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Retail Stores Launch Monitors

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Smithfaced

Smithfaced

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The pondering thread had some thoughts on this tonight and I'm wondering what everyone else has experienced. I went to a big box sporting goods store when the X-hot irons came out. I was consistently carrying the 6 iron 14 yards further than the Mizuno's I had been gaming and landing withing 5 yards of the center line with every shot. I really was striking them well and figured the atmosphere had something to do with my success. There was a Nike set on clearance that caught my eye and I figured I should give them a run. The guy allowed me to demo the 6 iron and I was hitting them about the same distance as my Mizuno's and pretty far off line. What was weird is that each strike felt like I was just smoking the ball with Nike set.

Now to the point. Do these stores really doctor their launch monitors to get people to buy certain things? Do the major OEM's offer spiffs (bonuses) to sales people to entice them to sell their lines? I'm super oblivious to retail golf but I worked in high end optical shops for a good amount of time and the major companies would always offer spiffs for selling their eyewear. What do you guys think, are these stores duping the common consumer?
 
I think first thing is to distinguish between launch monitors and simulators.
Its why THP Events are even better, launch monitor outside on the range & testing equipment on the course.
I dont believe its as rampant as some make it out to be. Part of it is about the mats, and part of it is about the software, but for instance our launch monitor does not even have a setting to up it.
 
Where the launch angles the same? Shafts, lofts? Curious is all. I have no idea if they are stepping on the numbers, but I wanted to know if all things were equal.
 
In my area, there are generally two kinds of LM's in stores. There are the ones where you out the ball in a general area and swing; these are usually dark and I believe use lights to project the ball flight. In my experience, these LM's are not very reliable, as everything basically goes straight and far.

Then there are LM's where you have to line the ball up to get a green light, then hit. These seem a lot more accurate and the only things I have noticed with them are the roll is exaggerated and the smash factor is preset to 1.45. I don't know how that affects anything, but every club I have hit with one of those LM's gives me pretty accurate numbers.




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I don't think they do but it's always good to bring your own clubs and preferred ball to just so you get a true comparison.
 
Its been a long time since I worked in golf retail, but I did get spiffed for sales of specific clubs.

As for retail simulators, when you are hitting a 5 wood 310 you tend to ignore the number on screen and focus on feel.
 
Smithfaced said:
The pondering thread had some thoughts on this tonight and I'm wondering what everyone else has experienced. I went to a big box sporting goods store when the X-hot irons came out. I was consistently carrying the 6 iron 14 yards further than the Mizuno's I had been gaming and landing withing 5 yards of the center line with every shot. I really was striking them well and figured the atmosphere had something to do with my success. There was a Nike set on clearance that caught my eye and I figured I should give them a run. The guy allowed me to demo the 6 iron and I was hitting them about the same distance as my Mizuno's and pretty far off line. What was weird is that each strike felt like I was just smoking the ball with Nike set.

Now to the point. Do these stores really doctor their launch monitors to get people to buy certain things? Do the major OEM's offer spiffs (bonuses) to sales people to entice them to sell their lines? I'm super oblivious to retail golf but I worked in high end optical shops for a good amount of time and the major companies would always offer spiffs for selling their eyewear. What do you guys think, are these stores duping the common consumer?
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I do genuinely believe that some simulators are juiced, whether it's based on changing from sea level to mountains or wind behind or hardpan landing or whatever! In any case, if I ever (and I doubt I will base things on it) decide to try and make a change with only that available, I'll most certainly be taking my current gamers in with me to draw direct comparisons.
 
I think it is done a little bit but not at every store. Also if you do it properly and take your existing clubs in and a few models in the store at once you jsut compare the numbers and feel. The yardage doesnt matter what it is showing but if it is the same monitor you should be able to gauge.

I also dont know how much the monitors are cranked up distance wise. I think many are just set to a windy range or a higher elevation.
 
Only way to do it Dan. Jacked up numbers or not, if you see improvement from one to another, you can read through the sometimes garbage.

I do remember though the vectors at Golfsmith seemed to show a longer ball the lower you hit it. Didn't make sense but I remember seeing some long long iron shots doing that
 
Tadashi70 said:
Where the launch angles the same? Shafts, lofts? Curious is all. I have no idea if they are stepping on the numbers, but I wanted to know if all things were equal.
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Freddie I've got to be honest here and tell you I don't exactly remember. Shaft was for sure different and I believe the X-hot's were 1 degree stronger.

