Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
The SPS is pretty much on the money for me when I use it except I have a tendency to pull in my left arm slightly on any swing I do and I have to really watch that. Not sure why that happens, but it often does and it causes me some challenges. It causes me aim problems at times as well on Par 3s. If I can get that worked out, I think I will definitely improve my game more and I may even be able to adopt the SPS better.
I think the SPS just makes you feel so extended until you get more used to it (much like a grip change) that you get nervous it won't work. We should always remember great ball strikers like Moe hit zillions of golf balls and you find those that have well developed swings normally do hit gobs of golf balls.
I think the SPS just makes you feel so extended until you get more used to it (much like a grip change) that you get nervous it won't work. We should always remember great ball strikers like Moe hit zillions of golf balls and you find those that have well developed swings normally do hit gobs of golf balls.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #53
Moe hit zillions of balls so you don't have to!
Left arm pulling in....do you mean chicken wing? Also, you mention aim problems on par 3s. How is the aiming process different from an approach shot with similar yardage?
GolfLivesMatter
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- #54
Yes, and even being in the fairway is not always an easy shot given lie angles. Some rough is so punishing that a 3W might only advance the ball 130 yards.
One of my three major swing flaws that keep creeping back in: Too much back-swing. (The other two being failing to keep the leading arm straight, incl. on the down-swing, and failing to keep the trailing arm tucked-in on the back-swing.)
In fact: If I keep my back-swing more limited, the other two flaws aren't as likely to manifest themselves and, if I follow-through well, I get nice, high, long, and usually straight hits.
My golf instructor once told me "You don't need a lot of back-swing. You're tall and have long arms. You can kill it without a lot of back-swing."
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Yes, aiming problem on Par 3s off the tee with irons versus my approach shots. If I pull my left arm in slightly on the tee box with an iron, I hurt my aim. If I am off the turf on approach shots they are a bit different. I think I need to practice trying to hit balls only with my left hand and that will probably cure this.Moe hit zillions of balls so you don't have to!
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
I have one, but have not used it. I suppose I will give it a go. I don't pull my left arm often, but it does happen sometimes. Maybe the impact bag would be perfect. Thanks for reminding me.
I find I pull my left arm only when I don't keep it straight on the down-swing.
I've started more of a single plan this year for my driver, and have been driving it very well. My dad started the Moe Norman single plan this year, and is playing the best golf he ever has. He broke 80 for the first time ever last week.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #61
I used to have to hit 100 left hand shots before starting practice years ago. Then the instructor would have me lightly add the right hand. At impact my right hand was almost off the club handle.
GolfLivesMatter
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So I shot 36 on the front, then got paired with a husband / wife couple on the back nine. Shot 43 on the back. My point is my routine and concentration was too easily side-tracked. I think this may be the most important aspect to better golf.
uitar99
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+1 For me keeping that leading arm straight means less faulty hits. It seems to cut down on other variables needed to compensate and get the club face back to the ball.
GolfLivesMatter
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I've been playing with a guy who is learning golf. His left arm breaks down to complete the backswing, it's almost like he's wrapping the club around his head, and the shaft is barely above his shoulders. I asked him why he does that. He said he played baseball. He proceeded to show me his baseball batting stance. But the best part was in that moment a light bulb went off in his head because he said "Oh wow, I'm playing baseball golf, aren't I". It was an LOL moment. His swing is extremely right side dominant which needs to be addressed, but for now just getting a straight left arm, or maybe slightly bent, is his goal. He did shoot 94 the other day vs. his usual 100+.
Now I'm curious: Which of the several swings that have been discussed here did you employ?
I tried following Todd Graves' instruction. Perhaps I was doing it incorrectly, but I could not make it work for me to save my soul.
Watching Brian Sparks and Jim Venetos: Their swings are neither SPS, nor are they traditional, nor do they resemble one another's.
Another SPS proponent, Kirk Junge, may have the answer for me figuring out SPS. He claims you don't need to go all in right out of the gate.
Note also he doesn't set up as aggressively nor employ the "high-tension" as does Todd Graves. His swing looks more like Paul Wilson doing a SPS.
Scooby555
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I like the Venetos swing and setup but only try it a few balls out of the basket. Was actually getting it to draw like it is supposed to the last couple of balls I hit with it.
