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Skins Game Unfair?

GolfLivesMatter

GolfLivesMatter

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Does it make sense to play off a low capper's handicap in a skins game? For example, assume a player has a PH of 13 is playing against another with a PH of 5. Is it fair for the higher capper to get 8 strokes, or play off the low capper, or should they play to their PH's?
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
Does it make sense to play off a low capper's handicap in a skins game? For example, assume a player has a PH of 13 is playing against another with a PH of 5. Is it fair for the higher capper to get 8 strokes, or play off the low capper, or should they play to their PH's?
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I would think in this example you should play off of low handicap and high HC would get 8. If it is just two people though it doesn't really matter though. You could give the higher handicap an extra shot 5 holes and the higher HC 13. They would be the same on the hardest 9-13 hardest. Same result at the end of the day.
 
8 strokes to the high capper is fair, otherwise on the 5 hardest holes, the high capper is not getting any benefit
 
TXseve said:
8 strokes to the high capper is fair, otherwise on the 5 hardest holes, the high capper is not getting any benefit
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One argument I heard was the lower capper has an advantage on the hardest holes.
 
I think playing off the low is the better way to do it, plus it's just less dots on the card to deal with. My main issue with everyone playing off their own handicaps is that you get into giving strokes on all the par 3s, rather than on the tough par 4s, and tough par 5s. Giving strokes on par 3s is infuriating lol.

I've done it both ways and I'm not sure it really makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. Depending on the course and where the strokes fall a shrewd player could try and push for one or the other.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I think playing off the low is the better way to do it, plus it's just less dots on the card to deal with. My main issue with everyone playing off their own handicaps is that you get into giving strokes on all the par 3s, rather than on the tough par 4s, and tough par 5s. Giving strokes on par 3s is infuriating lol.

I've done it both ways and I'm not sure it really makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. Depending on the course and where the strokes fall a shrewd player could try and push for one or the other.
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You could agree that play it off of lower HC and skip par 3s. Make it easy. But agree it doesn't really make a difference in long run.
 
Joshnoble01 said:
You could agree that play it off of lower HC and skip par 3s. Make it easy. But agree it doesn't really make a difference in long run.
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No strokes on par 3's was one of the discussions too. And the other was to award a skin to the person who won the prior hole using their stroke(s) only if they make a gross bogey or better on the following hole. Lol...I've now read-up on this and there's all kinds of arguments. Maybe that's why most play low net front, back and total to avoid the arguments.
 
The other thing I've read is playing skins is counter-productive to posting scores because if someone is out of a hole they wander off and take a 7.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
No strokes on par 3's was one of the discussions too. And the other was to award a skin to the person who won the prior hole using their stroke(s) only if they make a gross bogey or better on the following hole. Lol...I've now read-up on this and there's all kinds of arguments. Maybe that's why most play low net front, back and total to avoid the arguments.
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I pretty much only play skins with my dad and he makes me give him a stroke on every hole but even he won't take one on par 3s.

But there totally are lot's of arguments. I think unless the differential is over 18 then you just skip the par 3s and play the net difference.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
The other thing I've read is playing skins is counter-productive to posting scores because if someone is out of a hole they wander off and take a 7.
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A lot of my skins rounds don't get posted. Sometimes you are legit not trying to make the lowest score possible, just making sure you don't make a mistake.
 
GolfLivesMatter said:
One argument I heard was the lower capper has an advantage on the hardest holes.
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Yeah, even if you accept that assumption, it's only half the story. Because the higher capper would get a stroke advantage on five of the easier holes for them to score well.
 
If I'm a 17 and you are an 18....Where should you get your shot? On the easiest hole or the toughest? Apply that to your example.
 
When playing skins, you’ve got to negotiate! Giving up 8 strokes on skins is far more impactful then giving on 8 on total score.


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Generally speaking, the higher handicap player has a statistical advantage over the low handicap player in these types of games. One of the main reasons is the differences in consistency and spread of likely scores. This is most easily illustrated with a population of players.

Let's say you have 50 players in a net score tournament. For the purposes of this illustration we'll say half are 30 handicap players and the other half are scratch. The scratch players are by definition much more consistent players. Even with 25 scratch players the chances of even one shooting 10 under their handicap are slim to none. The chances of one of those 30 handicap players doing so is pretty reasonable. Thus the chances of one of the scratch players winning the net score tournament are very small. The chance of one of the high handicap players is very large.

This is one reason why tournaments generally set up flights.
 
My regular skins game evens out the advantage the higher caps inherently have, by paying out gross birdies/eagles.

It works for us.
 
leftshot said:
Generally speaking, the higher handicap player has a statistical advantage over the low handicap player in these types of games. One of the main reasons is the differences in consistency and spread of likely scores. This is most easily illustrated with a population of players.

Let's say you have 50 players in a net score tournament. For the purposes of this illustration we'll say half are 30 handicap players and the other half are scratch. The scratch players are by definition much more consistent players. Even with 25 scratch players the chances of even one shooting 10 under their handicap are slim to none. The chances of one of those 30 handicap players doing so is pretty reasonable. Thus the chances of one of the scratch players winning the net score tournament are very small. The chance of one of the high handicap players is very large.

This is one reason why tournaments generally set up flights.
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In a law of large numbers this is true but in a skins game if an 13 and a 5 play 10 matches the 5 is likely to win more often because they will play to their handicap more often.

That said in skins games with 3 or 4 golfers I think playing to 80% of the handicap can make some sense it can be tough being in a skins game and giving up a bunch of strokes when players can ding and dong.
 
Negotiations... the 80% rule helps...

In a regular group, strokes are given and taken as all know what can happen, it should all be about having a fairly level playing field, who's gonna keep throwing themselves into games they have no chance in?? One group i played with, the winners had to buy drinks, funny how many drinks got bought on the course as end of round credits... becoming the strategic take-out move for some. I found it best to store those drinks, when no one was looking!

In larger groups its a much bigger crap shoot, most players will easily throw in a minor amount for entry to the game, $5-20, while the gamblers really liked to say $10 or $20 skins, each player's payout per skin... now that can get into your pocket!
 
We play a combo skins/stableford setup on weekends. For skins, we do it so that everyone gets their strokes (at something like 80%, we've tweaked it a few times). But we also play it so that a net score will never beat a gross score for a skin.

For matches within the foursome, we play off the low, and I think that works out the best. Because otherwise if everyone is popping on the hole with the biggest difference between high/low caps, you end up with a lot more halves and the low cap winning those holes.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I think playing off the low is the better way to do it, plus it's just less dots on the card to deal with. My main issue with everyone playing off their own handicaps is that you get into giving strokes on all the par 3s, rather than on the tough par 4s, and tough par 5s. Giving strokes on par 3s is infuriating lol.

I've done it both ways and I'm not sure it really makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. Depending on the course and where the strokes fall a shrewd player could try and push for one or the other.
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I definitely agree with your take on the par 3s. Never fun having to make a shot on a PW hole.
 
Playing off the low man is the way to go.
 
For skins games, gross score on a hole prevails and net scores are given a half shot.
 
Joshnoble01 said:
Toughest.
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Technically, you should get a stroke on the hole that you most need a bump in order to halve the hole. Hole handicaps should not be determined by difficulty.
 
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