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Single Plane Swing - Simplified Biomechanics?

GolfLivesMatter said:
PVC pipe, zip ties, and croquet-like wicket ground stakes? Lol. I've never done that but that's my initial thought.
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Assembly, disassembly, storage. Yech. I'm thinking either something more like a badminton/volleyball net support or just string a long line between two trees.

The badminton/volleyball thing would be easy. I already have the poles (5 ft. sections of antenna mast from back in my Ham Radio days I was going to send off to the scrapper's, anyway), pair of eye hooks at the tops, line between the two, dual guy lines at each end, four tent pegs. Inexpensive, strong, easy to set up, easy to take down, minimal storage space. Highly portable.
 
Experimenting more today with the SPS in sand. Hmmm. Will it work? Lol.

As an aside, I happened to look at the number of messages across the forums. Clubs, Balls, and Accessories has 2M messages. Swing Tips has about 64k. Thus folks post 32X more about equipment. I find that interesting because I wouldn't have expected such a huge disparity between the two topics.
 
Range day today.

After watching a pair of SPS videos specifically addressing the driver I've discovered the many flaws in how I was trying to do it the other day and, interestingly, why it was working for me during the impromptu back yard range session with the neighbor's son last week.

So, today it'll be a brief warmup with the 7i and the bulk of the session will be nailing down the driver--perhaps devoting some time to the longer irons if I succeed in that.
 
Ok, then: I'm going to rate that as an unqualified success :)

Was hitting the 7i dead straight 100 yds. plus once I warmed up. Switched to the driver. Once I started getting a good feel for it I was hitting pretty good ±200 yd. drives, mostly right down the middle, fairly repeatably. A few draws and fades. No hooks, slices, or ground balls. Switched to the 4i. Ironed that out a bit. Back to the driver. Again: Fairly repeatable ±200 yd. drives right down the middle. Gave my 54° wedge a try with full swings. That was challenging. Going to need a lot more work there. Back to the driver. Good performance again, but starting to tire. Back to the 54° wedge for a break. Better, but still not there. Back to the driver...

... and that's when it all went to pieces.

The last dozen or better balls I could not hit well, or even half well, with the driver to save my soul. I think that, out of the last dozen or so tries, I got one half-way decent drive--and that not with much height or distance. The rest were low slices and hooks, ground balls, banging them off the lane divider... one I think I launched into outer space, because I've no idea where that one even went. I finally just banged the last five balls out there in any old fashion, just to have them gone. (I wish now I'd gone back to the 7i instead of wasting them.)

No more 68-ball buckets for me. It's too much in one go.

I'll be back out there in a few days to give it another go. See if I can nail this down before I play again.
 
MaybeDuffer said:
Ok, then: I'm going to rate that as an unqualified success :)

Was hitting the 7i dead straight 100 yds. plus once I warmed up. Switched to the driver. Once I started getting a good feel for it I was hitting pretty good ±200 yd. drives, mostly right down the middle, fairly repeatably. A few draws and fades. No hooks, slices, or ground balls. Switched to the 4i. Ironed that out a bit. Back to the driver. Again: Fairly repeatable ±200 yd. drives right down the middle. Gave my 54° wedge a try with full swings. That was challenging. Going to need a lot more work there. Back to the driver. Good performance again, but starting to tire. Back to the 54° wedge for a break. Better, but still not there. Back to the driver...

... and that's when it all went to pieces.

The last dozen or better balls I could not hit well, or even half well, with the driver to save my soul. I think that, out of the last dozen or so tries, I got one half-way decent drive--and that not with much height or distance. The rest were low slices and hooks, ground balls, banging them off the lane divider... one I think I launched into outer space, because I've no idea where that one even went. I finally just banged the last five balls out there in any old fashion, just to have them gone. (I wish now I'd gone back to the 7i instead of wasting them.)

No more 68-ball buckets for me. It's too much in one go.

I'll be back out there in a few days to give it another go. See if I can nail this down before I play again.
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I used to be a two large (100 balls) bucket per session guy. I would bang away until the cows came home. And, yes, I started to experience what you were experiencing about 1/3 of the way through the second bucket.