I am inconsistent and hit 10 balls great and 10 balls really bad then get back in a groove and fall out of it again.
I have now hit at the driving range 13 times.
and YES I expect to hit every ball on line....lol too high expectations maybe. I am not really hooking nor slicing hardly anymore at all. Pushing it right and pulling it left but no huge curveballs. Making progress.
Finally getting a real lesson this afternoon. Hopefully it helps.
I am inconsistent and hit 10 balls great and 10 balls really bad then get back in a groove and fall out of it again.
I have now hit at the driving range 13 times.
and YES I expect to hit every ball on line....lol too high expectations maybe. I am not really hooking nor slicing hardly anymore at all. Pushing it right and pulling it left but no huge curveballs. Making progress.
Finally getting a real lesson this afternoon. Hopefully it helps.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #67
It will be interesting to see his response.
Venetos is basically teaching how to orientate the right side swing path to be "usable" in the golf swing. The "miss" in that setup will be a straight shot along the shoulder path, otherwise a draw. He sets up with his shoulders excessively closed likely due to teaching new golfers who are excessively right side, OTT dominant. Then he adds S&T-ish weight distribution. I've tried this on the course in real time with maybe a 20* closed shoulder position and I must say it's fairly easy to draw, and my miss was a straight shot. As I progressed to shorter irons I found a reduction in shoulder closure worked best. I rate this as something very easy to do and possibly excellent for folks who struggle with OTT flipping swings. Plus, it's easy to "return" to one's "prior swing" at any time.
Sparks demonstrates a nice relaxed fluid swing around the body. Nobody can go wrong trying to mimic that free-flowing easy swing. In fact, if 90% of the guys I play with had this swing look they'd shave a lot of strokes off their game.
Wilson is similar to Sparks but he stresses early rotation of the hips against the upper body, or unleashing pent-up torque to initiate the down swing with a super relaxed upper body, arms, wrists, etc. I tend to think this is the best swing to mimic. I find when I hit the impact bag I feel and look a lot like what Paul teaches. Plus, the faster I move my hips, the longer the shot, so on the course I can add speed simply by adding a little more hip speed because the club head speed vs. the hips is exponentially faster. The difficult aspect about this swing is deactivating upper-body tension which ironically requires a lot of trust if one has historically been upper-body dominate with a lot of manual manipulation of the club. Folks I know who have tried to mimic Paul often initiate the down swing with their hips for like a billionth of a second, then their hips slow and their upper body roars into the ball.
SPS is a little different in that it feels strange to me to reach out to the ball. That said, I see plenty of guys who reach out to the ball but don't employ the SPS and they struggle to hit the ball. So in their case they're already used to reaching so moving to the SPS is an extremely viable improvement. SPS is harder for me because my hands (when I swing correctly as in Paul Wilson's teachings) are very close to my body at impact such that I stand a little taller and closer to the ball. I can perform the SPS but for me that would be a significant change.
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Glad to see this thread! Ive only played 2-4 rounds per year for a few years due to an injury and I'm all good now. At the beginning of this year I started golf again seriously. I was looking for a scientifically better way to play while removing as many variables as possible. So new clubs, new ball, all purchased in tandem with learning the Todd Graves/Moe style of Single Plane Swing. I purchased the Graves training aids. My swing was in very bad shape and it took me a long time to get the address positions consistent and my swing was slowwww as molasses. But 10 months in with weight/strength training (swingmangolf) and practice my swing speed has went form ~87 to 105 with my driver, my accuracy as improved substantially and I've shot my lowest round ever at 85. Not bad for a 50 year old that's taken essentially 5 years off from all activity.
I'm sold on this and I'm on tract to reach my goal of a single digit handicap and shooting in the 70's next year. I defiantly could not have achieved this without the SPS swing style.
I'm sold on this and I'm on tract to reach my goal of a single digit handicap and shooting in the 70's next year. I defiantly could not have achieved this without the SPS swing style.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #69
There's no doubt the SPS reduces variables. I think a lot of folks are so entrenched in believing the golf swing is very "hard" to learn, so the SPS might seem "too easy" and thus they'll poo-poo it.
