Switching Sides... I Just Ordered a PC

JonMA1

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Backstory....

I'm not tech savvy. If ever abducted by aliens and asked questions about our technology, I'd fail to provide useful information. Internal combustion engine? I don't know how it works. I step on the gas and the vehicle moves. Step on the brake, it stops.

The same could be said about computers. I understand the basis of binary code, but as far as why things happen when I press a combination of keys, it might as well be magic.

In the late 80's, I was fortunate enough to work for a printing company that transitioned to desktop publishing and I was one of the first to be trained. I was scared to death that I wouldn't be smart enough to thrive in the obvious direction that industry was heading. My brain was mush at the end of each day of training due to the intense concentration I thought was necessary.

Boy, was I wrong! The Macintosh interface was made for dummies like me. Within a very short period of time, I not only mastered the OS and prepress software, but I could diagnose and repair software conflicts as well as most hardware issues of the time. This held true for several years until they eventually transitioned to the OS X, UNIX-like platform (what the hell is a kernel?!!). While the user interface was still very simple, I lost my edge with troubleshooting.

In 1989, I bought my first home computer - an SE-30 that had a little 9" B&W screen. I installed a video card that allowed me to use a 14" color monitor in 24 bit depth. No modem, just a floppy drive. After several years, I transitioned to the new iMac all-in-one models with the CRT and network card. That lasted several years before updating to the newer flat-screen iMac model. And that computer lasted almost a decade before the drive failed, necessitating the need to buy the least expensive option at the time, the Mac Mini I'm currently using.

The one thing all the Macs I've ever used have in common - home or work - is that they last. I've used probably 2 dozen different Macs in the last 30 years at work and only one of those was buggy to point of being close to unusable. In that same 30 year span, I've owned only 4 Macs. The interface had always been intuitive, and they weren't as prone to malicious attacks. The "more bang for the buck" argument PC enthusiasts often used I felt was not entirely true as many of the Macs came standard with state-of-the-art components and some decent software (GarageBand for example) at no additional cost. The bottom line is that I bought Macs because I was familiar with OS and believed they were reasonably priced.

But it seems to me things have changed.

To the point of the topic...

Macintosh now offers two types of computers - 1) those for the budget conscious, and 2) high-end workstations. Don't get me wrong, I still believe they produce a quality computer and the workstations are powerful. But when I look at systems that will adequately run Adobe software, Fusion 360, and games like The Golf Club (a PC-only game), Macs are just too far outside my price range.

This morning, my wife ordered an HP desktop with a decent 9th generation i7F processor, adequate 16gb of memory (I'll probably upgrade to 32gb), a sufficient graphics card (Nvidia GTX 1660) and a solid state drive for faster restarting on all those Microsoft updates :angry:.

So why did my wife order a PC for me you might ask? Because I was too chickens!t to do it myself.

For tech savvy THP'ers on either side of the debate, did I make a mistake?
 
Backstory....

I'm not tech savvy. If ever abducted by aliens and asked questions about our technology, I'd fail to provide useful information. Internal combustion engine? I don't know how it works. I step on the gas and the vehicle moves. Step on the brake, it stops.

The same could be said about computers. I understand the basis of binary code, but as far as why things happen when I press a combination of keys, it might as well be magic.

In the late 80's, I was fortunate enough to work for a printing company that transitioned to desktop publishing and I was one of the first to be trained. I was scared to death that I wouldn't be smart enough to thrive in the obvious direction that industry was heading. My brain was mush at the end of each day of training due to the intense concentration I thought was necessary.

Boy, was I wrong! The Macintosh interface was made for dummies like me. Within a very short period of time, I not only mastered the OS and prepress software, but I could diagnose and repair software conflicts as well as most hardware issues of the time. This held true for several years until they eventually transitioned to the OS X, UNIX-like platform (what the hell is a kernel?!!). While the user interface was still very simple, I lost my edge with troubleshooting.