Canadan said:
I do genuinely believe that some simulators are juiced, whether it's based on changing from sea level to mountains or wind behind or hardpan landing or whatever! In any case, if I ever (and I doubt I will base things on it) decide to try and make a change with only that available, I'll most certainly be taking my current gamers in with me to draw direct comparisons.
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You are a very educated consumer. I know the average dude going in to one of these places does not have the knowledge you do. I don't want to come off as pessimistic and attacking these places but if they can fudge the numbers a bit they can easily sell more expensive product to their customers. Before I knew a single thing I bought a R11s 3 wood because I was just absolutely crushing it. I got out on the course and result were drastically different.
 
fupresti said:
Its been a long time since I worked in golf retail, but I did get spiffed for sales of specific clubs.

As for retail simulators, when you are hitting a 5 wood 310 you tend to ignore the number on screen and focus on feel.
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Agreed. That seems a little soft.

I've had big box retailers tell me that the sim was about 10% short. Not just on one occasion. I've always been suspicious of that.
 
When I go to Dick's, they always have my swing speed in the 90-95 mph range. When I go to Golfsmith, they have me in the 80-85 mph range. It may be the difference in equipment (most likely), because I really doubt my swing changes that much. As much as I'd like to believe the Dick's numbers, I bet Golfsmith is more in line with what my swing speed actually is.
 
Philly Golf Guy said:
Then there are LM's where you have to line the ball up to get a green light, then hit. These seem a lot more accurate and the only things I have noticed with them are the roll is exaggerated and the smash factor is preset to 1.45. I don't know how that affects anything, but every club I have hit with one of those LM's gives me pretty accurate numbers.
Click to expand...

That is the type of LM they have in the GS near house. I was in there yesterday hitting balls & I asked the manager about that. He did something to the machine & my next 6 iron shot went 300+ yards. We both laughed and he said they do have the ability to boost yardage but that they don't do it.

What the OP is describing would mean the store employee is only boosting certain clubs.
 
I know I'd never buy any club solely based off numbers from a box store. They're in business to sell clubs first and foremost.
 
1) it's normally not the launch monitor that is juiced, it's the software that is running it on the front end/display simulator

2) this is why you should always bring your current gamers: so you can calibrate the distances you were seeing
 
HoosierGolfer said:
I know I'd never buy any club solely based off numbers from a box store. They're in business to sell clubs first and foremost.
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More so, their goal is to create return business. Being shady and lie to customers is not the way to build a customer base. I always take them with a grain of salt. But there is one locally that is pretty gosh darn accurate.
 
I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to this stuff, but I must admit that the simulators at a few local GolfTown's are remarkably accurate in my experience. I have never gone in there and hit a club that I game further than I do in 'real life'. The odd time an anomaly will appear like a shot with -600 backspin that rolls into next week, but a slightly educated consumer can just cut through that garbage quite easily.
I don't take the numbers they spit out as gospel, but they are an accurate representation of what you should expect with each club...unless I'm being duped somehow haha.

I was at smaller mom'n'pop store last summer that will remain nameless, but I was hitting driver over 300 (BS) and despite my best efforts I could not hook or slice the ball. It looked like a professional launch monitor setup so I don't know what they did with the software but it's criminal. I told him how I felt and he insisted it was legit. Ok, dude.
 
The LMs are definitely juiced in some stores, but to the OP's point, there is no practical way for the in-store staff to tweak up the LM's so that you're striping it with one 6 iron, then immediately switch to an alternate 6 iron and have it appear that you're hitting it all over the place, when in actuality the shots with both irons were good. If it's juiced up with 6 iron A, it's juiced with 6 iron B too.

Also 100% yes on some stores offering spiffs to sell certain stuff. This said, I've been in lots of stores, lots of times, and I've never had a sales person push me towards something I felt was inappropriate for my skill level, or in contradiction to what I stated I was looking for. It seems like most retail golf folks are pretty good guys...
 
ArmyGolf said:
I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to this stuff, but I must admit that the simulators at a few local GolfTown's are remarkably accurate in my experience. I have never gone in there and hit a club that I game further than I do in 'real life'. The odd time an anomaly will appear like a shot with -600 backspin that rolls into next week, but a slightly educated consumer can just cut through that garbage quite easily.
I don't take the numbers they spit out as gospel, but they are an accurate representation of what you should expect with each club...unless I'm being duped somehow haha.

I was at smaller mom'n'pop store last summer that will remain nameless, but I was hitting driver over 300 (BS) and despite my best efforts I could not hook or slice the ball. It looked like a professional launch monitor setup so I don't know what they did with the software but it's criminal. I told him how I felt and he insisted it was legit. Ok, dude.
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re: the 300 yards straight every time thing...

I have no doubt that this happens in some places. But, I think the OP's fundamental question was, could they set it up so that you did that with Driver A, but then without any intervention, have Driver B return back to reality or worse. In this area, I'm pretty confident the answer is no.
 
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