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PLEASE HELP ME FIX MY SUPER SHORT BACKSWING

Oh boy,... played today in a pro-am and started out using some of the new tips then crunch time after a few holes reverted right back to super short and quick hockey slap shot backswing hacks. Drives very short/3 wood short and quick, mid irons not good. Again my wedge/pitching play and 2 putting saved me on up and down for 7 pars/ and bogies nd coupler of doubles. Shot 87 but it was a not pretty. Will get back out and have to trust the new swing tips cited above. Oh boy,...
 
Changing a swing takes a loong time. Keep practicing the basics, and it will eventually become you swing, just by habit.
 
I am glad you are seeing progress, @RITZ. In case it hasn't been mentioned, you might consider a swing thought of pausing at the top of your swing. You likely will not actually pause, but it might help with your transition and sequencing, which could result in a better turn and longer backswing.
 
Tenputt said:
I am glad you are seeing progress, @RITZ. In case it hasn't been mentioned, you might consider a swing thought of pausing at the top of your swing. You likely will not actually pause, but it might help with your transition and sequencing, which could result in a better turn and longer backswing.
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I cannot endorse this enough. It helps me greatly.
 
Tenputt said:
I am glad you are seeing progress, @RITZ. In case it hasn't been mentioned, you might consider a swing thought of pausing at the top of your swing. You likely will not actually pause, but it might help with your transition and sequencing, which could result in a better turn and longer backswing.
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I will give this a go. My golf brain will need to be re-programmed!
 
RITZ said:
Oh boy,... played today in a pro-am and started out using some of the new tips then crunch time after a few holes reverted right back to super short and quick hockey slap shot backswing hacks. Drives very short/3 wood short and quick, mid irons not good. Again my wedge/pitching play and 2 putting saved me on up and down for 7 pars/ and bogies nd coupler of doubles. Shot 87 but it was a not pretty. Will get back out and have to trust the new swing tips cited above. Oh boy,...
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I am a nobody. Never turned pro. Lifelong amateur. But do you see my swing? See how short it is? I have shot 6-under 66 in competition multiple times. I am the Senior Amateur Champion of the second largest city in America (and still an abject nobody!!!). I've stood toe-to-toe with some of the best 40+ year-old amateurs in America and competed with them. I've been as low as a legitimate, turn-in-every-score +3.6 playing a tournament-heavy schedule. I'm 52 with an absolutely destroyed lower back so prone to back spasms that I have trouble rolling over in bed many nights. I carry driver 220 to 230 (max). Yet I'm still a +1 when I'm healthy -- and that's only if I count actual, verifiable tournament scores.

Bottom line: The length of your backswing means exactly D*CK. For more proof, see Allen Doyle if you really want to see excellence with a short backswing, and I mean, true, world-class, "phock you, PGA Tour Pro" excellence. Learn to play the game with your own, idiosyncratic, self-made swing.

Can your swing can get better? God d*mn right it can! Don't swing my swing, or Allen Doyle's swing. Swing your own swing, but learn your swing. Own it. Perfect that move. Learn the nuances of it. Learn the limitations(!) of that kind of move. And then Get. To. Phocking. Work.

In short: Compete.

Semi-drunk rant over. :)
 
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Obee said:
I am a nobody. Never turned pro. Lifelong amateur. But do you see my swing? See how short it is? I have shot 6-under 66 in competition multiple times. I am the Senior Amateur Champion of the second largest city in America (and still an abject nobody!!!). I've stood toe-to-toe with some of the best 40+ year-old amateurs in America and competed with them. I've been as low as a legitimate, turn-in-every-score +3.6 playing a tournament-heavy schedule. I'm 52 with an absolutely destroyed lower back so prone to back spasms that I have trouble rolling over in bed many nights. I carry driver 220 to 230 (max). Yet I'm still a +1 when I'm healthy -- and that's only if I count actual, verifiable tournament scores.

Bottom line: The length of your backswing means exactly D*CK. For more proof, see Allen Doyle if you really want to see excellence with a short backswing, and I mean, true, world-class, "phock you, PGA Tour Pro" excellence. Learn to play the game with your own, idiosyncratic, self-made swing.

Can your swing can get better? God d*mn right it can! Don't swing my swing, or Allen Doy's swing. Swing your own swing, but learn your swing. Own it. Perfect that move. Learn the nuances of it. Learn the limitations(!) of that kind of move. And then Get. To. Phocking. Work.

In short: Compete.

Semi-drunk rant over. :)
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R- 100% right on. Some great golfing to show me it can be done. Good advice that I need to master my swing.
I am now working on getting more turn as I started lifting my left heel a couple inches to help turn more plus moved my back foot back and flared it out to help turn.
Work in progress and trust some of the good advice here.
 