When I told my instructor about my routine she said "Nope". I asked why and she told me that she would almost guarantee that I was just out there banging balls with no purpose (as to actual practice). The once I would start to get tired I would try to "fix my swing". She said, at that point, not only am I not being productive but I'm actually moving backward because now I'm erasing the groove and the swing that I went to there to practice to begin with. So she told me from now on that I can only hit a small bucket (about 35 balls) for each session and to make sure that every shot that I'm taking has a purpose. She doesn't care what the purpose is but just make sure that the swing means something. Want to try and hit a fade? O.K. do that. Low stinger? O.K. try that. But don't ever just go out and bang balls. She also told me no more than 3 clubs per session. If I still want to practice after my balls are gone? The putting and chipping green is right over there. 👉
 
My first 27 holes of SP is complete. It’s a bit of a learning experience, and adjustment. However if I continue I will set a new PB in the next 10 days, maybe tomorrow. Felt like I was really dialing things in the last few holes. Driver was the biggest struggle, however, once I moved it back a bit it was money. Looking forward to tomorrow on the course.
 
robrandalgz said:
She also told me no more than 3 clubs per session. If I still want to practice after my balls are gone? The putting and chipping green is right over there. 👉
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Yeah, going forward it'll be the 50-ball (I think they are) buckets, and some time on the chipping/putting greens. The"three clubs" thing makes sense, too.
 
Well my first week is in the books. Some issues to resolve but that’s to be expected. Good news is my scores were pretty good for me. Did some more research on SPS and it helped big time. I’ll be practicing throughout the day with my irons and chipping.
 
The video seems to make complete sense. I may try it in the future if my current setup fails me. In the meantime, I’ll enjoy following your journey!
 
Now I’m really gluten for punishment. Using the swing ball between my arms and practicing. Good news is, it works. Bad news is it’s a workout squeezing that ball and keeping it there through the swing.
. :ROFLMAO:
 
I believe you can pretty safely put me in the "converted" column.

Hit the range again today and, while I did hit some stinkers, and struggled a bit with fades on the driver, overall it was a definite success. Hit more balls, better, than I ever have before. And I'm starting to get my distance back as I become more accustomed to SPS. (Not that my distance was earth-shattering before :).)

I was actually a bit nervous about going to the range today, because, so many times in my golf journey I've thought I'd found something that improved my ball-hitting only to be unable to replicate it. Today I not only replicated my success of two days ago, but realized improvement.
 
Yesterday's range session was mostly a fail. Perhaps it was one of those "some days you just can't fire to save your soul" days, but I have my suspicions on a couple of points:

1. I think no more Orange Whip for me. I believe I'm detecting a pattern where, whenever I work out with the OW before a range session or a game, my ball-hitting goes right in the crapper.
2. I suspect I've been overly-hinging my lead wrist down during address. Then, when I swing, my wrist hinges back up to a more natural position, causing me to either hit the ball thin--so thin with the driver I sometimes bounce it off the ground in front of the tee, drive the tee into the ground, or miss the ball entirely (rare, but it's happened). I was also experiencing trouble consistently "finding the bottom" on swings with my irons.

When I had that terrific success a couple weeks ago, after a game during which I drove pretty consistently poorly, I'd written the swing I'd tried was kind of halfway between traditional and SPS. What I meant by that is I hadn't been hinging my wrist as far down as it appeared one is supposed to from watching the video tutorials. Maybe I was mistaken?

Next time I'm going for a SPS that feels more natural and comfortable to me, rather than what it looks like I'm "supposed" to do.
 
MaybeDuffer...I feel you on the have a great session but being unable to duplicate it. I've had good days at the range but never 2 in a row :(

Yesterday I grabbed a medium bucket...around 75 balls....1st 60 where the worst 60 balls ever hit. I mean really bad...couldn't get higher than a few feet off the ground and horrible slice and shanks. Tried PW, 9, 7, and 8. All sucked. Then something amazing happened...my swing didn't feel awkward or unnatural all of sudden. It felt comfortable and effortless. Bam, 9 iron blasted way high and to the 3rd pole. One right after another till the bucket was empty.

