Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?

[Rummpd]

At my age and strength at 63 (although working on that) I would hit it 150 max and just don’t get with all his strength where BD is getting his unreal distance out of this swing. Moe Norman one of the great ball strikers was regarded as short. So how does Bryson make this work?

 

[pinseeker]

At my age and strength at 63 (although working on that) I would hit it 150 max and just don’t get with all his strength where BD is getting his unreal distance out of this swing. Moe Norman one of the great ball strikers was regarded as short. So how does Bryson make this work?

for one thing, BD has really "beefed up" from his prior self. That guy is a "tank".

 

[Rummpd]

for one thing, BD has really "beefed up" from his prior self. That guy is a "tank".

I understand that but it seems he would hit it even farther with a more classic swing with “hinges”; then the one plane but it is working for him - thanks

 

[nlk10010]

At my age and strength at 63 (although working on that) I would hit it 150 max and just don’t get with all his strength where BD is getting his unreal distance out of this swing. Moe Norman one of the great ball strikers was regarded as short. So how does Bryson make this work?

My UNDERSTANDING (only) is that, as has been observed, BD does not do a "Moe Norman"-type swing, more what I would call a "single-plane S&T". That is, he just rotates back and then down and through, using his hips and with very little lateral motion of the body. I'm sure plenty of pressure shift, but he tries to stay centered over the ball as much as possible. In a sense, a turbo-charged Paul Wilson body swing, although, again, without the intention to laterally shift. Wind up, creating torque, then release it.

 

[David-G]

My UNDERSTANDING (only) is that, as has been observed, BD does not do a "Moe Norman"-type swing, more what I would call a "single-plane S&T". That is, he just rotates back and then down and through, using his hips and with very little lateral motion of the body. I'm sure plenty of pressure shift, but he tries to stay centered over the ball as much as possible. In a sense, a turbo-charged Paul Wilson body swing, although, again, without the intention to laterally shift. Wind up, creating torque, then release it.

I believe he is going closer and closer to Moe's swing as he figures out quickly and with technology what Moe discovered over millions of golf balls. With the eliminating unneeded movements & left knee bend to reduce the rips from rotating to far to the left, allowing the face to stay square longer. So what BD did was add more power to this to maximize the the club speed and found that he can add as much speed as he can through weight & swing speed training and still have a square face at impact. Not sure where that delta would fall apart, but he hasn't reached it yet.

Moe was a Very consistent 250 yard driver, even as his swing became more compact as he aged and lost feasibility, still was 250 straight down the middle right up till the end.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

My question is does BDC obtain a ball speed in excess of 200mph because of his swing type, or does he have the foundation in terms of looking like an NFL defensive end and a conditioning regimen that supports the massive swing speeds? Plus, what's the role of loft and launch angle in terms of added distance combined with ultra-speed.

Then I came across this video about how BDC generates so much power. It's interesting that they do not make any reference to the SPS swing in terms of the primary foundation for BDC's distance.

 

[David-G]

My question is does BDC obtain a ball speed in excess of 200mph because of his swing type, or does he have the foundation in terms of looking like an NFL defensive end and a conditioning regimen that supports the massive swing speeds? Plus, what's the role of loft and launch angle in terms of added distance combined with ultra-speed.

Then I came across this video about how BDC generates so much power. It's interesting that they do not make any reference to the SPS swing in terms of the primary foundation for BDC's distance.

Matt from TXG can kill a golf ball and without the bulk of Bryson. As per above though, I think he has figured out how to put in the same foundation and minimalist aspects as Moe Norman and added muscle to add more speed. He's found out there might not be a limit to this combination and can keep building upon it to get even faster.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Matt from TXG can kill a golf ball and without the bulk of Bryson. As per above though, I think he has figured out how to put in the same foundation and minimalist aspects as Moe Norman and added muscle to add more speed. He's found out there might not be a limit to this combination and can keep building upon it to get even faster.

I agree about Matt.