Here's what I see and hear from your OP description. You have a very upright swing and focus. There is no more than a 45 degree turn in the direction of your chest. Going from your setup position to the picture you shared you are mostly lifting your hands. Power and swing speed mostly comes from the stored energy by coiling your body.

You need to focus more on rotation. So the shoulder turn and getting your back to the target comments above will be most useful.

Can you turn more than you have? I believe so.

In the picture you've posted, both your feet are flatfooted and your knees bent outward. Compare that to the picture below of Moe Norman's top of backswing position later in life. Note that Moe's front knee is pointing at or slightly behind the ball not out toward right field (baseball reference). His back is facing the target and his hands are way behind him. Your hands are more or less pointing away from the target. This demonstrates the more around the body coil in the backswing as opposed to lifting your hands. Now Moe clearly is moving his front knee from pointing in front of the ball at setup to behind the ball at the top. This helps create more rotation. Moe is able to achieve this position while keeping his lead foot firmly on the ground, but many of us can't. It's okay to lift the heel or allow the front foot to roll so the weight is on the instep as long as you plant your foot on the downswing.

I could have picked golfers that rotate that front knee far more than Moe. I picked Moe as I think it's obvious you don't have to reach parallel or be a young gun to get to the position that will get the job done.

Moe-2-394x576.jpg
 
Leftshot- I worked on making a bigger turn out practicing today and did hit my mid iron and 3 wood about 10 yards longer. Good coaching here to focus more on rotation and not as much on length of the backswing. I did have some 10 yard pulls to the left doing this but no doubt that is part of the adjustment and timing to making a bigger turn. Good info here/thank you.
 
It's psychological, something about the ball. We want to hit it. Take a practice swing without a ball against the turf; then pul a ball down. Everything changes - it's in the head. Change your mindset - let the ball get in the way. I look in the sky and think about my ball flight, stay loose, and don't stand over it. Swing.

Tension.

Deep breath addressing the ball, relax arms and shoulders, try a waggle - I think that will help. One loses athleticism standing over the ball and tension develops. Shorten time at address over ball, too.

If that doesn't work, Hypnotherapy ...
 
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RITZ said:
View attachment 8947829Here is my backswing
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This picture was "ME" a few weeks ago.

You look a little flat footed here in this picture with your weight leaned out towards the ball and a bit too upright with your plane.

Your arms are doing all the swinging and they can only go so far without a little help from the hips and shoulders. Your spine angle must be doing all sorts of funny things. (too steep - casting - over the top -smothered shots)

A drill that I use might help.
Try letting the right hip initiate the back swing "nice and easy" with a slight weight shift onto the ball of your right foot. You'll be surprised how nicely the shoulders turn. The arms will generally fall into a better swing plane at the same time. Let your weight sort of naturally transfer to your front knee through impact.
 
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Desmond said:
It's psychological, something about the ball. We want to hit it. Take a practice swing without a ball against the turf; then pul a ball down. Everything changes - it's in the head. Change your mindset - let the ball get in the way. I look in the sky and think about my ball flight, stay loose, and don't stand over it. Swing.

Tension.

Deep breath addressing the ball, relax arms and shoulders, try a waggle - I think that will help. One loses athleticism standing over the ball and tension develops. Shorten time at address over ball, too.

If that doesn't work, Hypnotherapy ...
Click to expand...
Yes exactly for me it's like a pilot getting ready to take off with a 17 point check list of things to do in my golf swing. Without a ball I swing freely and it looks like a nice flowing swing. Put the ball there,..super short and quick. The rotation/turn hips/shoulders coaching noted above is helping me and I will also work on the tip here to free my golf brain.
 
Knot Right said:
This picture was "ME" a few weeks ago.

You look a little flat footed here in this picture with your weight leaned out towards the ball and a bit too upright with your plane.

Your arms are doing all the swinging and they can only go so far without a little help from the hips and shoulders. Your spine angle must be doing all sorts of funny things. (too steep - casting - over the top -smothered shots)

A drill that I use might help.
Try letting the right hip initiate the back swing "nice and easy" with a slight weight shift onto the ball of your right foot. You'll be surprised how nicely the shoulders turn. The arms will generally fall into a better swing plane at the same time. Let your weight sort of naturally transfer to your front knee through impact.
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Good info here to make that turn happen more naturally with the hip turn thought vs shoulders. Thank you!
 
Ritz, I didn’t see a video? I’m new so sorry if I missed it. Can you post a video down the line and face on? Or send me a couple...happy to lend a hand. That’s what Tim and I here for.

I know a picture speaks a thousand words, but we gotta see what it looks like, then we can help. I have some Ideas of how to really help you, but I don’t want to give you more thoughts to think about without video...that’s just guessing, 😂 and won’t be helpful.

