The 60 and over Thread

[Buckeyegolfnut]

One of the flattest greens on the course is set on a severe downslope so it looks like it’s sloped from back to front when it is slightly sloped from front to back. Putting from the front to the back of the green it looks uphill, but it’s slightly downhill, so most people run their putts 6-10’ by. It’s shear trickery I tell you.

This describes the practice green, and many others, at our muni to a T. The first time I went there to look at the place, having not been there for quite some time, I brought my putter and couple of balls. Being a muni I was afraid of the greens putting like a shag carpet. They did not! The practice green sits directly behind the clubhouse and looks for all the world like it slopes away from it. It does not! It slopes toward the clubhouse, and my eyes just could not see it.

 

[skigolfmike]

I agree whole heartedly. If you can't get up and down 9/10 times from wherever your full PW is and in, you really, really need to work on all of your wedges and chipping. Conquer the short game and crap driving and poor approaches dont hurt nearly as much.
Ask me how I know. Lol

One of the things that DECADE golf talks about is the Tiger 5 which are the 5 things you should try not to do. One part of the Tiger 5 is missing the green from a 9 iron in. For me that is a 110 carry , 115 total from the fairway. Other than a miss hit, if I aim at the middle of the green, I should be on the green 8 or 9 times out of 10 hitting out of the fairway. Out of the rough, it’s more like 5 - 7 times out of 10. What I have been working on is knowing my shot patterns and adjusting my aim based on that pattern. In a lot of cases it means aiming away from the pin, not necessarily playing to the middle of the green, but adjusting aim to have he best chance of at least putting the ball on the green.

 

[JonMA1]

if you can't make par/birdie from there then there are other issues with your game other than hitting it short with driver

Yep. This is what I mean when I say distance is not the biggest challenge for a lot of us.

 

[1860VS]

At the Sim yesterday I came to see how much my kids and my game are diverging. My son has this mental block about hitting a driver in the sim after he hit a wall once on his backswing. So, i go get a Diet Coke, come back and he is in the head. I tee off , picking a tight line that would qget me between a bunker in the middle of the fairway and the rough, and should allow me to see around the corner to the green. I murdered the uphill tee shot dead straight on my line and was quite happy i was looking straight at the green from the middle of the dogleg.. Till my 24 yr old kid came out and casually carried his 3 wood 265 uphill and over the corner of the dogleg for a flip wedge in....
Youth.....

 

[Grand Stranded]

I agree whole heartedly. If you can't get up and down 9/10 times from wherever your full PW is and in, you really, really need to work on all of your wedges and chipping. Conquer the short game and crap driving and poor approaches dont hurt nearly as much.
Ask me how I know. Lol

Are you saying you get up and down 90% of the time from full PW distance and in?

 

[1860VS]

Are you saying you get up and down 90% of the time from full PW distance and in?

Absolutely not. Heck from a full PW i doubt I hit the green 90% of the time. (sims dont count here, i mean real grass with crap lies, wind, etc) I was just poorly trying to emphasize how a sharp short game can shave strokes more than bad driving and approaches can add them. I shouldn't have pulled a percentage out if my backside.

 

[Birdman03]

Absolutely not. Heck from a full PW i doubt I hit the green 90% of the time. (sims dont count here, i mean real grass with crap lies, wind, etc) I was just poorly trying to emphasize how a sharp short game can shave strokes more than bad driving and approaches can add them. I shouldn't have pulled a percentage out if my backside.

I understood it to mean your average is 3.0 strokes to hole out when hitting PW or shorter on approach shots. That is a reasonable number for a low HC golfer and a good stat to track.

Up and Down would mean 2.0 strokes to hole out. That would be better stated as % of birdies or better when hitting PW or shorter on approach shots. In my case that is where the majority of my birdies are made, especially on Par 5s. The reason is that I rarely hit PW or shorter on Par 3 and Par 4 approach shots but do so frequently on Par 5s.

Over several years of playing I began to realize that to make more birdies I had to execute better in those situations.

 

[Hacker67]

Let me ask you at what swing speed should you be thinking of graphite 70 grams or so?

My ego took a hit today when I realized I can only hit a 7 iron 74 mph. I'm rocking 97 gram steel shafts in my HD but wondering if that may be too much weight. I actually hurt my back last weekend when I tried to swing out of shoes a bit.

Do think it's time to dial it down to a 70 gram graphite shaft. Heck my back is still hurting from that swing and it was only a 9 iron. Please advise.