While it's not really for me (see above) at the same time I am sure it's far superior to tinkering around with over-analysis and searching for quick-fix swing tips that never happen.
There's no doubt the SPS reduces variables. I think a lot of folks are so entrenched in believing the golf swing is very "hard" to learn, so the SPS might seem "too easy" and thus they'll poo-poo it.
over-analysis - Oh trust me I still do this! But now I have a stable foundation that gives me reassurance: If I can make this swing with the correct form, the address position, the results are repeatable and usually fairly good. I do struggle still with Driver for distance based on my swing speed. The impact is all over the place. But that I think is more of a personal impact/accuracy issue (technique) more then anything.
GolfLivesMatter
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The #1 and #2 thing I do is....RELAX....then "ask" my body execute the swing...any swing. Just yesterday I was singing songs while hitting many shots and amazingly enough my body knew what to do. I used to stand there and run through a chalkboard list of do this, not that, remember to not do this, etc. It's oppressive and no fun, and only serves to heighten tension.
If I could learn to relax through the swing my ball-hitting would improve immensely--of that I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #73
IMO there's no point in dishing-out instructions on the golf course, especially during the swing. I don't need to spend time staring at "the line" to the target because my body already knows where the target is located, and even if I line-up a little off, I often find my body corrects the mistake. It's like when I walk down a flight of stairs, I don't force myself to walk, I just walk without thinking. There are times when I setup to a ball and my brain thinks I'm off line but something tells me I'm fine. I go with the latter and most often that was the correct line-up.
I look at it this way, either my body intuitively knows how to swing the club or it doesn't. So when I miss a shot I simply say to myself "ok, you're not ready for that shot right now", or "maybe try something different next time", but I don't go over all the steps as to what to do next...if that makes sense. There's no getting mad, no carrying-on with some berating internal discussion, or reviewing what I NEED TO DO next time. That sounds like work to me.
There has to be an immense element of trust in one's self on the course which may explain why a range swing can't be replicated on the course, and/or why practice swings look great then real swings go whacko.
GolfLivesMatter
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- #74
I wanted to add to the above that IMO folks should go with the swing that feels the most intuitive, or one that feels "right" for your body, not the brain because the brain will be very happy to ruin any swing. This sounds nuts but I have found my brain instructional side is often in direct conflict with my body's preference as to how to execute a golf swing. I can't count the number of times I've been on the course and gotten super-mad and then said "screw this, I give up!!!!". Then on the next swing I hit a perfect shot. Then I begin to QUESTION WHY I hit the good shot and I got right back to goofy swings.IMO there's no point in dishing-out instructions on the golf course, especially during the swing. I don't need to spend time staring at "the line" to the target because my body already knows where the target is located, and even if I line-up a little off, I often find my body corrects the mistake. It's like when I walk down a flight of stairs, I don't force myself to walk, I just walk without thinking. There are times when I setup to a ball and my brain thinks I'm off line but something tells me I'm fine. I go with the latter and most often that was the correct line-up.
I look at it this way, either my body intuitively knows how to swing the club or it doesn't. So when I miss a shot I simply say to myself "ok, you're not ready for that shot right now", or "maybe try something different next time", but I don't go over all the steps as to what to do next...if that makes sense. There's no getting mad, no carrying-on with some berating internal discussion, or reviewing what I NEED TO DO next time. That sounds like work to me.
There has to be an immense element of trust in one's self on the course which may explain why a range swing can't be replicated on the course, and/or why practice swings look great then real swings go whacko.
Why do I have to 100% know why I hit a good shot? How could I possibly figure that out? Just go with the flow....I think it's called being in the Zone or playing out of one's mind.
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Well, if the weather holds I'm gonna hit the range today and, instead of trying to swing like I was taught to swing, I think I'm gonna experiment with seeing if I can figure out what works for me. Not going to abandon the fundamentals, per se, but try some... variations, I guess you could say. Maybe see if I can somewhat emulate Sparks, or try what Junge was demonstrating. Maybe see what I can make of Venetos' points.
I can make a traditional swing work, but, even after better than three months of practice it still feels contrived, awkward, and wrong.
I can make a traditional swing work, but, even after better than three months of practice it still feels contrived, awkward, and wrong.