Matt
 
Ok, I greatly appreciate you both reaching out to me to offer your expertise and will work on submitting a video.
 
very curious to hear our new experts’ thoughts. i took some videos of my swing yesterday and it’s pretty discouraging to see how little i’ve progressed. might be able to snag a nugget of wisdom here.
 
MrMom said:
I'm no expert, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If you can produce a longer swing with ease during practice swings could the problem be tempo? Maybe getting too quick in transition? For what it's worth, you don't look too far off from Tony Finau's position at the top of his swing. He hits the ball alright. :)
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My mind went to tempo as well.

Practice like 1/4 or 1/2 swings. When you can make good contact, take the swing back a little further. Get to that front foot. So much of the swing is about weight transfer and using the legs for power.

"Low and slow."
Athletic posture. Butt out. Chest/head up. Webb Simpson's posture today at the Rocket Mortgage. (y)
 
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RITZ said:
Update - I played 9 today/course was wide open so if I did not like a shot dropped another ball down and worked on a consolidation of all of the above great tips from-
Pattiboy- Super supple wrists
MrMom-could the problem be tempo? Maybe getting too quick in transition? YES right on!
Hamfist- The squat drill
Titleist1981-Concentrate on turning your back to the target
Braveheart- Right foot back and flared out
SMGoldstein-Point left shoulder down at the ball more in the backswing Good for getting me in a good position on the way back.
Fufflemaster-"Baseball swing" was a good observation/"work on keeping your elbow pointed more toward the ground and in connection with your right arm on the backswing
( I gained some driving/3 wood yardage/long irons distance with the bent elbow. Felt my swing was more powerful.

All good stuff from The Hackers Paradise golf community.
This is truly a work in progress so everything starts now for me to change my decades old bad and getting even shorter swing. RITZ
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Nice...Tim just helped someone last week with your exact struggle..let us know. We are here to help. Matt
 
Could it be a flexibility issue? Maybe some daily stretching or light yoga that you could do at home. You'll probably start to turn more without even trying or thinking about doing it
 
Obee said:
I am a nobody. Never turned pro. Lifelong amateur. But do you see my swing? See how short it is? I have shot 6-under 66 in competition multiple times. I am the Senior Amateur Champion of the second largest city in America (and still an abject nobody!!!). I've stood toe-to-toe with some of the best 40+ year-old amateurs in America and competed with them. I've been as low as a legitimate, turn-in-every-score +3.6 playing a tournament-heavy schedule. I'm 52 with an absolutely destroyed lower back so prone to back spasms that I have trouble rolling over in bed many nights. I carry driver 220 to 230 (max). Yet I'm still a +1 when I'm healthy -- and that's only if I count actual, verifiable tournament scores.

Bottom line: The length of your backswing means exactly D*CK. For more proof, see Allen Doyle if you really want to see excellence with a short backswing, and I mean, true, world-class, "phock you, PGA Tour Pro" excellence. Learn to play the game with your own, idiosyncratic, self-made swing.

Can your swing can get better? God d*mn right it can! Don't swing my swing, or Allen Doyle's swing. Swing your own swing, but learn your swing. Own it. Perfect that move. Learn the nuances of it. Learn the limitations(!) of that kind of move. And then Get. To. Phocking. Work.

In short: Compete.

Semi-drunk rant over. :)
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And a damn fine rant it was!! I owe you a drink.
 
greg19 said:
Could it be a flexibility issue? Maybe some daily stretching or light yoga that you could do at home. You'll probably start to turn more without even trying or thinking about doing it
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Not usually...most of the time it’s Poor technique and Using the wrong muscles and motion patterns
 
TrueMotionMatt said:
Not usually...most of the time it’s Poor technique and Using the wrong muscles and motion patterns
Click to expand...

Interesting, thank you. Do you have any examples of right and wrong and what was done to correct it? I'd be interested to see.
 
greg19 said:
Interesting, thank you. Do you have any examples of right and wrong and what was done to correct it? I'd be interested to see.
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I do, just need to figure out how to post videos. Tim just had exact situation last week, so super fresh. (See 👇)
 
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Marc said he wasn’t flexible enough to get a full turn. I told him he could...anyone can unless they have prior injuries of disabilities. His issue was not knowing the proper micro motions and muscles to use to get his desired turn. Marc also used his arms so while it looks like he has a “long” backswing, it was NOT long or rotated properly.

Now everyone has different feels which is why Tim asks what the feel was (he’s old so he forgets 😂😂😂) Some people feel feet, some arms, that’s why this can be tricky. Check this transformation out, first lesson, @TrueMotionTim only worked Takeaway with Marc, and 2nd one, this lesson, he added some added feels and got Marc to P3. Now that Marc has these feels he just needs high quality reps at home and not banging balls on the range. Just hard work in front of a mirror or video at Home in his LivingRoom or garage.

 
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