 

[JonMA1]

While I have no business in a discussion about shooting par, the frustrating thing is that at one point early on, I developed the ability to hit a freakishly high percentage of greens (not necessarily in regulation) from 100 yards and in, something I haven't been able to get close to repeating in the last 6 years.

 

[Triple Lindy]

While I have no business in a discussion about shooting par, the frustrating thing is that at one point early on, I developed the ability to hit a freakishly high percentage of greens (not necessarily in regulation) from 100 yards and in, something I haven't been able to get close to repeating in the last 6 years.

That 100 yards and in shot is usually what keeps me at bogey or better. As you say, it’s not always in regulation, but I fully expect to be on and within reasonable range of a makeable putt from that distance, except when playing tricky greens.

 

[Sean]

f you can't get up and down 9/10 times from wherever your full PW i

On a side note, the average scrambling percentage of the PGAT is around 60%.

 

[Sean]

My son has this mental block about hitting a driver in the sim after he hit a wall once on his backswing.

I have yet to play a sim where my driver doesn't hit the ceiling, so I don't play any sim golf. Once in a blue moon I will practice on one, but I don't play any golf courses.

 

[Grand Stranded]

Let me ask you at what swing speed should you be thinking of graphite 70 grams or so?

My ego took a hit today when I realized I can only hit a 7 iron 74 mph. I'm rocking 97 gram steel shafts in my HD but wondering if that may be too much weight. I actually hurt my back last weekend when I tried to swing out of shoes a bit.

Do think it's time to dial it down to a 70 gram graphite shaft. Heck my back is still hurting from that swing and it was only a 9 iron. Please advise.

Hacker, if I’m not mistaken, this is your 3rd go round with the HDs? Have you ever tried the stock graphite in regular flex? (I think it’s only in the low to mid 50g range though)
OEMs select the stock steel and graphite shafts for a reason. They work best for most people who will buy that club.

 

[JonMA1]

That 100 yards and in shot is usually what keeps me at bogey or better. As you say, it’s not always in regulation, but I fully expect to be on and within reasonable range of a makeable putt from that distance, except when playing tricky greens.

That makes sense, Lindy. For me, the higher my greens hit, the worse my putt per round becomes, which makes sense since chipping on is going to get us closer for putting. There are so many times when I'll hit a green with an approach and know there's a greater chance to 3-putt just because of the distance of the first lag putt. As far as up and downs, my putter from off the green (66%) is far stronger than my wedge game (less than 20%), while putts per GIR is 2.1 which seems low.

Percentage wise of greens hit from 50 - 120 yards is not horrific (38%) - until you look at the dispersion of the 62% that missed. Haha.

 

[Triple Lindy]

That makes sense, Lindy. For me, the higher my greens hit, the worse my putt per round becomes, which makes sense since chipping on is going to get us closer for putting. There are so many times when I'll hit a green with an approach and know there's a greater chance to 3-putt just because of the distance of the first lag putt. As far as up and downs, my putter from off the green (66%) is far stronger than my wedge game (less than 20%), while putts per GIR is 2.1 which seems low.

Percentage wise of greens hit from 50 - 120 yards is not horrific (38%) - until you look at the dispersion of the 62% that missed. Haha.

I can relate! And like you, I’ll putt from off the green if relatively flat with no obstructions. Funny, if I miss a putt from off the green by 6’, it feels like a terrible putt, but a chip to the same distance is celebrated.

 

[skigolfmike]

I count putts the PGAT way ever since I was a walking scorer for the Nike/buy.com/Korn whatever tour. A putt from the fringe is not a putt. However, if you are on the green and putt it off the green, you are still putting no matter what club you hit.

I think better stats are how many putts from what distance. Proximity to the hole from various yardages, etc. Let’s say for a point of discussion I hit my wedge 100 yards (it’s actually a smige farther) and my dispersion is +/- 5 yards in distance and +/- 10 yards in width. Now, let’s say I’m playing to a pin 5 paces on and 5 paces off the right side. Well, if it’s exactly 100 to the pin, and, if I’m short, I’m on, if I’m long I’m on. As far as left or right, I’ll aim 6 yards left. If my shot pattern holds, then I’ll by on the green somewhere between next to the hole to as far away as 35’. With that shot pattern your average distance to the pin would be ~15’. My guess, if you’re a decent putter, and have that shot pattern your average # of shots from 100 yards in would be slightly under 3.0.

