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Shaft weight & torque questions

Nippon Shafts
TCB2010

TCB2010

How good do the HMB’s look?!
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Let’s say I’m 105 swing speed, questions to follow this-
I’ve always just bought a stock stiff shaft and not known anything about it.
Help me understand the meaning of torque in a shaft.
Help me understand the meaning of weight in a shaft.
I’m going to be reviewing the new B21 driver in a stiff shaft. I don’t know if I’ll be receiving a 55 or 65. How would these correlate with the swing speed above and their torque of mid and low-mid?
I’m now pondering the B21 3 wood, would you want a lighter shaft in the 3 wood than the driver or the same?
I won’t be in the position to demo anything so blind buying is what I’ll do with a little helping knowledge from the fine folks at THP!
 
I'm kind of waiting for JB to hop in here, because he usually answers these in about half the words, twice as effectively.
 
OldandStiff said:
I'm kind of waiting for JB to hop in here, because he usually answers these in about half the words, twice as effectively.
Click to expand...

Not sure people want my answer here. For most golfers torque is going to be more about feel then any sort of performance. Combine that with no standardization of measurement and it’s a number that while important, doesn’t necessarily impact performance.

We have a torque measuring device in the THP Tech Studio, have tested this quite a bit over the years, and most of all use it to see if the specs given match with what we are seeing.
 
JB said:
Not sure people want my answer here. For most golfers torque is going to be more about feel then any sort of performance. Combine that with no standardization of measurement and it’s a number that while important, doesn’t necessarily impact performance.

We have a torque measuring device in the THP Tech Studio, have tested this quite a bit over the years, and most of all use it to see if the specs given match with what we are seeing.
Click to expand...
What about shaft weight in regards to swing speed?
 
TCB2010 said:
What about shaft weight in regards to swing speed?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you are asking. Weight is very important, but it doesn’t necessarily translate directly to certain speeds. I have seen PGA tour players work with 45-50 gram shafts despite their speeds and some amateurs that swing closer to 80 need a heavier shaft. Weight in flex generally speaking with graphite are independent.
 
TCB2010 said:
What about shaft weight in regards to swing speed?
Click to expand...

I think the general rule would be stronger/faster swingers would usually fit into heavier shafts, but the general rule isn't necessarily a great idea when you're talking about individuals. I'm not fast by any means - just a bit over 100 with the driver and I had my best results with a flexible, lightweight shaft. I'm pretty smooth when I'm swinging naturally and don't put a ton of load on the shaft. Picked up both ball and swing speed in my fitting.
 
I agree with what @JB said about the feel with torque. I like lower torque driver shafts, while others hate them. Not because of how they perform, but because of how they feel. I like low torque shafts more than most people I know. I don't want whatever that increased 'feel' is you all love so much. My dispersion goes to heck usually. I like less feel in just about everything golf, or at least what the majority seems to describe as more feel. Give me a low torque shaft, a dead putter insert, and grips soft and lifeless, and I'm probably happy. lol

With the weight, I lean towards the idea of the lightest you feel comfortable with, because they tend to be faster. Speed matters. It's really individual with how you swing though. Some people need weight. Sometimes people struggling can benefit from going heavier and softer to help their timing. Some people it throws them off. There's no exact correlation to swing speeds. I've played at 105 a lot, and liked some 75g S shafts, some 60 X, and kind of lived in a 60 S most of the time.

I would want a heavier shaft in the 3W. When I play the same weight, it definitely feels light, and I instantly swing slower to maintain control and accuracy. That's me though. So for me it would be 60/65 S or X probably in driver at that speed, and 70/75 S (or similar) in 3W.
 
