Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?

[Duffer Seamus]

Hmmm... See, that's always been one of my problems with athletics: I don't "feel" changes in position and motion very well. People good at athletics do. E.g.: It took me the longest time to feel when I'd gotten my arms into the swing, and then only when a shot went bad and I concentrated on recalling how it felt. So, even though this is a gross change, I don't know as I can describe the differences in feel.

I'll have to try it some more to see if I can quantify it. I'll probably have to go back-and-forth between traditional and SP to figure it out.

It's a lot less fiddly, I'll tell you that. "Have I got my hands over my shoelaces, knees bent just so, etc.?" I just hold the club straight out with my left arm--wrist straight(-ish), add my right arm such that the forearm is on the same plane, then break my knees a bit and bend until the club's on the ground. If ball/club alignment isn't right, slight shuffle forward or backward to adjust.

What's tricky is the back-swing is much different and you have to un-learn some things that became automatic during the down-swing, because your body doesn't have to compensate for the down-swing plane not being the same as during your setup.

Of course: I want it to work RIGHT NOW, because we're nearly out of weather in which to play. I know forcing things leads to sub-optimal outcomes, so I'm having to force myself to approach this step-wise.

I like this video by Kirk Junge:

 

[nlk10010]

So, again, just for S&Gs, I grabbed a limited flight ball and my 7i, and batted a few off the tops of the grass. Kirk Junge is right about this: You can't just transition from a traditional swing to a SPS at full bore. When I tried that it was all fail. He recommends starting with baby swings to get used to the feel, fine tune your personal swing, etc. Doing that produced some pretty encouraging results: I was getting perfectly straight hits, perfect loft, doing baby swings, and easily hitting 'em 55-60 yards.

When I write "perfectly straight" I mean perfectly. Not even the merest hint of fades or draws. The ball went exactly where I intended it to go.

Yea, I do notice that, when done right, I will get a low straight flight.

Problem is, in my "investigations", I've found that you need to be able to get your hips leading the hands, at the appropriate distance, in the downswing. Unless you can master the art of synching the arms and body you really have no hope of executing the Graves OPS, the Junge OPS or, in fact, a number of other swings (e.g. S&T, Paul Wilson, Jim McLean, even Monte with his "bump, dump and turn"). This is as opposed to the group of arm swing models (Larry Rinker, Jim Hardy LOP, Malaska). I simply cannot (either because I have a mental block or physical limitation) rotate my hips through and, as a result, my attempts at doing Graves have pretty consistently failed. I envy you, really, as when I DO manage to do a full rotation of the hips contact is crisp and ball flight is arrow straight.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Yeah, @nlk10010, I have more-or-less learned to lead with my hips, as it were, powered by my legs. Funny thing is: I tried for the longest time to make that happen and could not. Then, one day, it just started happening on its own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[nlk10010]

Thanks for your encouraging words, MD. Funny thing, I can dance pretty well (though the moves are not exactly the same) and it took me a long time to learn to do that; I was hoping golf would be the same type of thing. Unfortunately, it's been ten years and my hips still insist on doing their own thing, at least during a "live swing". Practice swings are a total other thing, which is fascinating in and of itself.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Yeah, @nlk10010, I have more-or-less learned to lead with my hips, as it were, powered by my legs. Funny thing is: I tried for the longest time to make that happen and could not. Then, one day, it just started happening on its own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LOL SO TRUE! It's like the less we TRY to make something happen is when it happens! I've said this about playing the piano. My left hand WOULD NOT play runs...NOPE!! Then one night I sat down, pretty much ready for another episode of "won't happen" and BOOM....the left hand engaged. It's called having patience.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Kirk does a great job simplifying the SPS. Standard address position with the wrists then simply raise them. Basically it's nothing more than pre-setting the impact position. The key will be lower-body rotation, which is the same for any swing type. Grip position, strong or neutral might change so that's something to experiment with.

 

[tahoebum]

I'm not likely to go through the pain of rebuilding my swing at age 55 but now that our golf season ended very early I need some books to read so I bought Todd Graves book on the single plane swing. If nothing else I will expand my knowledge of another swing theory.

