razaar
Well-known member
I couldn't let this go without a comment. I have no idea why Edwin choose the swing tag "right sided swing" because he teaches left side control with the right side complementing the left side movements.
Swing Thoughts
I couldn't let this go without a comment. I have no idea why Edwin choose the swing tag "right sided swing" because he teaches left side control with the right side complementing the left side movements.
CG- here are some facts to help anyone make up their own mind ———
The left side of the human ( righty in this case) controls right side motion and more than 80% of it is dedicated to that purpose. If this is the case why would we consider controlling the shaft with the left side. Old myths and misinformation don't easily fade away .
Our hands don’t possess the necessary power to propel any object very far, but they definitely do control the entire action as the goat does in the attached pic. No intent to release, hit or throw from the top . His hands have not rolled over. It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face and provides the power!
The left side of the human ( righty in this case) controls right side motion and more than 80% of it is dedicated to that purpose. If this is the case why would we consider controlling the shaft with the left side. Old myths and misinformation don't easily fade away .
Our hands don’t possess the necessary power to propel any object very far, but they definitely do control the entire action as the goat does in the attached pic. No intent to release, hit or throw from the top . His hands have not rolled over. It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face and provides the power!
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razaar
Well-known member
T
This made me smile thinking about the struggles of learning the "drive hold" swing (drive with the forearms and hold the release). At one stage I had several swing thoughts within a one second time frame. I was always one to learn the hard way.
Razaar,
I am glad to hear from an Aussie. Australia has the distinction of of having the first and ONLY person on this Planet who actually figured out the golf swing- the brilliant Gerry Hogan. I was extremely fortunate to have spent many years being taught by him.
As they say in Australia- you are playing off a 4.6 so you have worked hard and excelled at this game . You understand what I have posted . I am certainly not of the normal instruction!
Thanks fir your reply. Hope to hear from you again.
Chow
I am glad to hear from an Aussie. Australia has the distinction of of having the first and ONLY person on this Planet who actually figured out the golf swing- the brilliant Gerry Hogan. I was extremely fortunate to have spent many years being taught by him.
As they say in Australia- you are playing off a 4.6 so you have worked hard and excelled at this game . You understand what I have posted . I am certainly not of the normal instruction!
Thanks fir your reply. Hope to hear from you again.
Chow
razaar
Well-known member
Gerry lives at the Sunshine Coast (I think). He was involved in a graphite shaft design that had some success about a decade ago. I have his book in my library and relied on it alot when I returned to playing golf in the mid 1990's. His swing concepts were related to swing elements associated with the long drive tours. I believe one of the models in his book was a long driving champion as well as young John Senden who was apprentice to Ian Triggs.
I learnt the drive hold swing from Kelvin Miyahira's Articles which were also based on long driving tour champions and on Tiger Woods golf swing. At the time I was playing regularly with Cam Smith when he was a member of our National squad. Cam and his Dad Des sort of adopted me
. So I had a pretty decent role model to copy.His publication on the golf swing was very different to popular golf instruction at the time and definately a better guide than the simple swing theories of popular golf instruction.
Take care.
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Matthew
Well-known member
I try my best to keep out any thoughts out of my head once I get over the ball, practice swings though are a different animal. I'm looking for a feel.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Not sure where I saw it, but what I have found something that has been repeatable for me is once I step into the area that I am ready to strike the ball the whole thing becomes execution to target area. Can't really state there are any other thoughts much at all except focusing on "where" I plan to get the ball to land. Often thinking and overthinking usually cause issues in the golf swing.
Id say that its not realistic to expect to completely eliminate swing thoughts. Im a wannabe Zen master and I cant completely eliminate swing thoughts and if I cant do it, I dont expect anyone else to.
IMO, it would be better to just have a simple, clear, positive swing thought. My personal thought is, " swing easy" or, "complete your backswing". Nothing crazy or too complicated but something that is simple.
Carolina Golfer
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I think the lower body must engage in the down swing. But, if you talk to said, lower body parts, it doesn't work :-(
Sure you can, just like a baseball players takes a step towards the pitcher to swing. It may be subconsciously or a reaction to fully engage lower body from back swing.
I see instructors all the time tell golfers to practice taking a step towards the target from a narrow stance to get people used to weight shift.
Carolina Golfer
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Right. But, why is it so easy (with no intention) in baseball? I suspect, we could drill our juniors to death and maybe in their 20's, it will be natural, lol.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
Also another thing to realize is there are many different levels as well as number of thoughts. I minimize those as much as possible and target focus as I mentioned before which works for me, but golfers are unique and what works for one may not work for another.