In 1989, I bought my first home computer - an SE-30 that had a little 9" B&W screen. I installed a video card that allowed me to use a 14" color monitor in 24 bit depth. No modem, just a floppy drive. After several years, I transitioned to the new iMac all-in-one models with the CRT and network card. That lasted several years before updating to the newer flat-screen iMac model. And that computer lasted almost a decade before the drive failed, necessitating the need to buy the least expensive option at the time, the Mac Mini I'm currently using.

The one thing all the Macs I've ever used have in common - home or work - is that they last. I've used probably 2 dozen different Macs in the last 30 years at work and only one of those was buggy to point of being close to unusable. In that same 30 year span, I've owned only 4 Macs. The interface had always been intuitive, and they weren't as prone to malicious attacks. The "more bang for the buck" argument PC enthusiasts often used I felt was not entirely true as many of the Macs came standard with state-of-the-art components and some decent software (GarageBand for example) at no additional cost. The bottom line is that I bought Macs because I was familiar with OS and believed they were reasonably priced.

But it seems to me things have changed.

To the point of the topic...

Macintosh now offers two types of computers - 1) those for the budget conscious, and 2) high-end workstations. Don't get me wrong, I still believe they produce a quality computer and the workstations are powerful. But when I look at systems that will adequately run Adobe software, Fusion 360, and games like The Golf Club (a PC-only game), Macs are just too far outside my price range.

This morning, my wife ordered an HP desktop with a decent 9th generation i7F processor, adequate 16gb of memory (I'll probably upgrade to 32gb), a sufficient graphics card (Nvidia GTX 1660) and a solid state drive for faster restarting on all those Microsoft updates :angry:.

So why did my wife order a PC for me you might ask? Because I was too chickens!t to do it myself.

For tech savvy THP'ers on either side of the debate, did I make a mistake?
I've been using macs since 1986. They have gone significantly downhill since 2007. With that in mind, I decided to try a pc for the first time a few years ago. It did not go well. No matter how much Windows attempts to bring in the ease of use that is featured in MacOS, they fail miserably. Windows 10 is clunky, and has so many redundancies I couldn't get it out of my head. In less than 30 days of heavy use, the PC went back, and I coughed up the extra scratch for a new Macbook pro. - My 4th apple laptop in 20 years (1 Powerbook G4, 3 Macbook Pro) - to your point about how long they last.

I used a G4, G5, Mac Pro desktop as well for a number of years, and now I have an imac from 2008 that's still running like new.

I still get tempted by the specs on new PCs for a few hundred less than a mac, but I'll never pull that trigger again.
 
I feel you did, but I'm biased. I was required to deal with Microsoft Windows in a corporate environment for many years. I came to hate it with a passion. One of the reasons I looked forward to retirement was knowing I'd never have to deal with an MS-Windows machine ever again.
 
All mac all the time at home. I've had nothing but Apple since moving out on my own 30 years ago. At work, I have to use windows. It's not horrible, but it's just not as good. I spend too much time trying figure stuff out instead of accomplishing things. It's just not as intuitive.
 
Honestly the OS is just another piece of software.

Choose one that works with the software you need.

I use multiple linux distros and windows. I havent run macOS in over a decade but try to keep my knowledge on it for basic support for friends. But windows 10 isnt that bad, but I recommend doing a fresh install and debloat. You will be surprised with how much stuff is on the system taking up resources.
 
I've been using macs since 1986. They have gone significantly downhill since 2007. With that in mind, I decided to try a pc for the first time a few years ago. It did not go well. No matter how much Windows attempts to bring in the ease of use that is featured in MacOS, they fail miserably. Windows 10 is clunky, and has so many redundancies I couldn't get it out of my head. In less than 30 days of heavy use, the PC went back, and I coughed up the extra scratch for a new Macbook pro. - My 4th apple laptop in 20 years (1 Powerbook G4, 3 Macbook Pro) - to your point about how long they last.

I used a G4, G5, Mac Pro desktop as well for a number of years, and now I have an imac from 2008 that's still running like new.