Here's a good overview of BDC's swing. The guys at the end try to mimic BDC but they really didn't setup like BDC and they weren't using a 5* driver with jumbo grips. I think if I were to really buckle down and try to emulate BDC I would get used 7* driver and add a jumbo grip because that seems to be part of the formula. The other aspect is BDC basically doubled his overall swing speed to where he's now at impact whereby he was at the top before. That's also interesting. I play golf with a guy who has a shorter but very fast backswing and for his age he hits very long drives in the 270 range....again, with an abbreviated backswing, but fast.

 

[pinseeker]

"Golfer, I played with BDC and I knew BDC. Golfer, you are no BDC". (Dan Quail).

 

[RollingStone73]

I am reviving this thread. First year golfer here, and I have been working on single plane at the suggestion of my instructor due to a history of traumatic injury. She's not an expert on the swing, but knew enough to fit me correctly and point me towards Moe Norman videos on YouTube.

Fast forward six months, having zero'd out my path and gotten to a good low point and attack angle on Trackman over the winter, I was still dealing with a face angle that was chronically open a few degrees and lowish launch due to excessive shaft lean/late release.

Last weekend, I attended a Single Plane Experience course through Graves Golf. This isn't a review, but there were pluses and minuses in my mind. Two ah hah's that made it worthwhile for me, though:

• Setup: "Strong" grip with left forearm rotated all the way outward when extended; torso tilted to point where the closed face is brought back to square at the impact position. This was huge for me, since it immediately cured my push fade and eliminated the need to time my release. It also cured me being too steep on my driver.
• Transition: Begins with the feet, with 60% weight on inside of back heel at top of backswing to inside of ball of lead foot at impact - not a shift, so centerline is unaffected and low point does not move.

Has anyone else experienced similar results? I am also interested in any other single plane instructors out there.

 

[Desmond]

Wish I could, but can't help you. I'm not educated as to labeling the swing as single plane or otherwise. I let go of those definitions from my mind long ago along with Stack and Tilt or other labels. I have an instructor that doesn't use such verbiage and I haven't asked him about it. The Transition paragraph sounds right, percentages may differ.

 

[nlk10010]

-snip-
Last weekend, I attended a Single Plane Experience course through Graves Golf. This isn't a review, but there were pluses and minuses in my mind. Two ah hah's that made it worthwhile for me, though:

• Setup: "Strong" grip with left forearm rotated all the way outward when extended; torso tilted to point where the closed face is brought back to square at the impact position. This was huge for me, since it immediately cured my push fade and eliminated the need to time my release. It also cured me being too steep on my driver.
• Transition: Begins with the feet, with 60% weight on inside of back heel at top of backswing to inside of ball of lead foot at impact - not a shift, so centerline is unaffected and low point does not move.

-snip-

Well, FWIW, I'm not an instructor but am "getting into" the Graves single-plane swing method. Its structure is very appealing to me and it's the ONLY method, for whatever reason, with which I've managed to stick, despite ups and (pronounced) downs. I think I understand it and seem to have more frequent good shots than with any other method.

I joined the GGA (as expensive as it is) because this way I at least have someone to turn to when my swing puts me up against a brick wall, and as a result golf has become somewhat less frustrating to me. I also am considering going to one of their 3-day schools (up in Connecticut) but am curious about your observations. They seem at variance with my understanding of the "technique" (for want of a better word). First, I have been working on the grip and don't see anywhere they recommend it be strong; rather (like Junge) they stress it's a neutral grip, with the back of the lead hand aligned with the leading edge of the club, both facing the target at impact. Second, from what I can tell there actually IS a small lateral shift as you "settle" into the lead knee on the downswing, moving the low point forward from behind the ball to in front.

Again, the above are just my impressions: Being a newbie (as opposed to someone like you who has been to their school), I just wanted to confirm your take on their teachings. If indeed your descriptions of the Setup and Transition are accurate, I've got to rethink things a bit because I'm missing something (actually, quite a lot).