 

[Flipit]

I decided to try this, well I think I did anyway. Since I can’t figure out how I could have hit the ball if I didn’t, I’m thinking it fit me pretty well. Meaning the ball is so far away, it’s the only way I could reach it. It actually seemed pretty easy and natural for me. Experiment here we come.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I decided to try this, well I think I did anyway. Since I can’t figure out how I could have hit the ball if I didn’t, I’m thinking it fit me pretty well. Meaning the ball is so far away, it’s the only way I could reach it. It actually seemed pretty easy and natural for me. Experiment here we come.

I saw some reviews of SPS books online. Some guys said "it works for the driver but not the irons". Huh? Impact position is impact position, and ball position is part of the key to the SPS pending the bottom of the arc to match the club being hit. So much disinformation or lack of trial and error.

 

[Flipit]

I saw some reviews of SPS books online. Some guys said "it works for the driver but not the irons". Huh? Impact position is impact position, and ball position is part of the key to the SPS pending the bottom of the arc to match the club being hit. So much disinformation or lack of trial and error.

Far as I can tell it shouldn’t matter. If you set up correctly, grip correctly, and swing on plane it should return the face back to the ball. It feels a bit awkward because it’s new to me. However I hit 8 of 10 extremely well. The other 2 I kinda swung out of my shoes. I’ll keep working with it as more time is needed.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Far as I can tell it shouldn’t matter. If you set up correctly, grip correctly, and swing on plane it should return the face back to the ball. It feels a bit awkward because it’s new to me. However I hit 8 of 10 extremely well. The other 2 I kinda swung out of my shoes. I’ll keep working with it as more time is needed.

The ball placement is key. We want the arc to be steeper into the irons, so the irons ball position is simply moved about 4-5 inches back in the stance because then the bottom of the arc will be slightly past the ball. Driver head position is about a foot behind the ball to accommodate a slight upswing arc.

 

[Flipit]

The ball placement is key. We want the arc to be steeper into the irons, so the irons ball position is simply moved about 4-5 inches back in the stance because then the bottom of the arc will be slightly past the ball. Driver head position is about a foot behind the ball to accommodate a slight upswing arc.

Gotcha. Thanks. That might have taken me a bit to figure out. I’ll give that a try.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Gotcha. Thanks. That might have taken me a bit to figure out. I’ll give that a try.

Just think like you're a machine that swings the same way every time, and the arc is simple physics. Easy for me to say! Lol. But it's true.

 

[Flipit]

Just think like you're a machine that swings the same way every time, and the arc is simple physics. Easy for me to say! Lol. But it's true.

Last night it actually seemed pretty easy to repeat. I actually feel like I have better swim speed and you have to rotate to make it work. Simple.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

I saw some reviews of SPS books online. Some guys said "it works for the driver but not the irons". Huh?

"Huh?" indeed.

The "SPS" I tried with my driver the other day was kind of a traditional/SP hybrid swing in that I wasn't un-cocking my left wrist entirely.

Today I bought a bucket of 60+ balls at my LGS' range. Started with 7i, following Kirk Junge's instructions to the letter. I wasn't getting a lot of distance, but I was hitting more consistently than usual. Switched up to my 5i and achieved similar results with a few more yards. Then up the the 4i. Wasn't as consistent with that, but I did manage improvement. (I've struggled mightily with the 4i using TS [traditional swing].)

On to the woods. 5W, to be exact. Not very successful. Pretty poor, in fact. Then on to the driver. That was a dismal failure. I may have been tiring out by the time I got to the 5w.

The driver thing bugged me, so I just tossed the mat out back and hit three balls using my hybrid swing. One was high and fade-y. Another was way low, but straight. Third was a ground ball. (Knew that was a misfire when I started my swing.) Re-did that one and, again, it was low, but it was straight. The three I hit well-ish were all better than all but one of the dozen+ I tried at the range. I think what was screwing me up at the range is the rubber tees on their mats are really high.

Thing is: SPS works just fine with irons.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

"Huh?" indeed.