I have a golfing buddy that constantly has swing thoughts about "doing this or that" which he saw or heard someone tell him would work for his game. I have not seen one thing really help him when it comes to all those various thoughts. Each league game we play I will hear him say, "I saw something this week and I think it will change my game."
My main swing thought: “I really thought I was going to hit a good shot there.”
R,
Are the hips or legs of a baseball hitter responsible for locating and directing the bat to contact a baseball coming at you at high speeds that requires maybe less than 2/10 seconds for the player to make a decision ?
Does a pitcher make the baseball curve to a very small specific location with his legs or hips ?
Does the golfer control the shaft / clubface with his legs, hips , shoulders ? Are the hips, legs, shoulders capable of rotating the club face more than 180 degrees from a right palm upward / skyward position to a right palm down position ?
The human brain can only sort out and perform one (1) task in the 2/10 seconds of time alloted for the golf DS or any action for that matter that occurs in such a fleeting moment of time.
Are the hips or legs of a baseball hitter responsible for locating and directing the bat to contact a baseball coming at you at high speeds that requires maybe less than 2/10 seconds for the player to make a decision ?
Does a pitcher make the baseball curve to a very small specific location with his legs or hips ?
Does the golfer control the shaft / clubface with his legs, hips , shoulders ? Are the hips, legs, shoulders capable of rotating the club face more than 180 degrees from a right palm upward / skyward position to a right palm down position ?
The human brain can only sort out and perform one (1) task in the 2/10 seconds of time alloted for the golf DS or any action for that matter that occurs in such a fleeting moment of time.
Luchnia
You will never conquer golf.
It would seem there are a number of arguments for, and against, this type of theory.
L,
I understand what you are saying . Millions of players are the same. They hear or read this and that , as I did , for years and nothing ever improves their game, but I would say this —-
golfers swings are definitely unique, but ALL normal humans are if the same genetic makeup . Our joints are all p
located the same just as our muscle , tendons and ligaments are - and more that 40% of all humans brain are dedicated to it’s extremities- AKA - it’s DOMINANT HANDS and more than 80 % of the left side of it’s brain is used to control right side motion ( using a rightie as an example ) . Their is a direct connection between our brain and it’s dominant hand . You can’t hide your hand from your brain . It will always be aware of its position in space. If that is factual would it not be the main focus of the DS ? The brain will not know wher the hips or legs will be in 2/10 second BC none ( 0 % ) of the brain is dedicated to either of them . They only perform at the instructions of their boss - the hands. Our hands take their orders / instruction from its brain. The hands only carry out those orders. Just like they do thousands of times in our daily life bc they are embedded in our subconscious mind. We pay them no attention.
I understand what you are saying . Millions of players are the same. They hear or read this and that , as I did , for years and nothing ever improves their game, but I would say this —-
golfers swings are definitely unique, but ALL normal humans are if the same genetic makeup . Our joints are all p
located the same just as our muscle , tendons and ligaments are - and more that 40% of all humans brain are dedicated to it’s extremities- AKA - it’s DOMINANT HANDS and more than 80 % of the left side of it’s brain is used to control right side motion ( using a rightie as an example ) . Their is a direct connection between our brain and it’s dominant hand . You can’t hide your hand from your brain . It will always be aware of its position in space. If that is factual would it not be the main focus of the DS ? The brain will not know wher the hips or legs will be in 2/10 second BC none ( 0 % ) of the brain is dedicated to either of them . They only perform at the instructions of their boss - the hands. Our hands take their orders / instruction from its brain. The hands only carry out those orders. Just like they do thousands of times in our daily life bc they are embedded in our subconscious mind. We pay them no attention.
L,
I try to avoid theory . Their is more than enough of that going around in golf instruction without me adding to it . I just post what I consider to be factual. it is always the players right to disagree or agree. You can certainly research for yourself and make up your own mind . I hope you do .
thanks fir your reply !
I try to avoid theory . Their is more than enough of that going around in golf instruction without me adding to it . I just post what I consider to be factual. it is always the players right to disagree or agree. You can certainly research for yourself and make up your own mind . I hope you do .
thanks fir your reply !
Carolina Golfer
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How true regarding the magical tip. But, I wish I can just look at the target and go, on a full swing. It does work on shorter shots where feel is important. My full swing gets worse without swing throughts.
