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private school vs public school (catholic)

I am torn myself. I used to be a staunch defender of public schools, but my recent experience with my youngest son has me rethinking. It's not so much what some people would have a problem with ("indoctrination" etc.), but more an inflexibility of policy (zero tolerance can mean zero common sense), curriculum and accommodation of learning style. I think that is a natural consequence of rising population/enrollment, shrinking resources and frankly a palpable public disdain for the teaching profession that is somewhat unwarranted. Some of my son's teachers are fantastic, others I can't stand to talk to. There needs to be real dialogue in this country about the direction of education and teacher compensation (if you pay for ****, why wouldn't you get **** candidates?). It needs to be between people who aren't just interested in ascribing ridiculous motives to the "other side." You can't honestly believe millions of people on either side of the educational or political conversation is "evil" or wants to "make the population dumber" etc. We have to stop labeling each other that way.

Two terms that make me cringe are "indoctrination" and "critical thinking." I grew up in a very small town and school district. I left that town after high school with a lot of ideas about people and groups, but after 4 years of college I had different ideas. Many people from my small town called that indoctrination, but I never had one professor tell me how to think about any person. I just met and got to know people who weren't white, weren't straight (or pretending to be) and were different than me. That was a good thing. As critical thinking goes, I think one of the top traits of a real critical thinker is the ability to consider that you very well might be wrong. Lots of people who consider themselves critical thinkers are missing that.

Sorry so long, screw Covid-19 and play well everyone! (y)
 
It literally means teach. Not sure what you had but by us we have indoctrination. And being different doesn’t qualify pushing it on me. Muslims are different from me and may wear a hijab but that doesn’t mean I am ok with wearing one. They may be ok with beheading a woman for showing too much hair out of the hijab but that doesn’t mean I am ok with it. A pedo may be ok with diddling little children but that doesn’t mean I am ok with it. A transgender may be ok with acting different than their chromosomes designed them to but that doesn’t mean I have to have it forced down my throat. Sorry not buying your comments. There’s a difference between my yearning for knowledge taking me in a direction and someone pushing their views on me. Huge difference.
And critical thinking encompasses so much more than considering that I may be wrong. That is so short minded to package it up like that.

See for me education should be my yearning for topics and developing in a way that is in tune with my internal and external compass. Not what is being defined by some curriculum that doesn’t apply to me. That is why we have choice and freedoms in life. Hence real critical thinking as it evolves not just a quick sound bite.

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Does your area have charter schools? They're considered public schools but with private funding so they can offer smaller class sizes and specialized education. We chose that option as private schools are way too expensive over here.
 
If we had a local private school or lived in Tulsa I’d put my kids in one in a split second.

And I’m a public school teacher.
 
GimmeAnother1 said:
It literally means teach. Not sure what you had but by us we have indoctrination. And being different doesn’t qualify pushing it on me. Muslims are different from me and may wear a hijab but that doesn’t mean I am ok with wearing one. They may be ok with beheading a woman for showing too much hair out of the hijab but that doesn’t mean I am ok with it. A pedo may be ok with diddling little children but that doesn’t mean I am ok with it. A transgender may be ok with acting different than their chromosomes designed them to but that doesn’t mean I have to have it forced down my throat. Sorry not buying your comments. There’s a difference between my yearning for knowledge taking me in a direction and someone pushing their views on me. Huge difference.
And critical thinking encompasses so much more than considering that I may be wrong. That is so short minded to package it up like that.

See for me education should be my yearning for topics and developing in a way that is in tune with my internal and external compass. Not what is being defined by some curriculum that doesn’t apply to me. That is why we have choice and freedoms in life. Hence real critical thinking as it evolves not just a quick sound bite.

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Sir, you somewhat cherry picked a couple things from my post to get offended by. For one thing, the 1st definition of indoctrinate you posted yourself above is the one I feel most are referencing when they use the word. 2nd, I said that one of the top traits of a critical thinker is to consider the possibility that he or she might be wrong. I said nothing about that being the only trait, as you imply I did. 3rd, in no way did anything in my post condone beheading of women or pedophilia, or that you should wear a hijab or any other clothing you don't want to. I have no idea how you got any of that out of what I typed. I merely was saying that meeting people with different life experiences can give you another perspective to consider. I said nothing about abandoning any sense of your morality. For you to call me "short-minded" when I only espoused trying to consider other perspectives (not necessarily to adopt them) while you state that you only want education that reinforces your current views, well, I'm not sure what to say but God bless you sir. You will almost certainly get the education you desire.
 
Interesting....30 posts in & not one picking a private school for faith teaching & environment above all.
 
This is the way my wife and I did it.

First, ask yourself what are your priorities when it comes to schooling: academics, character, college prep, prep for becoming a responsible and capable adult? Next, how will you assess each school's ability to deliver on your chosen priorities? Interview, assess, decide.

In our case, we found the public schools in our area unwilling to share any information on state or federal standardized testing. They also had little to nothing to share in support of any of our other priorities. I'm NOT saying all or even most public schools are that way. I'm only saying that was what happened at that time with that one. Not surprisingly, we continued our search. We eventually found a private school that clearly shared our priorities and performed well in each. My daughters and their husbands used this same methodology. One set of children are being homeschooled. The other set is in a public school.

