The GHIN Soft Cap

Snowman

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In the app? I don't remember that. I hardly ever look at the app though. Damn. Now I kind of wish it applied to me right now. That would be an annoying reminder if it was there all the time. *we're screwing you because other people suck, just FYI. lol
Yep, it shows in the mobile app. Here are a couple screenshots from when I look up a friend's handicap (I happened to know he was soft capped, so a good example). The first one is what the screen initially looks like (I cropped out his name and home club, just left the relevant info) - note the exclamation point next to his handicap index:

IMG_4400.PNG

If you click on the exclamation point, it brings up a callout showing that a soft cap has been applied:

IMG_4401.PNG

His low within the last 12 months is 11.9, so the soft cap kicks in as soon as he hits 14.9, and will suppress upward movement of his handicap by 50% until he reaches a handicap index that is 5 strokes above his low, at which point a hard cap is applied - so if he was to hit 16.9, the hard cap would kick in and allow no more upward movement until his lowest handicap in the last 12 month period went up. The low is continually rolling as well, so if his lowest HI was recent, he'd be hard capped at 16.9 for a while; if his lowest HI was close to a year ago, it would allow further upward movement (although still suppressed at 50% by the soft cap) as his lowest 12 month HI went up.

Clear as mud? :ROFLMAO:
 

mtbloco

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Yep, it shows in the mobile app. Here are a couple screenshots from when I look up a friend's handicap (I happened to know he was soft capped, so a good example). The first one is what the screen initially looks like (I cropped out his name and home club, just left the relevant info) - note the exclamation point next to his handicap index:

View attachment 9012536

If you click on the exclamation point, it brings up a callout showing that a soft cap has been applied:

View attachment 9012537

His low within the last 12 months is 11.9, so the soft cap kicks in as soon as he hits 14.9, and will suppress upward movement of his handicap by 50% until he reaches a handicap index that is 5 strokes above his low - so if he was to hit 16.9, a hard cap would kick in and allow no more upward movement until his lowest handicap in the last 12 month period went up. The low is continually rolling as well, so if his lowest HI was recent, he'd be hard capped at 16.9 for a while; if his lowest HI was close to a year ago, it would allow further upward movement (although still suppressed at 50% by the soft cap) as his lowest 12 month HI went up.

Clear as mud? :ROFLMAO:
I saw that when I was establishing my cap. Never clicked the !
 

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Yep, it shows in the mobile app. Here are a couple screenshots from when I look up a friend's handicap (I happened to know he was soft capped, so a good example). The first one is what the screen initially looks like (I cropped out his name and home club, just left the relevant info) - note the exclamation point next to his handicap index:

View attachment 9012536

If you click on the exclamation point, it brings up a callout showing that a soft cap has been applied:

View attachment 9012537

His low within the last 12 months is 11.9, so the soft cap kicks in as soon as he hits 14.9, and will suppress upward movement of his handicap by 50% until he reaches a handicap index that is 5 strokes above his low - so if he was to hit 16.9, a hard cap would kick in and allow no more upward movement until his lowest handicap in the last 12 month period went up. The low is continually rolling as well, so if his lowest HI was recent, he'd be hard capped at 16.9 for a while; if his lowest HI was close to a year ago, it would allow further upward movement (although still suppressed at 50% by the soft cap) as his lowest 12 month HI went up.

Clear as mud? :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, I get how it out works. It's effed me before. And I'm virtually certain I've seen that little thing next to my cap now that I think about it, but if we weren't talking about it right now, it would never even occur to me to click on it. I do the absolute minimum in there. Usually just check C.H. for a set of tees, and try not to actually focus my eyes on anything else. It's really not good for my mental health. :LOL:
 

Snowman

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I saw that when I was establishing my cap. Never clicked the !
There's a mechanism which works in the opposite direction also - if you shoot a score that's significantly lower than your average differential (I believe it's 7 strokes lower, but don't quote me), it applies a -1 to all of your most recent differentials, which artificially drives your handicap lower. You can see a BIG decrease in your index from one abnormally low score, but one abnormally high score won't affect anything since it won't be counted in the 8 of your last 20 that your index is calculated from. USGA/GHIN don't care about vanity caps, but they're all in against sandbaggers.
 

mtbloco

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There's a mechanism which works in the opposite direction also - if you shoot a score that's significantly lower than your average differential (I believe it's 7 strokes lower, but don't quote me), it applies a -1 to all of your most recent differentials, which artificially drives your handicap lower. You can see a BIG decrease in your index from one abnormally low score, but one abnormally high score won't affect anything since it won't be counted in the 8 of your last 20 that your index is calculated from. USGA/GHIN don't care about vanity caps, but they're all in against sandbaggers.
See above. That one accelerated my crater from 26.4 to 19.2.
 