I still get tempted by the specs on new PCs for a few hundred less than a mac, but I'll never pull that trigger again.
How's that iPad working out? Able to FaceTime and do all that important stuff? ;):laughing:
 
Need a new laptop myself. Apples are just too much $$$.
I no longer need a "business" laptop, but I think I'll err to that side once again. Longer warranties and less software "stuff" that needs to be removed from the factory, generally. The good news is that prices seem to have come down since my last purchase eons ago. I think I'll come in about $300-500 cheaper for a nicer machine now. (y)

Went to "Microsoft bootcamp" as I called it at the local community college years ago. Got a network support degree. Not much Apple content at all. Just the CAD programs were using them at the time. Lotta that was image resolution related.
Just iphone acesss to the network for CEO's when I was still in that game. Lotta" learn as you go" like you experienced too! Mostly that! o_O:cool:
 
left macs a while back...it wasn't giving me anything except a lighter wallet for the things i use a computer for...and i like to build my own PCs so i am more inclined to tinker with a PC than a mac...
 
I much prefer the Apple landscape, and that’s all we have at home. It’s very user-friendly and all my devices “talk” to each other... iPhones, iMac, MacBook, AppleTV...
I’m still forced to use the PC stuff at work on my laptop, but even they have started to see the light and are allowing iPhones to be corporate devices, and have iPads for training new staff.
 
I'm the opposite, been PC my whole life since dos 1.2 and you couldn't give me a Mac. Sure I will admit they have some pretty great graphics editing packages and the sound editing software my bil uses in his studio is nice but, give me good productivity software any day.
 
I don’t think it’s a simple answer. From an OS perspecive, I think you’re OK. i’ve owned PCs since 1994, and my wife has had a MacBook Pro for about 4 years. I think it’s easier to go Mac to PC than the other way around. The kids have had Macs and they seem to be able to move seamlessly between both. I have some troubleshooting OS X issues but I get through them.

The hardware side is more problematic for me. It reads like your wife customized a PC on HP’s website. The 1660 performs well and is relatively energy efficient. But HP and Apple have different business models for computers.

Do you know whether you bought a “business” or “consumer” PC? My experience has been the components in business PCs may not have quite the performance of consumer PCs but they last longer. A consumer grade PC may have brand name graphics cards and such but they are highly price competitive, which means they cut costs where it is not too visible. That usually means something like a proprietary motherboard with cheap components, like capacitors, to cut costs. I had a feature-rich HP fail in its third year. A quick web search found thread after thread describing capacitor failures in my model. I needed something quickly, so I bought another HP and returned it on the last possible day because a power connector would not stay connected. Snce then I’ve built my own - four PCs since 2011, all still in use.

i also have family members who got seven years out of HPs they bought at Walmart. But if I had to bet, this HP will not last as long as your Apples.
 
I much prefer the Apple landscape, and that’s all we have at home. It’s very user-friendly and all my devices “talk” to each other... iPhones, iMac, MacBook, AppleTV...
There was a time, and it wasn't all that long ago, when I felt that I'd never in a million years become an "Apple-head." Then, when our second set of Android tablets started becoming problematical and we saw a good deal on iPads at Costco, we bought a pair.

We were so happy with the iPads that, when issues arose for us with Android and Google, we switched to iPhones.

That was followed, for me, by an Apple Watch and a pair of Air Pods.

More recently we started swapping-out our Amazon Fire TV and Android TV streaming boxes for Apple TV streamers.

The smoothness of integration between these Apple devices is nothing short of astonishing to me, and I've been working in computer tech since before Microsoft DOS even existed--much less MS-Windows.

Soon it will be time to buy new desktops. They will likely be Macs. They may be Linux. (Mainly what we're using now.) They most definitely won't be MS-Windows.
 
I like everything about Macs better except Excel. I am an accountant and basically live in excel. I know there will be some that think they function the same in each but they just don't for me. Mac is slightly clunkier like a googlesheet.

But I much prefer the Mac for navigating and I use an iphone and ipad.
 
