Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?

[GolfLivesMatter]

The below video has over 400k views which means people are assessing the single plane option. I've heard of this before so it's not new to me, but I also never tried it either. So yesterday I experimented out on the course for 27 holes to replicate actual playing conditions, mindset, etc. The results were interesting, but certainly one day of trial is hardly a true evaluation. One caveat is "was I really doing a single plane swing or did I feel like I was". I don't know, but certainly the setup and stance was more in-line with the single plane. The results between the two swings was somewhat unique in terms of directional stability and simplicity. I want to add that with either swing the lower body must start the downswing, so there's no cheating with the single plane swing, but I did find the lower body wanting to engage a little better with the single plane, without focusing on my lower body. That too needs more experimentation to know for sure.

I played "Tiger vs. Couples" with two balls on each hole. The more difficult aspect was reaching out on the single plane vs. my hands being closer to my body. The other change was moving to a wider stance on one swing, then back to a narrower stance on "my swing". On a par 3 170 I hit "my swing" and pulled the ball left which is a more common miss for me. Then I tried the single plane. The ball flew online to the pin, not some perfect shot in terms of being 2 feet from the pin, but directionally superior. This occurred with shorter irons as well, whereby I tend to push those shots to the right. The single plane with the wider stance did seem to feel like it reduced body movement variability. That said, the wider the stance naturally limits hips and/or shoulders slide/sway movement, or possibly getting ahead of the ball on the down swing. If I stand with my feet together I can slide / sway far more, which is the same for everyone. So in my short experiment I can see how the stance does reduce variable movements. As for driver, I hit several drives that were 15-25 yards farther than with "my swing". However, that too could be anecdotal, but it was nonetheless a positive deviation, and it didn't feel unnatural.

It did feel a bit odd to have my arms more extended at address, but that said, it also did feel more like I knew where to get back to on the downswing. I am fairly certain golf instructors have poo-pooed the single plane swing for many years, but some argue (as in this video) that doing so makes the swing more complicated than it needs to be. Hmmm. I'm curious if others have tried this swing?

 

[Luchnia]

I have always thought the single plane is spot on. My driver is mostly single plane and hybrids/woods, however I am not always 100% extended. My best fairways are when I use single plane, but my iron game has to be mixed to work. I just cannot hit my irons with my arms fully extended. Much like you, full arm extension is more difficult.

If I were younger, I would completely revert my game to the single plane swing that Moe used. I find it overall easier on the body and when implemented properly it is extremely accurate. Unlike Moe, I cannot hit a zillion balls a day to refine it

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Heh. Before I started learning golf and how to swing, the logical, engineering part of my brain told me that eliminating as many variables as possible in swinging to hit the ball would be the rational way to approach it.

Now, not knowing biometrics, it had not occurred to me that what I was being taught was essentially introducing variables into my swing. Now comes BDC, people like Todd Graves, and others, telling me "They've been teaching you how to do it the hard way." (And, I would add, the painful way.)

I've watched a couple other SPS videos over the last couple days, but Graves, in that video, explaining the biometrics in detail, really brings it home for me. Having an engineering/scientific mindset, I need to understand the "why" as well as the "how."

I'm gonna have to give that a try with at least my driver. The driver is so much different, to me, from my other clubs--even my woods, that I can easily see using SPS off the tee and a traditional swing off the deck.

Thanks for posting that vid, @GolfLivesMatter

 

[blueonblack]

The biggest thing I see immediately similar between the single and traditional plane, is the maintanence of the "triangle" position of the arms at setup position. Bryson's flexibility is OFF THE CHARTS employing this methodology, as I think it takes quite a turn to generate the position to get inside from the top and maintaining that straight left arm ALL the way back. Wow.

Most single planers like Badds I think was one, the power seems to be lost with the longer clubs. So Bryson really is a freak with what he's doing with it. But I can't see others doing it, necessarily, as it will really put a strain on the body trying to make that swing a power swing. It is an accuracy swing.
I view it almost like "dead hands" in the short game, but "dead arms" for the full. Just maintaining that setup.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Heh. Before I started learning golf and how to swing, the logical, engineering part of my brain told me that eliminating as many variables as possible in swinging to hit the ball would be the rational way to approach it.

Now, not knowing biometrics, it had not occurred to me that what I was being taught was essentially introducing variables into my swing. Now comes BDC, people like Todd Graves, and others, telling me "They've been teaching you how to do it the hard way." (And, I would add, the painful way.)

I've watched a couple other SPS videos over the last couple days, but Graves, in that video, explaining the biometrics in detail, really brings it home for me. Having an engineering/scientific mindset, I need to understand the "why" as well as the "how."