Thanks for any info.

 

[RollingStone73]

Well, FWIW, I'm not an instructor but am "getting into" the Graves single-plane swing method. Its structure is very appealing to me and it's the ONLY method, for whatever reason, with which I've managed to stick, despite ups and (pronounced) downs. I think I understand it and seem to have more frequent good shots than with any other method.

I joined the GGA (as expensive as it is) because this way I at least have someone to turn to when my swing puts me up against a brick wall, and as a result golf has become somewhat less frustrating to me. I also am considering going to one of their 3-day schools (up in Connecticut) but am curious about your observations. They seem at variance with my understanding of the "technique" (for want of a better word). First, I have been working on the grip and don't see anywhere they recommend it be strong; rather (like Junge) they stress it's a neutral grip, with the back of the lead hand aligned with the leading edge of the club, both facing the target at impact. Second, from what I can tell there actually IS a small lateral shift as you "settle" into the lead knee on the downswing, moving the low point forward from behind the ball to in front.

Again, the above are just my impressions: Being a newbie (as opposed to someone like you who has been to their school), I just wanted to confirm your take on their teachings. If indeed your descriptions of the Setup and Transition are accurate, I've got to rethink things a bit because I'm missing something (actually, quite a lot).

Thanks for any info.

Yes, the basics that I wrote above were taken from the course. I don’t know what the longer courses are like, but I wish I could find an alternative. I’ve done Tour Striker and GGA didn’t hold a candle to them in terms of quality of instruction or overall experience. They were also very salesy with their gadgets, which I resented them doing on time I’d paid for. I do believe they are onto something with the swing, though.

 

[Rummpd]

I have a series of injuries and am a doctor trained in sports medicine and I can see a lot of value of a single plane swing for those with reduced mobility but I also perceive it may take a lot of strength - personally have gone other way and trying to get my own swing which has been referred to as a “Trevino” motion to have a little more wrist action etc. I have played to a two when younger and have used various methods so whatever works-bravo and props for being able to try this method.

 

[nlk10010]

Well, the hawking of their training aids doesn't surprise me, although from what you tell me TourStriker (which also has a number of aids) didn't do it; that does disappoint me. Unfortunately, TS doesn't have any schools near me, although a couple of years ago Martin Chuck did conduct a one-day school up here, I decided not to go although I was impressed by him as a coach.

Thing is, as you observe, I really like the SP swing structure and Graves' teaching (at least on video). I'm hoping the in-person school will help even further, so I'll just have to grin and bear the sales pitch. Plus, wifey and I haven't been away, anywhere, for a long time, so at the very least we'll be getting in a little trip to Mystic Seaport.

Thanks for posting a reply with the details.

Edit: Just saw your second reply. I've tried a lot of different swings, all to no avail. I'd switch back and forth on the course: When one method failed, I'd move on to the next. Graves' method is the only one I want to stick with, most likely because it has the simplified structure and logical approach I like so much in my day job (academic research papers). Given my physical condition; i.e. 70 years old with an arthritic back and pronounced hump/slouch, I didn't think I could employ body rotation in my swing. For whatever reason, I don't have an issue with using hip rotation to drive THIS particular swing. Note I have no dog in this fight, I just use what seems to work at the time. Whether that continues, who knows? I've been fooled before, maybe this will prove to be more of the same. But it's fun trying so instead of taking something like a vacation to Europe I'm spending money on this kind of entertainment.

 

[David-G]

• Setup: "Strong" grip with left forearm rotated all the way outward when extended; torso tilted to point where the closed face is brought back to square at the impact position. This was huge for me, since it immediately cured my push fade and eliminated the need to time my release. It also cured me being too steep on my driver.
• Transition: Begins with the feet, with 60% weight on inside of back heel at top of backswing to inside of ball of lead foot at impact - not a shift, so centerline is unaffected and low point does not move.

Second year with Single Plane for me, after a decade of a more taught rotational swing.