I think of torque and tempo going together. Faster tempos will usually benefit from less torque. The feeling is that they get a little squirrely if there is too much torque and it gets harder to time the face to square it up at impact.
Anyting getting low 2's in torque is getting serious. I never ventured outside of the mid to high 3 range on torque values when swinging 105.
60's in driver worked well and mid 70's fw. Lots of shafts list uncut weight, so by the time you cut the tip and butt for a FW, a 70g shaft may be closer to 65g in a FW application. Little more active tip in a fw always helped me with a little more shot height for that club. Same shaft rarely worked for me in the driver and fw. Liked a little less spin with the driver.
 
Pick your weight that matches the gapping in your bag. If you have light weight iron shafts, you probably will be well suited in a light weight (sub 60g) driver. If you have DG s300 in your irons, you may want something 70g or above. Not a hard and fast rule but a good place to start.

Don't worry about torque. Pick a shaft based on weight, balance, bend profile, flex, and then just go with whatever the manufacturer put for the torque.
 
There's also something to be said about weight progression of all your clubs throughout the bag.

Torque is usually ends up being used a feel item. Low torque usually associated with the feeling of less twisting. However, in terms of performance, there isn't anything to say a higher torque or low torque would work better outside of hitting whatever feel preference a golfer has.

Weight is more important. General rule of thumb is faster and more aggressive swings do better with heavier shafts while smoother and slower swings can pick up CHS with a lighter shaft. Additionally lighter shafts with a higher balance point can also be built longer easier. Also, if the club is heavier it may help with an over the top move, but there is a risk that this might mean there is too much weight over the course of q round.

With any of these, get fit. Your preferences will guide a bit of the decision making, but going off general rules of thumb is not the wisest bet for your individual swing.
 
I am still learning, but here is my current take FWIW. Weight is personal. I can adapt to lighter or heavier. Heavier helps me slow down the tempo but also takes more work. With lighter shafts I have to focus on staying centered and not pulling across. My swing speeds don't change much with different shaft weights, but I know some find faster swing speeds with lighter weight. I am happiest in the 65-75 range with driver. Torque is how resistant the shaft is to twisting. I like low torque for control at impact. Flex is complicated by profile. I have a quick transition and stiffer flex overall helps me load the club while retaining control through the swing. With softer flexing clubs I can only hit them anywhere near straight with manageable spin by slowing down my swing. The hard part is that all these pieces works together as a system. I like a shaft that feels balanced and neutral. I have the best outcomes from shafts that kind of disappear to me in a swing. They do the job without any notable feel.
 
I think weight is very personal. I, for instance, lean toward heavier shafts. I'm playing a 60g in the driver, but my fairway shafts are 85g. I have DGold S300 in the wedges. The AMT Whites are light in the longer irons, but still relatively heavy.
 
I have always understood weight to have more to do with tempo and transition. I might be way off but that was my understanding. Aggressive swingers with a fast transition tend to do better with heavier shaft weights. At least that’s what I was told by the fitter at Club Champion. I don’t think it is necessarily a firm hard fast rule though.
 
Whatever the claimed overall torque, the different areas of the shaft have different torques. I think the assumption is the tip section, however?
One thing OEM's often can do, regardless of stated torque value, is to make the shaft stiffer under the hands to impart a perceived feel of stability.
Aftermarket shafts even though they are measured in proprietary ways, I think might hold true a little more as to their stated torque?
I see a 5.5 torque value on a stock shaft and I'm probably not even going to bother.
 
TCB2010 said:
Let’s say I’m 105 swing speed, questions to follow this-
I’ve always just bought a stock stiff shaft and not known anything about it.
Help me understand the meaning of torque in a shaft.
Help me understand the meaning of weight in a shaft.
I’m going to be reviewing the new B21 driver in a stiff shaft. I don’t know if I’ll be receiving a 55 or 65. How would these correlate with the swing speed above and their torque of mid and low-mid?
I’m now pondering the B21 3 wood, would you want a lighter shaft in the 3 wood than the driver or the same?
I won’t be in the position to demo anything so blind buying is what I’ll do with a little helping knowledge from the fine folks at THP!
Click to expand...