I told the owner what happened and he said he wanted to see and I grabbed a small 25 ball bucket. 1st 3 weren't great but after that, super solid contact and again 9 iron to the 3rd pole and then a bit past the pole. The guy watching asked what club and I told him 9 iron. He said I was hitting it really good.

Finished that bucket and grabbed another small bucket. Same result. Not all were straight at target but no slices nor hooks. Did push some offline to the right and pulled some offline to the left but no curveballs. I just want that solid contact most of the time and i'll work on hitting it straighter latter.

Going after work today to hit a bucket and see if I can replicate the feeling and the contact. I'll be over the moon if for the first time I can follow up a good day with a 2nd good day. I'll be soooo bummed if I suck again.

I will try to grab some video and will post a link if I am hitting well. Will also post a link again to my 1st couple range sessions a couple of months ago to compare...if I can duplicate it
 
The range is closed until Friday. Hopefully i'll still be able to hit it good then.
 
Interesting comments. The one about hitting too many balls on the range which starts to unwind improvement is a good observation. I don't think we realize how much conditioning is needed to continually hit balls well, and we don't realize that we're making bad swing adjustments on the fly simply due to fatigue.

I thought I might sum-up what I've found with SPS vs. my S&T swing considering I started this thread!!

I have tried SPS and found I am uncomfortable with arm extension at address. I can do it, and hit the ball fine, but I think over all the years my brain much prefers my "standard" setup. S&T was a far easier to transition many years ago because it's basically the same setup except for weight distribution. I feel in S&T that I'm simply swinging around myself and keeping the bottom of the arc constant which is 80% of the battle. For me, no matter how much I try, extended arms at address just isn't in my DNA. That said, I do see plenty of folks who naturally like to reach out to the ball so in their case they just need to hone the SPS swing.

In either S&T or SPS the weight distribution is probably the hardest to master. If I'm looking for a WD of 60-70% on my left side, the width of my stance must be sufficient to achieve the distribution. I often find my stance gets a little narrow when I'm trying to "hit well" because my brain thinks it's a more controlled position. But as the stance narrows it's easy to subliminally shift weight to the middle or "middle-right" upon takeaway, so there's a delicate balance in stance width. If I'm going to error on WD, I tend to error in the opposite direction of how I tend to drift, meaning if I tend to drift to the middle, I will put more weight on my left side.

Maintaining constant WD from address to the top is not as easy as it sounds, at least not for me. But without that regimen, either swing becomes a weirdo hybrid swing. Plus, fatigue can set-in on the range because my brain starts to wear-down due to the required constant concentration. The good news is I only need to hit 14 drives and around 30-35 or so iron shots on the course. Plus, on the course I can rest in between shots and I have ample time to assess WD during my setup routine. The most challenging WD assessment is on uphill and downhill lies.

SPS with shorter Irons. I think it would take a long time to get used to arm extension address on a PW. It just doesn't look right to me. Again, I can hit the ball using SPS, but I don't see any major improvement in terms of distance or direction. Therefore, I tend to think SPS is more appropriate for the driver and maybe down to #2-4 hybrids, but it starts to feel odder as the number on the club increases, at least for me. As stated, the SPS setup may not bother other folks whatsoever because they're naturally comfortable reaching out with higher hands at address. Plus, I'm not sure about employing SPS for Driver and say 3W, then a "traditional" swing for the irons. I think that would be too confusing to have two swings and I bet the two swings might marry each other and birth a weird hybrid offspring.

I've found over the years that I often chased changes that really weren't needed because the things I was doing wrong were actually simple fundamentals that would ruin any swing type. No matter the swing, the initiation of the down swing with the lower body is critical to create a "whip action" or club head speed, and to put the club on the correct path. I would say 90% of the golfers I play with would dramatically improve if they could engage their lower body, even a little bit on the down swing because their first move is right-shoulder push OTT. The other swing fault I see, and I can get into this very quickly myself, is arming the club to the top without sufficient shoulder turn. That is THE MOST deadly fault for me. In that position my hips have a giant head-start on the down swing, right along with my shoulders, so my body is too far ahead of the club and thus everything STOPS to wait for the club to flip-through. I find this most occurs when paranoid about a certain shot, fatigued, or not sufficiently stretched before play.