There was a time, and it wasn't all that long ago, when I felt that I'd never in a million years become an "Apple-head." Then, when our second set of Android tablets started becoming problematical and we saw a good deal on iPads at Costco, we bought a pair.

We were so happy with the iPads that, when issues arose for us with Android and Google, we switched to iPhones.

That was followed, for me, by an Apple Watch and a pair of Air Pods.

More recently we started swapping-out our Amazon Fire TV and Android TV streaming boxes for Apple TV streamers.

The smoothness of integration between these Apple devices is nothing short of astonishing to me, and I've been working in computer tech since before Microsoft DOS even existed--much less MS-Windows.

Soon it will be time to buy new desktops. They will likely be Macs. They may be Linux. (Mainly what we're using now.) They most definitely won't be MS-Windows.
Right! I forgot about my Apple watch!

I very much appreciate the seamless integration of the Apple environment.

I tried Linux for a while, maybe 10 years ago and it was okay but needed way more upkeep than I was willing to invest. I just want it to work.
 
You're going to hate it haha. If you are a Mac person, the pc will drive you crazy I think. I can't even turn my wife's pc on let alone type or backspace. I buy refurbished MacBooks.
 
I can tell you one thing. It is NOT a computer. F off, apple and your stupid ad campaign
Yeah, it's not a computer for sure. All of our Sales guys and R&D guys have them. And anytime I have to meet with them and go over something that is beyond conversation they inevitably have to pull out their computer.
 
The first computer I ever learned how to take apart and reassemble was a Macintosh.

I've had a MacBook at home for close to 15 years and it's still as responsive as the day I brought it home. On the other hand my Win10 Pro HP Elitebook I use for work gets a tick slower every day.

I'll be honest when I say that I don't use much any software on my Mac other than Mail, Safari and iTunes so I don't take advantage of the power. Heck, even when I'm going to resize photos to post here I'll use my PC because I don't know how to do it with the Mac. Despite that, if I ever need another PC for home it will be a Mac.

But hey, you've got to test the waters every now and then. Perhaps this experience with a new PC will renew your appreciation for the Mac.
 
I had PC's for a long time, I would buy cheaper desktops and always ended up with the Blue screen of death. Bought a Mac the last time on my then girlfriends advice and haven't looked back in ten years now.
If I want to game then I will get on the step sons PC, otherwise it is Mac for me.
 
Heck, even when I'm going to resize photos to post here I'll use my PC because I don't know how to do it with the Mac.
Install an open source program called GIMP. (GNU/Graphics Image Manipulation Program.) Piece o' cake :)
 
I am preparing myself for the worst-case scenario which would be the interface is so awkward that I can't use it. From what I've observe from others using MS, the upgrades are frequent and time-consuming to the point of being a pain in the ass. My wife is in the IT profession but specializes more in maintaining the networks and MS licensing than troubleshooting individual workstations. Still, she is much more tech savvy than I am and will hopefully be able to offer support.

As far as what I have now, this mac mini is a dog. When typing in the browser window, after the first two characters there is a 4 or 5 second lag before the following characters appear. Opening an Adobe application is painfully slow. I cannot instal more memory, and the 8gb it currently has just doesn't cut it. The technology on this model (Mac mini Late 2014) was outdated when I bought it, but I had to get something at the time. Some of the issues probably could be resolved or improved upon. I run Sophos 24/7 and for all I know, that could be part of the cause as could Adobe's Creative Cloud. A lot of that stuff runs in the background and I would imagine uses up resources. Conversely, the Mac Pro I use at work is a beast, and it's an older model. But that system would cost me $5 to $6k.

Do you know whether you bought a “business” or “consumer” PC?

This is the model I picked out and believe it's a consumer model, even though I initially wanted more of a gaming system. I agree with your assessment of HP using cheaper components with some of the "brand X" makers even more so. I've always felt Macs were consistently high quality.

One of the reasons I looked forward to retirement was knowing I'd never have to deal with an MS-Windows machine ever again.

The wife has to deal with Microsoft audits all the time at work. She is extremely organized with licensing for the 200 or so users at her agency, and it's still a pain.

