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Sequel better then original

None. There's no such thing. For the second one to be better, the first one had to be mediocre and then who cares about a sequel?
 
Space Bandito said:
I've gotta get on my high horse again in regards to this. Without any explanation as to WHY TDK is better than Batman Begins (other than internet popularity) I refuse to accept anyone truly believes this.

If you really feel it is a better movie, will you please explain, in detail why you think so.
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We have already had this discussion....both of us laid it out in the other thread. No need to rehash. You like 1 and I like 2....its cool
 
Space Bandito said:
I've gotta get on my high horse again in regards to this. Without any explanation as to WHY TDK is better than Batman Begins (other than internet popularity) I refuse to accept anyone truly believes this.

If you really feel it is a better movie, will you please explain, in detail why you think so.
Click to expand...

the joker is a more terrifying and unpredictable and interesting villain. add in the two-face arc that was perfectly executed over the running times despite not even being the main focus. it was very compelling that the entire movie batman is a step behind and never in control. there is so much more tension and discomfort and uncertainty in tdk. bb is great, tdk is superior.
 
McLovin said:
the joker is a more terrifying and unpredictable and interesting villain. add in the two-face arc that was perfectly executed over the running times despite not even being the main focus. it was very compelling that the entire movie batman is a step behind and never in control. there is so much more tension and discomfort and uncertainty in tdk. bb is great, tdk is superior.
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This ☝️
 
Dark Knight for sure.
 
McLovin said:
the joker is a more terrifying and unpredictable and interesting villain. add in the two-face arc that was perfectly executed over the running times despite not even being the main focus. it was very compelling that the entire movie batman is a step behind and never in control. there is so much more tension and discomfort and uncertainty in tdk. bb is great, tdk is superior.
Click to expand...
The Joker is contrived and predictable throughout the entire film. Did Ledger play a good psychopath? Sure, but a single performance isn't what should define a movie.

The Two Face argument falls flat. It was a lackluster developments of a character with ZERO pay off. He's a villain for all of 5 minutes. The whole thing felt as if it was an afterthought because the studio felt it would be better to bring in two comic book characters. So the hack of a writer, Jonah Nolan decided to add him in at the last minute. It would have worked 1000x better had the entire film shown the development and transformation of the Dent character WITHOUT ever seeing him become Two Face. The inevitability leaves so much to the imagination - especially considering that the next film picks up 8 years later (and had already been planned that way)

Jonah is a hack writer. There is no holy sh*t moment in the entire 2 hour+ run time. Everything is just spelled out like a bad episode of TV. The way that moment is played out in Begins was stellar. I remember the first time I read it (locked in a room, where they held my ID,) I was left with my jaw hanging on the floor. David Goyer knows how to tell a story.

What most people miss is the underlying theme in all of the good Batman films - That Gotham is a city controlled by the mob. The Joker tries to take over control of organized crime -Batman is already busy fighting them, so who cares if it's one more guy? That's not all that enticing to a viewer.

In Batman Begins the mob was already under the control of Ra's al Ghul, though they (and we) didn't really know it. Tom Wilkinson played the roll of Falcone impeccably in a way that you felt the he felt he was in control of the situation. The global influence of Ra's presents the ultimate conflict for Batman- The idea/man who created him is his true enemy - The mob, and a villain wrapped in one invisible enemy.

There is this Hitchcockian sense of mystery throughout Batman Begins vs TDK, where it is painfully explained to us in the first act that the Joker is crazy and likes to mess things up (oooohhh!) The Joker is just another guy, as crazy as he may be. The storyline for the Joker should have been so much more involved, but then again, that would have required a talented writer.

Chris Nolan really screwed the pooch when he decided to not continue on with Goyer, Franco, and Roven. Instead he had the movies (2 & 3) made by his brother and wife. Not exactly an ideal scenario for a true creative collaboration.

The fact is, you can remove any singular element in Batman Begins and still have a good movie (i.e. take out the mob, and you have Batman vs Ra's and himself. Take out Ra's and you still have Batman vs the Mob and himself.) If you remove a singular element from TDK you barely have two acts (take out the Joker and you have Batman vs a bunch of wannabes in fake bat suits, no internal conflict, and an even more lackluster ending than you have with the complete film.)
 
Space Bandito said:
The Joker is contrived and predictable throughout the entire film. Did Ledger play a good psychopath? Sure, but a single performance isn't what should define a movie.