IMO one has to feel 100% mentally and physically comfortable at address AND during the takeaway or it's not the right swing for them. S&T actually feels like cheating sometimes ONLY IF my fundamentals are solid.
 
Interesting comments, @GolfLivesMatter. I, too, felt SPS extension awkward and uncomfortable at first. In fact: I briefly experimented with it and could not make it work for me. I expect that was part of the reason why. It now feels natural to me with the irons--perhaps because the additional extension doesn't seem all that much. Plus I'm finding the bottom of my swing much more consistently with SPS than I ever did with TS.

I'm still wrestling with it with driver and woods, but I think I'm getting there. I do know that, even though SPS with the driver still feels a bit foreign, I'm still hitting better, more consistently, than I ever was with TS.

Since I couldn't snag us a tee time today, I'm going to practice a bit more in the backyard.

I think I'm going to get my net set up today, so I can stop losing balls to the woods :)
 
MaybeDuffer said:
Interesting comments, @GolfLivesMatter. I, too, felt SPS extension awkward and uncomfortable at first. In fact: I briefly experimented with it and could not make it work for me. I expect that was part of the reason why. It now feels natural to me with the irons--perhaps because the additional extension doesn't seem all that much. Plus I'm finding the bottom of my swing much more consistently with SPS than I ever did with TS.

I'm still wrestling with it with driver and woods, but I think I'm getting there. I do know that, even though SPS with the driver still feels a bit foreign, I'm still hitting better, more consistently, than I ever was with TS.

Since I couldn't snag us a tee time today, I'm going to practice a bit more in the backyard.

I think I'm going to get my net set up today, so I can stop losing balls to the woods :)
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Thanks, and like I said the SPS may well feel very comfortable for many folks, even if transitioning from a TS. I have simply found that the basics, or lack thereof, is often the reason for faults. Every swing, at least to achieve compression and decent swing speed requires basic sequencing.

If SPS does find the bottom of the swing then that's a huge improvement. Think of how easy sand shots would be if we all knew where the bottom of our swing is located? Move the bottom forward for longer sand shots and back for shorter shots. Sand shots are now much simpler by thinking about the bottom of the swing arc and not drifting. Same with chips & pitches. My S&T swing achieves the same consistent swing arc provided I don't drift right or left, and I don't arm the club to the top, and I initiate the DS with my lower body. If those pesky faults stay away, my 7 iron distance increases by 15 yards to almost 170. That's more than enough distance if I'm not playing stupid long tee boxes.
 
GLM: I couldn't agree more about the necessity for having good fundamentals (of course). The lower body "leading" in the downswing so as to insure correct body/arm synch is something I also brought up as it is an obstacle I can't seem to overcome. Your second fundamental (i.e. enough hip turn in the backswing) is something I hadn't thought of but makes perfect sense.

I would just say this: To me, the key "advantage" of the SPS is contact. Yes, as S&T people point out, consistent low point is crucial. But equally crucial is correct alignment of the head at impact. You can't have a good golf shot without both of those things occurring. The SPS employs a non-rotational trail hand which makes timing (in theory) a non-issue. So SPS, first objective is contact, low-point control, uhhh, not so fast. S&T, first objective is low-point control, but like every other rotational swing good head alignment and contact is more difficult to attain. That said, the two have many fundamentals in common: Backswing, lateral bump forward, hips turn, arms whip through.

As I say, when I succeed, SPS gives me cleaner shots with more distance than any other method. Unfortunately, most of the time it's a frustrating series of thin, topped and sliced horror shows.
 
I have tried SPS in the past, perusing videos from Steve Graves e.t.c. but never was much of a fan of it. Lately, however, I got curious about Kirk Junge's methods and videos and it is presented in a completely different manner. I will say, I got excellent results so far. Like anything, changes are often short lived. Perhaps, this time will be different. The one thing I took from it was continuing to rotate past impact and into follow through. Completely eliminates any wrist flipping, gives sense of power. At least for me.
 
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nlk10010 said:
GLM: I couldn't agree more about the necessity for having good fundamentals (of course). The lower body "leading" in the downswing so as to insure correct body/arm synch is something I also brought up as it is an obstacle I can't seem to overcome. Your second fundamental (i.e. enough hip turn in the backswing) is something I hadn't thought of but makes perfect sense.