Snowman

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See above. That one accelerated my crater from 26.4 to 19.2.
I missed your earlier post, just went back and read it. Yep, that's exactly what happens. I mean, on one hand it looks cool, but it screws you out of some pops if you're playing money games! :ROFLMAO:
 

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So interesting. I suppose it is a sandbagger protection…. Does it also stop it if you drop a great deal?

2E11E588-F233-4B91-A195-4DB12FEEE337.jpeg
 

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So interesting. I suppose it is a sandbagger protection…. Does it also stop it if you drop a great deal?

View attachment 9012541
Nope. Refer to the part where it says "There is no limit on the amount by which a player's Handicap Index can decrease."

Artificially low handicaps don't hurt anybody but you. Artificially high handicaps potentially hurt the rest of the field you're playing against.
 

jmix18

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Nope. Refer to the part where it says "There is no limit on the amount by which a player's Handicap Index can decrease."

Artificially low handicaps don't hurt anybody but you. Artificially high handicaps potentially hurt the rest of the field you're playing against.
Ah…. Missed that part!

I do have a buddy that is an reverse sandbagger….Never turns out well for him when we play cash games! Lol!
 

mtbloco

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I missed your earlier post, just went back and read it. Yep, that's exactly what happens. I mean, on one hand it looks cool, but it screws you out of some pops if you're playing money games! :ROFLMAO:
I missed that glorious time when I had a crazy high cap, yet learned to play golf. My one league match in that time I shot a 91. And didn’t sniff low net.

now the guy that win had a DAY to take the medal. no one would have touched that performance.

I just wanted all my 2 pop Net eagles for some skins. 😂
 

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Ah…. Missed that part!

I do have a buddy that is an reverse sandbagger….Never turns out well for him when we play cash games! Lol!
We had a friend of a friend show up a few weeks ago for our Saturday morning men's club game - he was a 5 handicap and so was playing off a course handicap of 1. It didn't take long to see that he was a total vanity 'capper, he played more like a 20 than a 5. Needless to say he got shut out in the skins game that day. He liked to gamble though, so I went to one of the guys in our regular group who's a legit 8 handicap and told him he needed to get this guy out on the course and bet him for everything he could get out of him! :LOL:
 

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We had a friend of a friend show up a few weeks ago for our Saturday morning men's club game - he was a 5 handicap and so was playing off a course handicap of 1. It didn't take long to see that he was a total vanity 'capper, he played more like a 20 than a 5. Needless to say he got shut out in the skins game that day. He liked to gamble though, so I went to one of the guys in our regular group who's a legit 8 handicap and told him he needed to get this guy out on the course and bet him for everything he could get out of him! :LOL:
Love those type of guys! Always welcome in my group! 🤣🤣
 

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Yes. I have been battling it this year. Arthritis coming back in my upper arms / shoulders have limited my range of motion and ball striking this year and has resulted in my handicap going up. I have been limited by about a stroke under what it should be for the past couple of months.
 

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Got hit with that towards the end of last year. GHIN doesn’t seem to care about things like actually using PCC, or transfusion consumption, or a really cold conditions where you can’t feel your hands.
 

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Got hit with that towards the end of last year. GHIN doesn’t seem to care about things like actually using PCC, or transfusion consumption, or a really cold conditions where you can’t feel your hands.
I don't know how many rounds have to be posted for PCC to be computed but I have [checks GHIN app] nearly 180 scores posted in the last 18 months and only 4 of them have a PCC adjustment.
 

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I don't know how many rounds have to be posted for PCC to be computed but I have [checks GHIN app] nearly 180 scores posted in the last 18 months and only 4 of them have a PCC adjustment.
From how I understood it, the head pro of the course or someone off staff has to manually add it. Like oh, 20mph winds today and everyone was a few shots higher? Well, better add a shot or two to the PCC. I’ve had 2-3 rounds be docked because they were deemed “easier” days. I begged to disagree.
 

