or rips a net, it gets replaced before play continues. They remove snow from the yard line markers on football fields so they're visible to the players and referees. It's not like the concept of playing the field/course/court as designed is an alien concept in any other sport. Why is it so sacred only in golf?
tommyhaka
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Yep, thank you! Bluenose is a word that comes to mind to answer the highlighted question.
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I think there could be a rule written that makes it much harder to roll out of a simple variant in the grass, but I want to circle back on the one most obvious thing... and that is that cheaters are going to cheat regardless. They'll probably wait until you're not looking and roll it out of there anyways.
There are SO many rules that could be exploited. All of them were implemented with the understanding that golfers would need to get them validated by their group or a rules official, and plenty of cheaters take advantage of them.
There are SO many rules that could be exploited. All of them were implemented with the understanding that golfers would need to get them validated by their group or a rules official, and plenty of cheaters take advantage of them.