I'm gonna have to give that a try with at least my driver. The driver is so much different, to me, from my other clubs--even my woods, that I can easily see using SPS off the tee and a traditional swing off the deck.

Thanks for posting that vid, @GolfLivesMatter

Yeah, it's an interesting option, or.....should the SPS be the standard and the "normally taught" swing is the option?

Now that I look at the arm extension in the video again, I don't think I was quite that extended, but they were certainly far more extended than with my normal swing. I definitely had a wider stance as in the video. The wider stance certainly does limit some variable movements, especially the one I battle with which is my left shoulder and left hip wanting to move slightly left past the ball at the start of the downswing. It feels nearly impossible to do the same with the SPS stance. I do think the stance works in combination with the arm extension, thus doing one half-a** stance will implode the entire movement. It's fairly easy to experiment by just taking a REALLY WIDE stance and swinging any club, then take a feet together stance and compare the introduction of variability.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

The biggest thing I see immediately similar between the single and traditional plane, is the maintanence of the "triangle" position of the arms at setup position. Bryson's flexibility is OFF THE CHARTS employing this methodology, as I think it takes quite a turn to generate the position to get inside from the top and maintaining that straight left arm ALL the way back. Wow.

Most single planers like Badds I think was one, the power seems to be lost with the longer clubs. So Bryson really is a freak with what he's doing with it. But I can't see others doing it, necessarily, as it will really put a strain on the body trying to make that swing a power swing. It is an accuracy swing.
I view it almost like "dead hands" in the short game, but "dead arms" for the full. Just maintaining that setup.

I can tell you that Bryson is mad crazy, but as noted, I've hit some noticeably longer drives with the SPS. I tried it again today (but I couldn't play two balls) and it almost started feeling like a possible change. I'm going to play tomorrow with two balls and play all shots with the SPS with one ball. If anything it will confuse my brain enough to maybe not get in the way of either swing!

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I have always thought the single plane is spot on. My driver is mostly single plane and hybrids/woods, however I am not always 100% extended. My best fairways are when I use single plane, but my iron game has to be mixed to work. I just cannot hit my irons with my arms fully extended. Much like you, full arm extension is more difficult.

If I were younger, I would completely revert my game to the single plane swing that Moe used. I find it overall easier on the body and when implemented properly it is extremely accurate. Unlike Moe, I cannot hit a zillion balls a day to refine it

I kinda think the idea is a person does not have to hit a zillion balls as we're told with the normally taught swing. Still experimenting so I may eat my words but it seems logical a low variable swing would be easier to learn and play at least decently well.

 

[tahoebum]

If I was younger I'd likely give One Length and single plane a go but I'm too old to hit that many balls to rebuild my swing.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

If I was younger I'd likely give One Length and single plane a go but I'm too old to hit that many balls to rebuild my swing.

Tahoe, you look like 48 in that pic, unless of course that's your high school pic...Lol!

 

[tahoebum]

Tahoe, you look like 48 in that pic, unless of course that's your high school pic...Lol!

I definitely look my age with lots of grey hair and sun damaged skin but lucky for me my same age wife looks younger and she would tell you I still act like a 16 year old.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

I kinda think the idea is a person does not have to hit a zillion balls as we're told with the normally taught swing.

That is one of the many claims.

I think I'm going to give it a try with my driver, tomorrow. As I noted in a thread I started earlier today: I'm not having much luck doing it the traditional way, so I'd really have little to lose

As an aside: Can you imagine what golf instructors the world over are having to endure this week? All the people asking them about this new-fangled BDC swing?

 

[TCB2010]

To me this looks like an upper body/all arms swing.
Is this swing plane deal the same with irons, the whole reach thing also?
I gotta assume this works for Bryson because same one length irons and or they might be longer than whatever standard is?

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I definitely look my age with lots of grey hair and sun damaged skin but lucky for me my same age wife looks younger and she would tell you I still act like a 16 year old.



View attachment 8964899

Crap...you look like an MMA fighter!!! Thanks for the pic!!!

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

To me this looks like an upper body/all arms swing.
Is this swing plane deal the same with irons, the whole reach thing also?
I gotta assume this works for Bryson because same one length irons and or they might be longer than whatever standard is?

Actually that would be the perception, but if you watch Bryson's hip turn and subsequent whip action it's not all upper body.

 

[razaar]

Not for me. I am used to swinging my hands under my chin or at my feet for some shots. I don't have the speed to aim higher at what??