The Two Face argument falls flat. It was a lackluster developments of a character with ZERO pay off. He's a villain for all of 5 minutes. The whole thing felt as if it was an afterthought because the studio felt it would be better to bring in two comic book characters. So the hack of a writer, Jonah Nolan decided to add him in at the last minute. It would have worked 1000x better had the entire film shown the development and transformation of the Dent character WITHOUT ever seeing him become Two Face. The inevitability leaves so much to the imagination - especially considering that the next film picks up 8 years later (and had already been planned that way)

Jonah is a hack writer. There is no holy sh*t moment in the entire 2 hour+ run time. Everything is just spelled out like a bad episode of TV. The way that moment is played out in Begins was stellar. I remember the first time I read it (locked in a room, where they held my ID,) I was left with my jaw hanging on the floor. David Goyer knows how to tell a story.

What most people miss is the underlying theme in all of the good Batman films - That Gotham is a city controlled by the mob. The Joker tries to take over control of organized crime -Batman is already busy fighting them, so who cares if it's one more guy? That's not all that enticing to a viewer.

In Batman Begins the mob was already under the control of Ra's al Ghul, though they (and we) didn't really know it. Tom Wilkinson played the roll of Falcone impeccably in a way that you felt the he felt he was in control of the situation. The global influence of Ra's presents the ultimate conflict for Batman- The idea/man who created him is his true enemy - The mob, and a villain wrapped in one invisible enemy.

There is this Hitchcockian sense of mystery throughout Batman Begins vs TDK, where it is painfully explained to us in the first act that the Joker is crazy and likes to mess things up (oooohhh!) The Joker is just another guy, as crazy as he may be. The storyline for the Joker should have been so much more involved, but then again, that would have required a talented writer.

Chris Nolan really screwed the pooch when he decided to not continue on with Goyer, Franco, and Roven. Instead he had the movies (2 & 3) made by his brother and wife. Not exactly an ideal scenario for a true creative collaboration.

The fact is, you can remove any singular element in Batman Begins and still have a good movie (i.e. take out the mob, and you have Batman vs Ra's and himself. Take out Ra's and you still have Batman vs the Mob and himself.) If you remove a singular element from TDK you barely have two acts (take out the Joker and you have Batman vs a bunch of wannabes in fake bat suits, no internal conflict, and an even more lackluster ending than you have with the complete film.)
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it’s ok to be wrong. i wouldn’t know what that’s like, but i’ve heard it’s ok.

bb rotten tomatoes 84% critics, 94% audience, $372 million box iffice

tdk rotten tomatoes 94% critics, 94% audience, $1 billion box office
 
McLovin said:
it’s ok to be wrong. i wouldn’t know what that’s like, but i’ve heard it’s ok.

bb rotten tomatoes 84% critics, 94% audience, $372 million box iffice

tdk rotten tomatoes 94% critics, 94% audience, $1 billion box office
Click to expand...
Ohhh, you wanna talk numbers to a guy who has spent his life in the very numbers we're talking about, eh?:p

The two films did very similar numbers when you break it down to where it counts.

BB opened on 3,858 screens in US and Canada
TDK opened on 9,251 screens in US and Canada

Opening weekend
BB did avg. $4600 per screen
TDK: avg. $12000 per screen
considering it opened on nearly 3x the number of screen that's pretty level

TDK had a much higher first day gross thanks to the hype surrounding it because of the success of Batman Begins.

BB did $378.1 Million total box office in 200 days
TDK did $1bn in 532 days. - again pretty level

Worth noting that TDK had an approx. 3x larger international roll out than BB, again due to the success of Batman Begins

You can take critical acclaim in the same vein. In 2005 critics weren't ready to see the world of superhero movies turned on its head. Batman Begins changed the landscape and set the stage for all of the horrible garbage Marvel and DC seem to produce on a daily basis. The fanfare surrounding TDK is simply a result of this.

It's like cars. Why would I want one of these things when I have a perfectly good horse? fast forward 100 years, and how many horses do you see driving down the road???


I'm not saying that TDK isn't good. It's just not as good as BB.

Anyway, I'm just giving you guys a hard time. You're welcome to like second rate movies all you want.:cool:
 
TheHammer0711 said:
movie sequels that were better then the original:

Aliens
Superman 2 (Christopher reeves)
The dark knight (Nolan trilogy)
Empire strikes back
Terminator 2
Star trek, wrath of khan
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Empire strikes Back is not a sequel, its part of a 3 part series. Haven't you watched scream??
 
Space Bandito said:
Ohhh, you wanna talk numbers to a guy who has spent his life in the very numbers we're talking about, eh?:p

The two films did very similar numbers when you break it down to where it counts.

BB opened on 3,858 screens in US and Canada
TDK opened on 9,251 screens in US and Canada

Opening weekend
BB did avg. $4600 per screen
TDK: avg. $12000 per screen
considering it opened on nearly 3x the number of screen that's pretty level

TDK had a much higher first day gross thanks to the hype surrounding it because of the success of Batman Begins.