Honestly, as I approach retirement I seem to lose more of the desire to try and figure out a lot this stuff - even on the mac. With every major OS upgrade, there are more features that - while I'm sure are beneficial to most - just add another layer of crap that I have to learn or at least search in Google. Transferring images from a phone to the mac was always pretty easy - even with an android phone. Now, even the simplest of tasks seems to be more difficult, but that's on me. Good Lord, I'm becoming one of those old folks.

f I want to game then I will get on the step sons PC, otherwise it is Mac for me.
Maybe this is what I'll end up doing if things go south with the PC. One of the catalysts for making the switch was the Rapsodo golf simulator purchase last winter. It uses The Golf Club to run the sim and they do not have a version for the Mac. I partitioned the drive and loaded Windows on the partition so I could play. The game is very demanding and because the onboard graphics card on the mac is so wimpy, I have to use the smallest screen size setting just to run it.

So I going to blame golf entirely for this poor decision.:ROFLMAO:

I'll follow up in a couple of weeks.
 
Install an open source program called GIMP. (GNU/Graphics Image Manipulation Program.) Piece o' cake :)
You don't even need that - Preview (which is part of MacOS) will resize photos quickly and easily. It's no Photoshop, but it handles basic image manipulation fine.


I started with PCs in the days of MS-DOS 3.1. Learned how to write .bat files to create menu systems and perform tasks, moved on to Windows/286 and then went through all versions of Windows up to and including XP. Spec'ed and built my own PCs, was darn good at troubleshooting both hardware and software issues (of which there were plenty - "plug and play" was more like "plug and pray"). I was "the computer guy" that all my friends came to whenever they had computer problems or wanted to upgrade something, seemed like I was almost constantly working on other people's computers. If I wasn't troubleshooting some I/O conflict, I was cleaning malware, adware, spyware, viruses, etc. off them. The only thing I never got really good at was networking issues, because it was such a complicated nightmare on Windows.

When the living abortion that was Windows Vista came along, I decided to give Apple a try. I bought a Mac laptop and was amazed at how simple everything was and how well it all worked. From there I made the full transition to the Apple ecosystem and have never looked back. I still have a 12-year old iMac that's getting long in the tooth and a bit pokey on newer software, but the hardware still works perfectly. My Macbook is 10 years old and still runs fine as well, although the battery life is getting shorter. The iMac I'm writing this on is over 5 years old and have never had a problem with it. I don't know a lot about troubleshooting Macs, because I so rarely ever have to do it - everything just works.

I still had to use Windows at work, and hated every second of it - anything that didn't have to be done on the network, I did on my Macbook instead. I've fiddled around a bit with the newer versions of Windows (Win 7 through 10), but haven't seen one single thing that makes me even begin to ponder switching back. No doubt Macs are more expensive, and I don't think Apple is perfect by any means, but I'll gladly pay the premium for their quality and ease of use. The other advantage is that I'm no longer "the computer guy" to my friends because I just say "Sorry, I don't use Windows and don't know anything about it anymore!".
 
This morning, my wife ordered an HP desktop with a decent 9th generation i7F processor, adequate 16gb of memory (I'll probably upgrade to 32gb), a sufficient graphics card (Nvidia GTX 1660) and a solid state drive for faster restarting on all those Microsoft updates :angry:.

So why did my wife order a PC for me you might ask? Because I was too chickens!t to do it myself.

For tech savvy THP'ers on either side of the debate, did I make a mistake?

That is very similar to what I use, except mine is a laptop. It should serve you well.
 
I have, to date, avoided becoming entangled in the Apple web. I refuse to allow myself to become a slave to one company. I have owned exactly one Apple device in my life... an iPod Classic. It was alright, but when I hear about people that make the move from one device to two, then to three, and eventually they have a house full of Apple products, I thank God that I did avoid it.

The only thing Apple I own at this point is a few shares of their stock. I hope there are plenty of people out there that still enjoy their stuff because I want the stock values to rise.
 
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