Overall, on academics, character development and becoming a capable adult homeschooled children do best, followed by private schools, then public schools. But that is overall. There are plenty of exceptions when you are looking locally.

One word of caution. We easily delude ourselves. I live in an area where the public schools perform terribly on academics and have done so for many years. Hundreds of times I've heard parents acknowledge the poor overall performance and then assert that THEIR child's public school is the exception, and it's not, and easy to determine it's not. No parent wants to believe they are doing anything but the best for their children. I get that. But if we really want what's best for our children, are serious about the priorities we have for schooling and have the means, we must be diligent and dig deep to find what we desire.
 
Nate said:
Interesting....30 posts in & not one picking a private school for faith teaching & environment above all.
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I think a couple did and I alluded to it without saying it. I’ll be more explicit this time.

We wanted the kids to be exposed to faith over and above what we did at home (non Catholics, very active in our church until recently).

My son has ADD. We feared he’d be a kid that would slip through the cracks in the large public school classes but were confident he would get personal attention in the small Catholic school classes (our kids have had as small as 12 and never more than 21 in their classes).

We also saw that we could call the principle, teacher or Fr and get an immediate / timely call back. Every time. We have been regular partners with the private school teachers. We are more like customers / consumers at the public school...extremely different. The private school teachers know our kids; our kids are more like a number to the public school teachers. That’s not a knock on those teachers, they have huge numbers and can’t possibly connect with every one of their pupils.

As I said, I’d do the private school thing again in a heartbeat. Honestly I think about things like hoping I have enough money in retirement that I can pay for my grandkids to go private too.

Edit: Here is a great example. My son’s public HS just announced they are closing school until March 30 due to Coronavirus. My daughter’s private middle school (junior HS) is ready to go with online curriculum starting Monday.
 
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tequila4kapp said:
I think a couple did and I alluded to it without saying it. I’ll be more explicit this time. We wanted the kids to be exposed to faith over and above what we did at home (non Catholics, very active in our church until recently). My son has ADD. We feared he’d be a kid that would slip through the cracks in the large public school classes but would get personal attention in the small Catholic school classes (our kids have had as small as 12 and never more than 21 in their classes). We also saw that we could call the principle, teacher or Fr and get an immediate / timely call back. Every time. We have been regular partners with the private school teachers. We are more like customers / consumers at the public school...extremely different. The private school teachers know our kids; our kids are more like a number to the public school teachers. That’s not a knock on those teachers, they have huge numbers and can’t possibly connect with every one of their pupils. As I said, I’d do the private school thing again in a heartbeat. Honestly I think about things like hoping I have enough money in retirement that I can pay for my grandkids to go private too.
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I was referring to it being the number 1 reason. Everyone has their reasons in forgoing public over paying $10-50K a year for private school. For many, including us, faith teaching was the reason.
 
Nate said:
I was referring to it being the number 1 reason. Everyone has their reasons in forgoing public over paying $10-50K a year for private school. For many, including us, faith teaching was the reason.
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Fair point. It wasn’t THE top reason for us - we were already so involved with church we didn’t have a void to fill, if that makes sense. But it was a priority to us along with the other stuff I mentioned.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Fair point. It wasn’t THE top reason for us - we were already so involved with church we didn’t have a void to fill, if that makes sense. But it was a priority to us along with the other stuff I mentioned.
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I know this and we’ve had a conversation about this already (Tahoe Open). There is no wrong answer as to the why. Just stuck out to me in reading the comments that the majority were not due to faith.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I think a couple did and I alluded to it without saying it. I’ll be more explicit this time. We wanted the kids to be exposed to faith over and above what we did at home (non Catholics, very active in our church until recently). My son has ADD. We feared he’d be a kid that would slip through the cracks in the large public school classes but would get personal attention in the small Catholic school classes (our kids have had as small as 12 and never more than 21 in their classes). We also saw that we could call the principle, teacher or Fr and get an immediate / timely call back. Every time. We have been regular partners with the private school teachers. We are more like customers / consumers at the public school...extremely different. The private school teachers know our kids; our kids are more like a number to the public school teachers. That’s not a knock on those teachers, they have huge numbers and can’t possibly connect with every one of their pupils. As I said, I’d do the private school thing again in a heartbeat. Honestly I think about things like hoping I have enough money in retirement that I can pay for my grandkids to go private too.
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Yes, yes, yes...I believe it is about attention and flexibility. Not necessarily faith, although I was raised and confirmed Catholic, married a beautiful Lutheran girl and we are still members of a local Lutheran church. That said, the principal of our public school is a fantastic advocate for my son, but his hands are somewhat tied by the rigidity of policy, curriculum etc as I mentioned before. That is where the rub is for me. Humanity is not confined to people of faith, and I say that as a person of faith for my nearly 51 years. I think the discussion between public/private schools and funding should be based on methods and flexibility, not dogma.
 