 

[nlk10010]

Out of all the swing models I've tried, I've stuck with the Todd Graves one the most (damning with faint praise, I guess). I used it yesterday at one of the local 9-holes I frequent but was kind of surreptitious about it because I figured my playing partners would say something like: "Oh, now that BDC won the U.S. Open EVERYONE is trying his swing". I would have told them no, BDC's swing is not really this one and anyway I've been on and off Graves' model for the entire Summer. But they didn't, they were too worried about their own problems.

The "only" characteristic of BDC's swing (IMO, of course) that is like Graves' is the elevated hands at address. Of course it's an important one but the rest of his swing really has more in common with S&T than single-plane in the sense that he remains centered over the ball. It's back-and-through. Graves' model is to me, as I've said elsewhere, numerous times, the most "intellectually pleasing" of the swing approaches as it's tightly structured. You have a stop in the back (trail leg), a stop in the front (bent lead knee) and you swing around that bent lead knee. You can use your torso to lead but it definitely is not an "arms swing" in the sense they really don't take independent flight until you hit the front stop. I like the idea of "returning to the positions in the model" to diagnose faults.

The above said, it isn't a "magic swing". Being someone who likes to use arms and has trouble getting the body forward I hit plenty of fat, thin, sliced shots. I've been tempted to switch to a different model (yet again!) but want to stick with this. I have hit some good shots, they do tend to go straighter and I also get more "ball first" hits which improves my distance. But you still need to let the body (torso or whatever) go first and you have to resist the temptation to slide forward on the downswing. You have to hang back and trust the club will reach the ball.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Out of all the swing models I've tried, I've stuck with the Todd Graves one the most (damning with faint praise, I guess). I used it yesterday at one of the local 9-holes I frequent but was kind of surreptitious about it because I figured my playing partners would say something like: "Oh, now that BDC won the U.S. Open EVERYONE is trying his swing". I would have told them no, BDC's swing is not really this one and anyway I've been on and off Graves' model for the entire Summer. But they didn't, they were too worried about their own problems.

The "only" characteristic of BDC's swing (IMO, of course) that is like Graves' is the elevated hands at address. Of course it's an important one but the rest of his swing really has more in common with S&T than single-plane in the sense that he remains centered over the ball. It's back-and-through. Graves' model is to me, as I've said elsewhere, numerous times, the most "intellectually pleasing" of the swing approaches as it's tightly structured. You have a stop in the back (trail leg), a stop in the front (bent lead knee) and you swing around that bent lead knee. You can use your torso to lead but it definitely is not an "arms swing" in the sense they really don't take independent flight until you hit the front stop. I like the idea of "returning to the positions in the model" to diagnose faults.

The above said, it isn't a "magic swing". Being someone who likes to use arms and has trouble getting the body forward I hit plenty of fat, thin, sliced shots. I've been tempted to switch to a different model (yet again!) but want to stick with this. I have hit some good shots, they do tend to go straighter and I also get more "ball first" hits which improves my distance. But you still need to let the body (torso or whatever) go first and you have to resist the temptation to slide forward on the downswing. You have to hang back and trust the club will reach the ball.

Interesting overview. I think the wider stance serves to limit a forward slide. If I take a super-wide stance it's hard to sway / slide very far either way. Conversely, if I stand with my feet together I can sway / slide to the maximum. I have some experimentation to do. Lol.

 

[Notto]

I've tried this a number of times... but never could feel comfortable doing it. For me, tension kills the golf swing... extending arms, straight legs... just don't help feel a good setup and swing. I adopted the Brian Sparks method a few months ago and this feel much more natural to me. Looser... more relaxed... It has improved my game a ton. I enjoy playing much more. I can easily identify swing faults and correct them... most importantly, at 51... no more back pain.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I've tried this a number of times... but never could feel comfortable doing it. For me, tension kills the golf swing... extending arms, straight legs... just don't help feel a good setup and swing. I adopted the Brian Sparks method a few months ago and this feel much more natural to me. Looser... more relaxed... It has improved my game a ton. I enjoy playing much more. I can easily identify swing faults and correct them... most importantly, at 51... no more back pain.

I was like "who's Brian Sparks?" then I saw the video...yep, saw that several years ago. Yes, very simplified. What I notice is there's absolutely no arm / upper body tension (or appears at least to me). He's letting the club whip-thru easily. This reminds me of Paul Wilson's effortless golf swing where he goes into more detail, but it's essentially the same concept. Sparks / Wilson make it look so easy which i think confuses the folks who might think the swing is more complicated, or if they're like me, apply too much force early in the downswing. Spark's method works especially well on those shorter pitch or approach shots to avoid blading or chunking. I recall another guy cutting grass which was also a great video.