BB did $378.1 Million total box office in 200 days
TDK did $1bn in 532 days. - again pretty level

Worth noting that TDK had an approx. 3x larger international roll out than BB, again due to the success of Batman Begins

You can take critical acclaim in the same vain. In 2005 critics weren't ready to see the world of superhero movies turned on its head. Batman Begins changed the landscape and set the stage for all of the horrible garbage Marvel and DC seem to produce on a daily basis. The fanfare surrounding TDK is simply a result of this.

It's like cars. Why would I want one of these things when I have a perfectly good horse? fast forward 100 years, and how many horses do you see driving down the road???


I'm not saying that TDK isn't good. It's just not as good as BB.

Anyway, I'm just giving you guys a hard time. You're welcome to like second rate movies all you want.:cool:
Click to expand...

Here is my answer as to which is better.



 
Chef23 said:
Agreed. I like GF1 but I think GF2 is tremendous.
Click to expand...

I'm with you boys. Both are fantastic, which is even more impressive. But I like the flashbacks and De Niro in GF2.
 
McLovin said:
the joker is a more terrifying and unpredictable and interesting villain. add in the two-face arc that was perfectly executed over the running times despite not even being the main focus. it was very compelling that the entire movie batman is a step behind and never in control. there is so much more tension and discomfort and uncertainty in tdk. bb is great, tdk is superior.
Click to expand...

This.

It really simply boils down to how great this version of the joker was.

They’ve both been on Netflix and I’ve been rewatching both. Both are amazing but I like dark knight better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The Godfather Part 2 is an answer here...
 
Space Bandito said:
I've gotta get on my high horse again in regards to this. Without any explanation as to WHY TDK is better than Batman Begins (other than internet popularity) I refuse to accept anyone truly believes this.

If you really feel it is a better movie, will you please explain, in detail why you think so.
Click to expand...
Dark Knight is so much better than Begins. Batman Begins was not that great. Decent movie, outclassed by the sequel in every way.
 
Space Bandito said:
all though not really a sequel, Snatch is a better movie than Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
Click to expand...
Agree with this one.

Toy Story 2?
Another tough one but Christmas Vacation was way better than vacation.
 
Space Bandito said:
The Joker is contrived and predictable throughout the entire film. Did Ledger play a good psychopath? Sure, but a single performance isn't what should define a movie.

The Two Face argument falls flat. It was a lackluster developments of a character with ZERO pay off. He's a villain for all of 5 minutes. The whole thing felt as if it was an afterthought because the studio felt it would be better to bring in two comic book characters. So the hack of a writer, Jonah Nolan decided to add him in at the last minute. It would have worked 1000x better had the entire film shown the development and transformation of the Dent character WITHOUT ever seeing him become Two Face. The inevitability leaves so much to the imagination - especially considering that the next film picks up 8 years later (and had already been planned that way)

Jonah is a hack writer. There is no holy sh*t moment in the entire 2 hour+ run time. Everything is just spelled out like a bad episode of TV. The way that moment is played out in Begins was stellar. I remember the first time I read it (locked in a room, where they held my ID,) I was left with my jaw hanging on the floor. David Goyer knows how to tell a story.

What most people miss is the underlying theme in all of the good Batman films - That Gotham is a city controlled by the mob. The Joker tries to take over control of organized crime -Batman is already busy fighting them, so who cares if it's one more guy? That's not all that enticing to a viewer.

In Batman Begins the mob was already under the control of Ra's al Ghul, though they (and we) didn't really know it. Tom Wilkinson played the roll of Falcone impeccably in a way that you felt the he felt he was in control of the situation. The global influence of Ra's presents the ultimate conflict for Batman- The idea/man who created him is his true enemy - The mob, and a villain wrapped in one invisible enemy.

There is this Hitchcockian sense of mystery throughout Batman Begins vs TDK, where it is painfully explained to us in the first act that the Joker is crazy and likes to mess things up (oooohhh!) The Joker is just another guy, as crazy as he may be. The storyline for the Joker should have been so much more involved, but then again, that would have required a talented writer.

Chris Nolan really screwed the pooch when he decided to not continue on with Goyer, Franco, and Roven. Instead he had the movies (2 & 3) made by his brother and wife. Not exactly an ideal scenario for a true creative collaboration.

The fact is, you can remove any singular element in Batman Begins and still have a good movie (i.e. take out the mob, and you have Batman vs Ra's and himself. Take out Ra's and you still have Batman vs the Mob and himself.) If you remove a singular element from TDK you barely have two acts (take out the Joker and you have Batman vs a bunch of wannabes in fake bat suits, no internal conflict, and an even more lackluster ending than you have with the complete film.)
Click to expand...
Begins was a caricature movie. Along with bad visuals in the action scenes.
 
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