The "SPS" I tried with my driver the other day was kind of a traditional/SP hybrid swing in that I wasn't un-cocking my left wrist entirely.

Today I bought a bucket of 60+ balls at my LGS' range. Started with 7i, following Kirk Junge's instructions to the letter. I wasn't getting a lot of distance, but I was hitting more consistently than usual. Switched up to my 5i and achieved similar results with a few more yards. Then up the the 4i. Wasn't as consistent with that, but I did manage improvement. (I've struggled mightily with the 4i using TS [traditional swing].)

On to the woods. 5W, to be exact. Not very successful. Pretty poor, in fact. Then on to the driver. That was a dismal failure. I may have been tiring out by the time I got to the 5w.

The driver thing bugged me, so I just tossed the mat out back and hit three balls using my hybrid swing. One was high and fade-y. Another was way low, but straight. Third was a ground ball. (Knew that was a misfire when I started my swing.) Re-did that one and, again, it was low, but it was straight. The three I hit well-ish were all better than all but one of the dozen+ I tried at the range. I think what was screwing me up at the range is the rubber tees on their mats are really high.

Thing is: SPS works just fine with irons.

Well, there's no doubt there's an internal struggle going on between your old swing and SPS, most of it is subliminal. But i know for sure I've hit irons with SPS and no problem.

 

[Flipit]

Well, there's no doubt there's an internal struggle going on between your old swing and SPS, most of it is subliminal. But i know for sure I've hit irons with SPS and no problem.

Yeah again tonight the irons are rocketing off the face. The net is tipping back every swing. I don’t hit wood into the net but I actually feel more confident in the woods with the SPS. Part of this could be my first instructor. He didn’t push SPS on me but he always wanted my hands further from my body, allah SPS.

 

[WLG1952]

I read something from some swing guru in Texas who's name escapes me, that if the golfer kept their elbows "some what" level through out the swing, their swing swing would be on plane.

At the time I read this, I had camera equipment to film my own swing. I pretty much confirmed what he said, based on my ball flights. I never ever again worried about which swing plane I was using. One less thing to think about.

Now my elbows were not perfectly level, but pretty close. I also looked at the pros elbows in their swings, and mine were pretty much the same as theirs.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

The golf instructors fear the SPS because they won't be needed. Just kidding....or not.

 

[Flipit]

The golf instructors fear the SPS because they won't be needed. Just kidding....or not.

Don’t think they have to worry about that. I don’t think it’s for everyone. For me it is feeling more and more natural and I haven’t taken a ton of swings.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Don’t think they have to worry about that. I don’t think it’s for everyone. For me it is feeling more and more natural and I haven’t taken a ton of swings.

It's far more simplified. The traditional swing is like teaching a beginner to play Beethoven when they have little time to play scales.

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Well, there's no doubt there's an internal struggle going on between your old swing and SPS, ...

I'm not certain what's going on. I didn't have that problem with the irons. It's going to take more time to work it out. Unfortunately, that's kind of limited atm.

The easiest way for me to work out such things is in the back yard. But I'm running out of balls I can pitch into the woods, since I'm now hitting them so far it's unlikely they'll be seen again for a long, long time--if ever. I need to set up a net or something I can hit into.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I'm not certain what's going on. I didn't have that problem with the irons. It's going to take more time to work it out. Unfortunately, that's kind of limited atm.

The easiest way for me to work out such things is in the back yard. But I'm running out of balls I can pitch into the woods, since I'm now hitting them so far it's unlikely they'll be seen again for a long, long time--if ever. I need to set up a net or something I can hit into.

There's probably some Raccoons running a soccer league with the golf balls

 

[Duffer Seamus]

Well, I just bought a 10 ft. by 15 ft. "used" golf net off Amazon for $60. Now all I have to do is come up with a way to rig it.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Well, I just bought a 10 ft. by 15 ft. "used" golf net off Amazon for $60. Now all I have to do is come up with a way to rig it.

PVC pipe, zip ties, and croquet-like wicket ground stakes? Lol. I've never done that but that's my initial thought.