* I had the same issue. My grip is now 2 knuckles exposed to my view on left hand then right hand comes from underneath after you do the torso tilt back 13-17 degrees. This will give you a strong grip when you stand back up to a straight up torso and view.
* On the takeaway there is a right hip rotation which should shift weight to your right foot, as you bring the club down the path the weight will shift to your slightly bent knee left leg with most of the weight ending on the left leg a bout half way down though the swing. This keeps the left hip from going to far and giving the longest near square face of any swing - hence it should be easier to hit it straighter or with a small draw of fade.

Hope it helps. I shot 5 strokes lower last year then any year playing so far. Hope to drop another 6 this year to hit 70's.....

 

[PatsFan]

I really wanted to go to the 1 day school in CT but it was filled by the time I saw it.

 

[Rummpd]

Simple question = I can buy the accuracy and repeat nature of swing but except for Bryson who is a beast are you getting the same or more distance?

 

[David-G]

Simple question = I can buy the accuracy and repeat nature of swing but except for Bryson who is a beast are you getting the same or more distance?

Initially I got less distance and more accuracy. Year 2 I started to gain it back. But what I learned from watching Bryson, you can add as much power to it as you like and still retain that accuracy. I can swing out of my shoes now and still hit it in the fairway..

 

[DataDude]

When I went to get my lofts checked on my OL sticks the fitter told me I basically have a single plane swing except I am collapsing after contact. He told me to try to stay extended as long as possible. Lightbulb moment as since then I have been hitting the ball very accurately and consistently powerful for my ability.

 

[Arlo]

It's been documented to be 0.2 to 0.25 seconds. So short a time that it is all but impossible for your brain to communicate anything to your muscles, and your muscles too react, by the time the club hits the ball.

In short: By the time you begin your swing, the ball's fate is determined.

Obviously the brain communicates to nerves and muscles in the DS. If it doesnt you have the YIPS.
0.2-0.25 second is insufficient time to consciously communicate to nerves and muscles during the DS. It can only be done by preprogram in the subconscious initiated by a singular intention.(also called inaccurately, muscle memory)

Change any link in a complex chain action and the entire chain changes and singular intention must also change.

 

[Arlo]

I watched this video by Todd Graves. He talks about how Moe Norman achieved a "vertical drop" using hip movement. Someone help me out here. The arms will vertically drop in any swing once the hips start to rotate because they have to drop. How is this any different than any other swing method?

Moe Norman called secret to his swing: the vertical drop and horizontal tug


This is the swing that won 55 CPGA tournaments and 33 course records
In his 70's long after pro wins and course records, Moe was convinced to modify his swing.
2001 modified swing (Natural Golf). Moe died in 2004 at age 75



Graves has tried to make a living off Moes "single plane swing" except the swing Moe used to win and break course records, and break 60 several times was not "single plane"
His vertical drop was more similiar to Ben Hogans move or even George Knudson, also an admirer of Ben Hogan.
The vertical drop, or as Ben Hogan called it the " Slot" happens as a result of keeping the right palm facing the sky from top of BS through impact.

 

[Arlo]

The guy said that people can't make swing adjustments after they start their swings because the body is moving too fast. False. Jack Nicklaus (in his own words via either the Pinnacle or Prime show on the golf channel) made a swing adjustment on a 2 iron at the Master's and stuck it about 2 feet away from the pin. He said he brought it too far inside on the backswing, he recognized it, held slightly longer than normal to compensate for it to prevent hooking it. He said the normal person can only think about 1 or 2 things during a golf swing. Jack said he could think about 5 or 6 thing. He lost me after that. Is he selling a program or something? He said a couple of other things like, "it's the only way to play the game, imo." How many majors does a single plane swinger have under their belt vs traditional swingers?

NO one can consciously control the DS once it has begun.
The BS happens slow enough to control consciously up until the top of BS. Once DS begins.. its one intention and its over. In your example, Jack made an adjustment in BS.