I would just say this: To me, the key "advantage" of the SPS is contact. Yes, as S&T people point out, consistent low point is crucial. But equally crucial is correct alignment of the head at impact. You can't have a good golf shot without both of those things occurring. The SPS employs a non-rotational trail hand which makes timing (in theory) a non-issue. So SPS, first objective is contact, low-point control, uhhh, not so fast. S&T, first objective is low-point control, but like every other rotational swing good head alignment and contact is more difficult to attain. That said, the two have many fundamentals in common: Backswing, lateral bump forward, hips turn, arms whip through.

As I say, when I succeed, SPS gives me cleaner shots with more distance than any other method. Unfortunately, most of the time it's a frustrating series of thin, topped and sliced horror shows.
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For me, getting the stated fundamentals decently correct is around 90% of the battle. In my S&T I keep my head as the center of the swing because obviously as my head moves in any direction so does the bottom of my swing arc. Also, I really don't have much variability in my swing if the fundamentals are correct. I think when I get off track it's because I think "I've got this now" and get lazy or overly confident to think I can short cut the fundamentals.

It's interesting that you hit better with the SPS but also find a large degree of negative variability. Do you think you're doing SPS when you're hitting well, then not SPS, or could there be some other adjustments that flick on and off like a light switch?
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
I think when I get off track it's because I think "I've got this now" and get lazy or overly confident to think I can short cut the fundamentals.
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In my case it's not "think," I know that's what happens. But, for me, SPS works better in part because there are fewer variables, so it's easier for me to determine what I'm getting wrong and correct it.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
-snip-

It's interesting that you hit better with the SPS but also find a large degree of negative variability. Do you think you're doing SPS when you're hitting well, then not SPS, or could there be some other adjustments that flick on and off like a light switch?
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To put it rather inelegantly, I have no f***ing clue why it is that I can be going along hitting the ball well and then suddenly have everything go to s**t. It's one of the great mysteries of life. Really. It's like I've made a mockery of that old NA saying: "The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result". Well, with golf, you DO get a different result. Of course the reason the result is different is that I'm NOT doing the same thing, no matter how much I think I am. That's one of the main reasons golf is so hard.

To answer your question directly: Todd Graves would say, of course, that if you're not hitting it well then you CAN'T be doing SPS. However, to be less tautological, I think SPS is extremely sensitive to departures from the model. Don't get your trail arm aligned with the clubshaft at setup, try to rotate your trail arm on the backswing, stand too close or too far (especially the latter, I tend to exaggerate that) from the ball, swing too much off-plane, everything breaks down. That's where the variability comes from. Jim McLean said it himself: In theory the idea of keeping a single plane on the back and downswing is great, but he doesn't teach it because it's simply too difficult. Meaning, most people will fail at doing it correctly much more often than not. I think the implication is that with other models, or approaches, you can be "off" a bit with one aspect or another and still get a halfway decent shot off. With SPS not so much. At least that's how it works for me. That, in fact, is what drew me to SPS. I'm an "all or nothing" type personality, if I can't do something "right" I won't do it at all, and I won't accept anything less than, well, you get the idea.....my research, ballroom, driving, golf. Frankly, I'll never be happy because I'll never reach my goal, and I LOVE it that way. :)
 
I got to hit a medium bucket today. 1st 10 kinda sucked as I got warmed up. After that I got the same solid contact from Tuesday. Not every shot was great but the bad shots aren't horrible anymore.
Just watched some of the raw video and boy do I have a lot of work to do. Getting good contact but left arm breaking 45*. Looks horrible. Need to clean that up. Only thing I can figure is that all the tennis I play helps with putting the bat on the ball. Well, at least i know how much work and what to work on. Video helps a heap.

Won't be able to hit balls for a few days. Have a tennis match at 10 am and then another at 2pm tomorrow. Means Sunday I'll be too sore to hit golf balls LOL
 
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nlk10010 said:
To put it rather inelegantly, I have no f***ing clue why it is that I can be going along hitting the ball well and then suddenly have everything go to s**t. It's one of the great mysteries of life. Really. It's like I've made a mockery of that old NA saying: "The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result". Well, with golf, you DO get a different result. Of course the reason the result is different is that I'm NOT doing the same thing, no matter how much I think I am. That's one of the main reasons golf is so hard.