CG,
You are correct. You only have time for one thought in 2/10 seconds during the DS - and that must be preprogrammed before you lift the shaft back to form your lever. The trick is to nail down what part of the body is responsible for that CONTROL ? You will only have a preprogrammed video to go by. You can‘t possibly be aware in real time where all the parts are during 200 milliseconds of the DS - BC the brain receives messages on a delayed basis. It happened before your brain received the info.
So- what part of the body is dominant and exihibits control over it ? That will obey its every command ?
You are correct. You only have time for one thought in 2/10 seconds during the DS - and that must be preprogrammed before you lift the shaft back to form your lever. The trick is to nail down what part of the body is responsible for that CONTROL ? You will only have a preprogrammed video to go by. You can‘t possibly be aware in real time where all the parts are during 200 milliseconds of the DS - BC the brain receives messages on a delayed basis. It happened before your brain received the info.
So- what part of the body is dominant and exihibits control over it ? That will obey its every command ?
My coach used to allow one swing thought in the backswing. Any more and I was in my head too much. Usually that was during swing changes. If I was swinging it well I would just pick a target and hit the shot.
93,
That is good advice . I am just a little different that the normal. I don’t put much credence on the BS. It’s only purpose is to form a lever system to be used to propel an object. It only consumes approx. 7/10 seconds of the entire 9/10 seconds duration of the swing. It is easy to actually be aware of it’s every move . That 2/10 seconds is where the rubber meets the road and the necessary knowledge comes into play to direct the clubface on the the proper Inclined arc/ plane into the ball.
Just my thoughts / opinion.
That is good advice . I am just a little different that the normal. I don’t put much credence on the BS. It’s only purpose is to form a lever system to be used to propel an object. It only consumes approx. 7/10 seconds of the entire 9/10 seconds duration of the swing. It is easy to actually be aware of it’s every move . That 2/10 seconds is where the rubber meets the road and the necessary knowledge comes into play to direct the clubface on the the proper Inclined arc/ plane into the ball.
Just my thoughts / opinion.
No, to all of your silly questions.
That statement was a reply to some one saying you can't think of rotating hips at start of downswing and has no relevance to you silly questions.
Without the legs and hips and shoulders to set the tone, the hands would be almost useless as stated by you in last quoted post(10010532).
I DO NOT DOUBT THAT THE HANDS are a controlling interest in the swing. As stated before "educated hands" are at the utmost importance.
My only, ONLY, dispute is the first move of PULL DOWN WITH THE DOMINANT HAND TO START DOWNSWING.C
If you rotate your hips to start downswing, your hands automatically drop in to a better hitting position and helps to transfer the weight.
Countless golf Pros and coaches demonstrate it on a daily basis.
And what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Because I said I had 6 swing thoughts in a PRACTICE SWING???
If the goat(Tiger Woods, in your opinion) has no intent, maybe they're just along for the ride. After all you state the the turning of the torso squares the face and provides the power. He exhibits the ultimate free flail where the proper backswing, the proper start of the lower body, the proper turning of the shoulders(torso) set up an almost automatic release of the club. He doesn't have to think of a release point or when or where to apply power; it happens in reaction to properly executed swing. No swing thought is required except down and thru.
Hogan even stated in 5 Lessons his hands are along for the ride....until about belt level.
Funny golf tip from J.C. Anderson - YouTube
I'm trying to keep my swing thoughts down to a manageable 25 or so. The problem is, when I do hit a good shot I'm not sure which swing thought is responsible for it!
I'm trying to keep my swing thoughts down to a manageable 25 or so. The problem is, when I do hit a good shot I'm not sure which swing thought is responsible for it!
If the hips begin to rotate at the very start of the DS the hips will automatically have to rotate also . This powerful shoulder rotation forces the hands and arms out which approx. 95 % of golfers do .
Good players drop the entire lever system/ shaft down and back before the shoulders begin to rotate. This drop down pulling back movement of the dominant hands forces the trapezius muscles to pull back on the large Scapula bone to keep it from pushing out and around and taking the arms with it . Otherwise , the player could never be in what Ben Hogan called , “ the slot “!
if you closely observe the great ball strikers you can easily see them performing this way .
Good players drop the entire lever system/ shaft down and back before the shoulders begin to rotate. This drop down pulling back movement of the dominant hands forces the trapezius muscles to pull back on the large Scapula bone to keep it from pushing out and around and taking the arms with it . Otherwise , the player could never be in what Ben Hogan called , “ the slot “!
if you closely observe the great ball strikers you can easily see them performing this way .