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From how I understood it, the head pro of the course or someone off staff has to manually add it. Like oh, 20mph winds today and everyone was a few shots higher? Well, better add a shot or two to the PCC. I’ve had 2-3 rounds be docked because they were deemed “easier” days. I begged to disagree.
I'm not sure about that. That's more like how the old UK system worked.

Maybe that's what the new system ended up with eventually but when it was first discussed the proposals included PCC as an automatic computation based on some minimum number of scores. Basically if the average handicap differential for a day is more than a certain amount higher or lower than normal the system computes a PCC adjustment.

But I've really got no idea how they actually did it when the new system kicked off in January, 2020.
 

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From how I understood it, the head pro of the course or someone off staff has to manually add it. Like oh, 20mph winds today and everyone was a few shots higher? Well, better add a shot or two to the PCC. I’ve had 2-3 rounds be docked because they were deemed “easier” days. I begged to disagree.
It actually has nothing to do with "playing conditions" or some pro at a course making any determination. Only scores posted that day on that course relative to what those scores are expected to be based on handicaps (I have no idea how the system makes that determination) are what is taken into account. A minimum of 8 scores have to be posted on the same day as they were shot to even be considered. Now, conditions or course set up may affect the scores but it is the scores themselves that determine any adjustment. If conditions are really bad and less than 8 scores are posted, or if some don't post good scores due to being sandbaggers it throws the whole concept out of whack.

I've had this discussion elsewhere that this concept of PCC is farcical. Any any given day the "field", especially at a public course, can vary wildly in regard to capability which could result in more good or bad scores being posted on a given day regardless of "playing conditions". This explains how the PCC works. Note, the calculation is done by the system. No one needs to take any action other than posting a score.

FAQs - What is the Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC)? (usga.org)

For a more detailed explanation:

5.6 Playing Conditions Calculation (usga.org)
 

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I must have missed something @Canadan, I thought everyone was using the World Handicap System now?
 

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I must have missed something @Canadan, I thought everyone was using the World Handicap System now?
I think just about everyone is using some version of the World Handicap System. But keep in mind there is not one system. WHS is a family of systems based on shared principles but varying hugely in the details.

Chief among them, in USGA jurisdiction we still post every score (other than solo rounds) while in UK and some other parts of the world they only post attested competitive scores and scores from certain other pre-arranged rounds.

But there are numerous other differences as well.
 

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I think just about everyone is using some version of the World Handicap System. But keep in mind there is not one system. WHS is a family of systems based on shared principles but varying hugely in the details.

Chief among them, in USGA jurisdiction we still post every score (other than solo rounds) while in UK and some other parts of the world they only post attested competitive scores and scores from certain other pre-arranged rounds.

But there are numerous other differences as well.
Wow I did not know that, that’s completely thrown me! I thought the sole purpose of the WHS was to make it uniform across the world. I feel like that’s how it is being presented at least:

 

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It actually has nothing to do with "playing conditions" or some pro at a course making any determination. Only scores posted that day on that course relative to what those scores are expected to be based on handicaps (I have no idea how the system makes that determination) are what is taken into account. A minimum of 8 scores have to be posted on the same day as they were shot to even be considered. Now, conditions or course set up may affect the scores but it is the scores themselves that determine any adjustment. If conditions are really bad and less than 8 scores are posted, or if some don't post good scores due to being sandbaggers it throws the whole concept out of whack.

I've had this discussion elsewhere that this concept of PCC is farcical. Any any given day the "field", especially at a public course, can vary wildly in regard to capability which could result in more good or bad scores being posted on a given day regardless of "playing conditions". This explains how the PCC works. Note, the calculation is done by the system. No one needs to take any action other than posting a score.

FAQs - What is the Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC)? (usga.org)

For a more detailed explanation:

5.6 Playing Conditions Calculation (usga.org)
That’s even weirder then, cause you’d think there would be way more PCC adjustments
 

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That’s even weirder then, cause you’d think there would be way more PCC adjustments
I've only had three of them so far this year out of 78 total rounds, two -1s and a +1. I'm sure part of it is that our club is relatively small, and needing 8 golfers to post abnormally high or low scores to trigger it won't always happen.
 

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I must have missed something @Canadan, I thought everyone was using the World Handicap System now?
Yeah, it's effectively that. WHS logic under the GHIN umbrella - So I have a GHIN app that I put my scores in, who flows upward into the WHS logic.
 

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