To answer your question directly: Todd Graves would say, of course, that if you're not hitting it well then you CAN'T be doing SPS. However, to be less tautological, I think SPS is extremely sensitive to departures from the model. Don't get your trail arm aligned with the clubshaft at setup, try to rotate your trail arm on the backswing, stand too close or too far (especially the latter, I tend to exaggerate that) from the ball, swing too much off-plane, everything breaks down. That's where the variability comes from. Jim McLean said it himself: In theory the idea of keeping a single plane on the back and downswing is great, but he doesn't teach it because it's simply too difficult. Meaning, most people will fail at doing it correctly much more often than not. I think the implication is that with other models, or approaches, you can be "off" a bit with one aspect or another and still get a halfway decent shot off. With SPS not so much. At least that's how it works for me. That, in fact, is what drew me to SPS. I'm an "all or nothing" type personality, if I can't do something "right" I won't do it at all, and I won't accept anything less than, well, you get the idea.....my research, ballroom, driving, golf. Frankly, I'll never be happy because I'll never reach my goal, and I LOVE it that way. :)
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Interesting. McLean stated what I couldn't articulate about the difficulty of a SPS in terms of plane. If I think of all the great players who did not employ the SPS, even today, I tend to ask myself "is the SPS unique to certain individuals, but not generally with the masses?". Moe Norman was a great ball striker, but how many majors did he win? I'm certainly not picking on Moe's ability, but I'm more curious if he, and some others intrinsically swung that way from "day one". This is why the S&T for me was a much easier transition. Same swing but more loaded on the left. That's probably an over-simplification but I see a lot of pro's who I believe employ varying degrees of S&T.

Plus, if the impact position is reasonably similar in both swings, then it's more about the process of getting into impact position than the final position itself, if that makes sense. As I've stated before, a LOT of faults occur with arm-swing backswings which causes a disconnect on the downswing, and lack of lower-body engagement on the downswing. I see those as "must haves" in any swing. I have found that even a slight lower body initiated downswing is MILES ahead of a swing without. Path is better, distance increases, directional stability is better, etc.

I think variability will creep in more on the SPS vs. S&T because I can't "see" the plane for the SPS. I guess with enough practice I could get it down, but for me the paranoia of not knowing causes variability. On my S&T swing I simply ensure my takeaway to mid point shows a toe-up position, much like you see the pro's on TV who take it halfway back, check, then hit. The hardest part is to NOT get lazy on the backswing, and, initiate the downswing with the lower body. If I can get past those two hurdles the difference in strokes is around 5-8 better assuming decent putting.
 
GLM: A few things. First, as I've said, I need to initiate (or think I'm initiating) my downswing with my body as well. My swing doesn't seem to work any other way. HOWEVER, there are quite a few well-respected teachers who teach "arm swings" (a focus on the arms in the downswing, even if it is initiated by the hips). Malaska, Toski, Flick, Rinker, Hardy, De La Torre, even Nicklaus emphasized keeping his back to the target as he swung. That works for some. Second, you are absolutely correct, McLean talks about the impact position as an end and goes through the various ways to get there; e.g. over-under (steep then flatten), under-over (flat then steepen), single-plane. Third, the very thing you like about S&T is what I don't like about it (or any swing save the SP variants); to make the face align properly at impact you are relying on "auto-pilot", the idea that the face WILL align itself automatically if you keep the arms loose and swing through (I seem to recall a post on "the other Board" talking about Dr. Sasho MacKenzie and passively squaring the clubface, Paul Wilson espouses this as well). You HAVE to rotate the trail arm because you can't keep the face square to the path and swing back very far. I don't trust it, although obviously it works fine for most people, to one degree or another. With SP yes, you need to find the plane, but if you do you are almost locked in to a square clubface at impact. You don't rotate the trail arm (though you do break the wrist). Unfortunately I can't get a remotely consistent low point with it.
 
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