Maybe a stat will start tracking next year is scoring average from 115 in out of the fairway and out of the rough to just see what my numbers are.

 

[BH 43]

Let me ask you at what swing speed should you be thinking of graphite 70 grams or so?

My ego took a hit today when I realized I can only hit a 7 iron 74 mph. I'm rocking 97 gram steel shafts in my HD but wondering if that may be too much weight. I actually hurt my back last weekend when I tried to swing out of shoes a bit.

Do think it's time to dial it down to a 70 gram graphite shaft. Heck my back is still hurting from that swing and it was only a 9 iron. Please advise.

I use a 64g graphite shaft on all my hybrids,4 thru 9 and at Club Champion I had a 63 MPH swing with a 5 iron.

 

[JonMA1]

A putt from the fringe is not a putt.

This is how every shot tracking software I've ever used scores it as well. (I have to occasionally make adjustments after the round when gps didn't recognize the putt being from the fringe.) That's why my putter is by far the strongest "short game" club. As long as I have short grass and not a lot of distance - and sometimes even if I have just a small amount of rough to get through - putter is usually my best option.

That said, I can still have a low number of total putts and feel like I didn't putt well.

 

[cuonthe1t]

This is how every shot tracking software I've ever used scores it as well. (I have to occasionally make adjustments after the round when gps didn't recognize the putt being from the fringe.) That's why my putter is by far the strongest "short game" club. As long as I have short grass and not a lot of distance - and sometimes even if I have just a small amount of rough to get through - putter is usually my best option.

That said, I can still have a low number of total putts and feel like I didn't putt well.

always count as a putt if I am up to 4ft off the green - you can be 30ft away on the green but 4 ft off the green and only say 16 ft from the hole which would you sooner have - I would take the 4ft off the green all day - way most fringes are cut present day it is like being on the green - it is not like the 60's and early 70's when the greens probably stimped at 7 to 8

 

[JonMA1]

always count as a putt if I am up to 4ft off the green - you can be 30ft away on the green but 4 ft off the green and only say 16 ft from the hole which would you sooner have - I would take the 4ft off the green all day - way most fringes are cut present day it is like being on the green - it is not like the 60's and early 70's when the greens probably stimped at 7 to 8

A 30' lag putt isn't the end of the world, but I'd prefer the 16' putt from the fringe as well. I will say this, any approach shot that provides either of those options is a win. GIR is a good statistic, but I'd rather have better proximity to the hole numbers.

In the end, my game is just very weak at every single category. If I was a savant with any single part of the game but my skill with the others remained the same, I still wouldn't be a good golfer.

 

[skigolfmike]

always count as a putt if I am up to 4ft off the green - you can be 30ft away on the green but 4 ft off the green and only say 16 ft from the hole which would you sooner have - I would take the 4ft off the green all day - way most fringes are cut present day it is like being on the green - it is not like the 60's and early 70's when the greens probably stimped at 7 to 8

While I can’t compare myself to tour pros with my long game, I can compare my sort game and putting. So, until the ball first ends up on the green, it’s not a putt. I like comparing apples to apples. What would really be more interesting as a stat is average number of putts from different distances. Say 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 60, 60+. That would be a lot to keep and talk about contributing to slow play. Ugh! I think the stat I’ll look at more is hitting the green from 115 in and average score differentiating between fairway and rough. Improving in that area has to be good for my game.

 

[BH 43]

I always shoot for the middle of the green and have about a 40% chance of making it and usually 2 putt.

 

[Birdman03]

I always shoot for the middle of the green and have about a 40% chance of making it and usually 2 putt.

Percentage of made putts when the ball is GIR is a key stat I like to track. It is also very easy as it does not require any distance measurement. From experience I know that 20% or over is a very strong number for that. So if you are doing it at a 40% rate that would be amazing!

However I suspect you are counting make %age for all first putts, some of which are for par or even bogey. A 40% number for that would be very possible because short putts after chipping/pitching onto the greens are included.

 

[tehuti]

Played 18 today. Shot 45/55 100. Brutal back 9.

The front 9 is easier, but there is no way I should shoot 55 on the back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Birdman03]

Played 18 today. Shot 45/55 100. Brutal back 9.

The front 9 is easier, but there is no way I should shoot 55 on the back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ouch! Those blow-ups usually start with wild driving and maybe a too risky recovery shot or two.