Torque = twisting or lack of twisting. The lower the torque number the lower the twist. A 2.8 torque shaft will feel much firmer than a 3.5 or 4.0. Torque is just as critical as flex when it comes to a driver or FW wood. I fit into a 3.5 -4.0 depending on the shaft model with my swing speed. A 2.8 feels too rigid and I loose feel.

Shaft weight affects the overall weight of the club.

Swing weight affects the balance of the club. You can make a heavy club feel lighter at the head or a light club feel heavy at the head and it will affect on your release.
 
Weight of shaft - how much it weighs. Torque - basically the amount of resistance to twist.
 
I attended the hand crafted event a few years back, and Don bought a couple of clubs for us to experiment with. One of them was a super whippy driver. I don’t remember what shaft exactly was in it, but it felt like elastic, even for me who likes a good amount of flex in the shaft. That was until I hit it. You could almost feel the club head flopping around in the backswing, but at impact, it felt like hitting the ball with rebar! We had to guess the torque (I ended up with a nice one off wedge from it), but it really highlighted just how important torque is to the feel of the club at impact. Way more important than the flex as far as I’m concerned.
 
Mark_UK said:
I attended the hand crafted event a few years back, and Don bought a couple of clubs for us to experiment with. One of them was a super whippy driver. I don’t remember what shaft exactly was in it, but it felt like elastic, even for me who likes a good amount of flex in the shaft. That was until I hit it. You could almost feel the club head flopping around in the backswing, but at impact, it felt like hitting the ball with rebar! We had to guess the torque (I ended up with a nice one off wedge from it), but it really highlighted just how important torque is to the feel of the club at impact. Way more important than the flex as far as I’m concerned.
Click to expand...
Well...what was the torque value? Golf nerd minds want to know... :ROFLMAO:
I'm guessing about 15 if the head was flopping around in the backswing? That's a lot of head rotation!!
 
blueonblack said:
Well...what was the torque value? Golf nerd minds want to know... :ROFLMAO:
I'm guessing about 15 if the head was flopping around in the backswing? That's a lot of head rotation!!
Click to expand...
2.1 if I remember correctly. I was exaggerating about the head flopping about, but it was an extremely bendy shaft, even for me.
 
Mark_UK said:
2.1 if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
I'd beleive 20.1.
2.1 is a pretty stout torque value. Is this the same shaft that was flopping in the backswing?
 
By the way, I think they are JUST getting started in focusing in more on torque values in shafts.
More specifically, in differing sections of the shafts. They're already been doing so for some time, but it does seem like the final frontier for potential in equipment development that could still have some noticeable returns and gains. Bryson there again. Smart man. (y)
 
blueonblack said:
I'd beleive 20.1.
2.1 is a pretty stout torque value. Is this the same shaft that was flopping in the backswing?
Click to expand...
Yeah. That was the point of the experiment. It was a soft whippy shaft that felt like a plank of wood at impact. To me at least, as one of the most cynical shaft people on the forum, it opened my eyes to what to look for in shafts. I don’t buy the whole making big gains in ball flight and spin with the shaft (something that was also confirmed during that trip) but for feel, it’s super important. What I took away from that trip was the torque value plays a more important role, at least to me, in how a shaft feels than the flex.
 
Mark_UK said:
Yeah. That was the point of the experiment. It was a soft whippy shaft that felt like a plank of wood at impact. To me at least, as one of the most cynical shaft people on the forum, it opened my eyes to what to look for in shafts. I don’t buy the whole making big gains in ball flight and spin with the shaft (something that was also confirmed during that trip) but for feel, it’s super important. What I took away from that trip was the torque value plays a more important role, at least to me, in how a shaft feels than the flex.
Click to expand...
From what you describe, they were giving you a window into what's to come in the way that shaft loaded and unloaded and what perceived torque values are at present. 2.1 is a plank of a shaft, but if it can feel soft until the impact position? That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about and that is super cool to hear. Thanks. (y)

Project X. Duly noted. Will be focusing more on their shafts now for sure.
 
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