[EDIT] I wanted to add that I see swings more like his on practice swings on the course. Some guy's practice swings look very much like Brian's, then all hell breaks loose on the "ball swing". The transition to the ball swing from practice is probably the toughest part of golf. Weird.

 

[Luchnia]

I was like "who's Brian Sparks?" then I saw the video...yep, saw that several years ago. Yes, very simplified. What I notice is there's absolutely no arm / upper body tension (or appears at least to me). He's letting the club whip-thru easily. This reminds me of Paul Wilson's effortless golf swing where he goes into more detail, but it's essentially the same concept. Sparks / Wilson make it look so easy which i think confuses the folks who might think the swing is more complicated, or if they're like me, apply too much force early in the downswing. Spark's method works especially well on those shorter pitch or approach shots to avoid blading or chunking. I recall another guy cutting grass which was also a great video.

The easy swing somewhat combined with the SP produces some interesting results and for the most part, tension free golf.

 

[Vortex]

I embarked on a journey to improve my ball striking (especially with irons) earlier this year. It's not quite like the video but there's plenty of similarities. My issue was early extension + flip. There's still plenty of room for improvement but I'm happy with the progress. The plan for this winter is adding speed, speed and more speed. Most of my buddies hit is farther than me. That's going to change! FWIW, I completely agreed with the video on this part. Fewer variables helps create speed.

 

[Notto]

The easy swing somewhat combined with the SP produces some interesting results and for the most part, tension free golf.

Yeah... also, his whole mental approach to the game is very good. His book is excellent and his videos where he responds to email questions are very helpful. I've gotten to where I can have an "off" day and still enjoy golfing because I know my game is not headed down the drain for some mysterious, unknown reason. I usually know what the problem is, but it may take a few holes to correct it because my old way of thinking\swinging creeps back in if I am not deliberate in "thinking new". That could put a dent in the scorecard, but I know it is temporary.

 

[Luchnia]

I think the there are two things that make the SP swing challenging for me. One is bending and locking the left leg and swinging against it to create power, and full arm extension. I can do the full arm extension much easier than I can lock the left leg. Maybe I lock my left leg, but it doesn't feel like I do. Also, Moe could swing through so nicely, whereas I have to be careful as I tend to come up a bit quick which can cause other ball flight issues.

I have stated this before, but good to do it again. My best ever day of driving the golf ball was on a 9 hole course where I hit 6 of 7 fairways down the middle and one on the edge with the driver, which for me was totally ridiculous. I felt for a while like I was a real golfer

I am fortunate if I get 40% of my fairways, but that day the single plan swing clicked for me. I even finished somewhat like Moe did when I drove the ball. Those were some of my absolute straightest drivers I have ever hit and the thing is I remember how that felt. I have since tried to reproduce that and have not yet done it again to that extent.

 

[WILDTHING]

Isn't this the definition of a single plane swing?

"In a one plane golf swing, the club stays on the same plane throughout the whole swing from start to finish. That means that the angle of the shaft in relation to the ground on the backswing is the same as it is on the downswing."

But that doesn't mean that the rest of your upper body is moving on the same plane because I reckon its biomechanically very difficult. I can easily imagine that your shoulder joints, elbows, wrist joints will be moving on different planes to ensure that clubshaft is on one plane. Does that make it easier than a conventional type of swing?

 

[nlk10010]

Isn't this the definition of a single plane swing?

"In a one plane golf swing, the club stays on the same plane throughout the whole swing from start to finish. That means that the angle of the shaft in relation to the ground on the backswing is the same as it is on the downswing."

But that doesn't mean that the rest of your upper body is moving on the same plane because I reckon its biomechanically very difficult. I can easily imagine that your shoulder joints, elbows, wrist joints will be moving on different planes to ensure that clubshaft is on one plane. Does that make it easier than a conventional type of swing?

I believe that depends on WHICH single-plane swing you're talking about.

I think I have this right: In the Hardy approach single-plane really means that the plane determined by your arms and shoulders at address is parallel to the plane determined by your arms and shoulders at the top (or something like that); the point is that they are NOT the same plane, they are parallel. In the downswing you need to "drop down" to the address plane before striking the ball. In the Moe Norman version, single-plane means exactly that: There is ONE plane, determined by the club and arms at address, and at least in theory the club and arms remain in that same plane, back and through. I think even Graves admits that Moe departed a bit from that on the way back and came under the plane slightly on the downswing.

If I'm incorrect I'm sure someone will correct me.