Nate said:
Interesting....30 posts in & not one picking a private school for faith teaching & environment above all.
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In the arena of what I was alluding to. But for each to chose this. It’s a much different experience if I yearn to learn (environment) vs being pushed on me and something akin to faith was my comment regarding (internal and external compass).
Also as parents or family our job is to help our young ones develop their talents as well as their internal and external compass. Not suffer them to something that is against their belief system or one we would guide as a parent through knowledge and wisdom.
 
GimmeAnother1 said:
In the arena of what I was alluding to. But for each to chose this. It’s a much different experience if I yearn to learn (environment) vs being pushed on me and something akin to faith was my comment regarding (internal and external compass).
Also as parents or family our job is to help our young ones develop their talents as well as their internal and external compass. Not suffer them to something that is against their belief system or one we would guide as a parent through knowledge and wisdom.
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Yes, but in the small town where I grew up racial slurs were commonplace and so were slurs against homosexuals. Now many of those people (including me) know, love and appreciate people of other races and homosexuals and see them live their lives lovingly, as much or more so than many white and/or heterosexual people. So I ask, when you speak of suffering children "against their belief system" is it theirs or their parents? And would you say that some parents in my hometown who commonly used the N-word (and still do) or called people f*gs were imparting their knowledge and wisdom? I know some from those days who think much differently, including a classmate and her husband who are both close friends and staunch Catholics who married and have 2 sons who are gay. They are both married, and they think the world of them and their adopted granddaughter.
 
GimmeAnother1 said:
In the arena of what I was alluding to. But for each to chose this. It’s a much different experience if I yearn to learn (environment) vs being pushed on me and something akin to faith was my comment regarding (internal and external compass).
Also as parents or family our job is to help our young ones develop their talents as well as their internal and external compass. Not suffer them to something that is against their belief system or one we would guide as a parent through knowledge and wisdom.
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Don’t think my 8 year old has a internal compass that my decision for her well being is going to interfere with her suffering belief system. Think she’s just gonna have to trust me in this.
 
JoeHatesSnow said:
...more an inflexibility of policy (zero tolerance can mean zero common sense), curriculum and accommodation of learning style.
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This. So much this.
 
Nate said:
Interesting....30 posts in & not one picking a private school for faith teaching & environment above all.
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I guess I didn't call it out in my post directly, more assumed that they learn about their faith at a Catholic school. It is our number one reason for sending the kids to Catholic school though.
 
It’s funny how people think it’s the school and the teachers who make these kids who they end up being. The data is very clear that what matters is the socio-economic status of the parents and the kids they go to school with. The first is fixed so it’s the second that you should consider as the education part will take care of itself. Where will your kids be in a better environment, and surrounded by kids who possess the values you think are most beneficial to their success? Maybe that’s private, maybe that’s public, just depends on the student body and the surrounding demo. As someone who’s sent multiple kids thru the process, all I know for sure is there’s no perfect answer no matter which path you choose.
 
PuffChippy said:
It’s funny how people think it’s the school and the teachers who make these kids who they end up being. The data is very clear that what matters is the socio-economic status of the parents and the kids they go to school with. The first is fixed so it’s the second that you should consider as the education part will take care of itself. Where will your kids be in a better environment, and surrounded by kids who possess the values you think are most beneficial to their success? Maybe that’s private, maybe that’s public, just depends on the student body and the surrounding demo. As someone who’s sent multiple kids thru the process, all I know for sure is there’s no perfect answer no matter which path you choose.
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This exactly. I would just add the involvement of the parents in their children's education. I remember sitting with my sons going over all their homeowners with them every night to make sure they understood what was being taught. You could call that helicoptering or just being involved. Either way that will make a major factor as well.
 
Canes said:
Does your area have charter schools? They're considered public schools but with private funding so they can offer smaller class sizes and specialized education. We chose that option as private schools are way too expensive over here.
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they do but very difficult to get into...more like impossible
 
Jman said:
If we had a local private school or lived in Tulsa I’d put my kids in one in a split second.

And I’m a public school teacher.
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funny, or more like terrible, that you say that. one of our friends is also a teacher and she is not putting her kid through the school she teaches at...she is sending him to private
 
Nate said:
Interesting....30 posts in & not one picking a private school for faith teaching & environment above all.
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the biggest thing i like about catholic school is the discipline. i am catholic but have not practiced in awhile. but i do agree with you
 
Both my wife and I are somewhat "old school" in our thoughts in that we both believe that, as parents, it is our duty to provide more opportunities to our daughter then we enjoyed growing up.

Based on the lack of quality education available in the California public school system our daughter attended private school (co-ed) K-8 and a private (girls) catholic high school. Yes, it was a financial drain. However, the study habits that were ingrained in our daughter, both by the schools expectations and even more importantly by her peers, has served her well during her transition from undergrad through post graduate fellowship.

To the OP. I would suggest that you base your decision on the long term benefit of a quality education and chose the school that will provide the best learning environment for your child.
 
I went to public school K-8, but tried a fancy Catholic prep school at my parents insistence.
I dropped out after two years and became an atheist immediately.
At the public high school, I calmed down and my grades improved enough to get me into college.
(Private but not Catholic.)
 
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