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The Hard Sell

Nippon Shafts
BigDill

BigDill

2023 Morgan Cup - Team Hackers - Cobra Golf
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
18,567
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47,041
Location
Miami
Handicap
19.0
I went to a local and independent golf shop today to have my 4i and 5i p790s re-shafted from the TT DG120 s400s they currently have in them now to the stock DG105s s300s. I love the Dynamic Gold 120 shafts, but they were just too stout for these two long irons and I was having trouble getting them loaded and working. the 5i was traveling shorter than my 6i and always hooking hard, maybe 150 carry. The staff member who met me was a very nice and helpful. But we were talking a bit and he asked me what my handicap was. I replied that I am currently an 18 and change (hooray for me) and he almost immediately said that my p790s were basically blades made for a single digit handicapper, and that the shafts I had were way to heavy. All of this before he has even see me take a swing.

This threw me off a bit, but again, I want to stress that there was no malice or bad intention on his part, and I took no offense to our conversations. I think he was just trying to sell me a set of more game improvement style irons. I nicely stated that I was happy with my irons, and while they were perhaps a bit "aspirational" for my current game, that I have seen great results with my 6-PW with the 120s, and that after demoing the 4i and 5i with the 105s, I am sure I will love those too. He asked me to hit a few balls in the simulator with a 7 iron on a 95 gram recoil shaft. Long story short, we were basically at the same distance to one another, with my speed being a few mph quicker, and him being a bit straighter.

I came in as in informed consumer, knew exactly what I wanted, and asked for a specific service. My intent here is not to gripe, but more to ask....

Where is the line between being a good salesman or going for the hard sell?

I am interested to hear some opinions on this, because I am a bit conflicted as to whether I will go back to that store once I pick up my two (hopefully) re-shafted clubs.
 
I simply cannot believe anything that sales person said after they said the 790s were aspirational blades. An 18 (congrats by the way!) can absolutely play them all day.

I would not deal well with this kind of sales technique when I asked for something directly. There has to be something to providing quality service and having repeat customers when the time for new sales comes around.
 
I think since you were a well informed customer he should have got you set up with your request. He could of just let you know that other options might work better and let you know to come back if you ever wanted to try them. Building a rapport with you should of been his number one goal.

When I was buying irons earlier this year I went to a big store we have and was told the off the rack set was exactly what I needed. I decided to wait and glad I did. I went to a smaller local store and was fit into my set. Not even close to what the other store wanted to sell me. The sale is not the most important thing, customer service is. Enjoy the new shafts!
 
I don't care for when you go into a business and ask for something that you know you want, but they want to sell you on something else. Just do what I asked, nothing more nothing less.
 
I'm not sure I'd trust his opinion much when he offered somewhat-insulting advice without knowing anything more about you or your swing than your handicap. I probably wouldn't work with a guy who jumps to conclusions like that.

Also, when I got my 565s, I tested them against my SGI Big Bertha irons, and the 565s blew the BBs away in every category. And I'm a higher cap than you.
 
Doubleb21 said:
I think since you were a well informed customer he should have got you set up with your request. He could of just let you know that other options might work better and let you know to come back if you ever wanted to try them. Building a rapport with you should of been his number one goal.

When I was buying irons earlier this year I went to a big store we have and was told the off the rack set was exactly what I needed. I decided to wait and glad I did. I went to a smaller local store and was fit into my set. Not even close to what the other store wanted to sell me. The sale is not the most important thing, customer service is. Enjoy the new shafts!
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Exactly this. I get people thinking they are helping but sometimes what they think will help is just wrong.

suggestions aren't bad (but don't over suggest)

but pushing and being plain wrong..... i wouldn't be happy about that.
 
Higher handicaps can come from a variety of reasons (some of us spray the ball off the tee or can't putt or whatever else) so any assumptions on his part are meaningless. I wouldn't have enjoyed that treatment either. Maybe he could suggest something, but when he sees that you're not going for it, he should please the customer.
 
Ugh leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Once of the reasons I have a trusted club builder/fitter/instructor/retailer that I go and trust where they don’t try and hard sell me or push me to stuff that doesn’t work

Sorry you had to deal with it, but looks like you handled it well

That’s why you’re a Big Deal
 
Put me in the camp that says he should just sell you what you asked for. It's usually obvious when a customer knows what they want. When they do, it's the easiest sale you'll ever make. When they don't, then sell them whatever you want... well, you know, try to help them get what will help them.
 
Appreciate everyone’s responses so far, and I’m in general agreement with what everyone has said. I really didn’t take great offense to anything that happened, but like I said in my original post, it got me thinking about when a salesperson moves from helpful to detrimental. After all, we encounter salespeople all the time in our lives. Heck, even some of us here are sales people.

Personally, I like to be left alone while I browse through a store and then seek help when I need it. But these days, I can’t seem to even walk through a DSG without having someone ask me what I need help with. I actually recently walked out of a Bath and Body Works with my wife because we were asked no less than 5 times whether we needed help. I finally told the last person (loudly) that I was leaving because apparently I seemed unqualified to buy hand lotion.

So from what I have understood so far, it seems like most people are in the same boat as me by preferring to be left alone, and when needed, seek informed help. But the hard sell has to work sometimes, right? There has to be a reason for it. As the old saying goes....

268677ef5455eadabbb5686d13854703.jpg
 
BigDill said:
Appreciate everyone’s responses so far, and I’m in general agreement with what everyone has said. I really didn’t take great offense to anything that happened, but like I said in my original post, it got me thinking about when a salesperson moves from helpful to detrimental. After all, we encounter salespeople all the time in our lives. Heck, even some of us here are sales people.

Personally, I like to be left alone while I browse through a store and then seek help when I need it. But these days, I can’t seem to even walk through a DSG without having someone ask me what I need help with. I actually recently walked out of a Bath and Body Works with my wife because we were asked no less than 5 times whether we needed help. I finally told the last person (loudly) that I was leaving because apparently I seemed unqualified to buy hand lotion.
Click to expand...

To expand on your last comment, I get what your saying. But then you throw the scenario in "well I went in needing advice for something and I didn't even a f*ck you...nothing". Now, it would be different if the SAME person asked you 5 times if you needed help. I dunno, this is kind of a grey area here.

BUT, regarding your original post there is a way a "salesman" can get around suggesting something without making it offensive. What I see a lot is one goes "you need" rather than "maybe you should consider". Im only going off of your experience and what happened but coming out and saying they aren't for you right away is a bit bold without having data or information as to why beside just a handicap to go off of. If the conversation gets to the consumer that they are unsure of something then the saying I mentioned above would come in "maybe you should consider". But from what you said you went in with a specific purpose of wanting X and X is what you should of got.
 
Being a former sales associate and fitter, this guy kind of violated the #1 rule of just simply satisfying the needs of the customer with whatever service/product you have that they are looking for. 790s as basically blades threw me off, given their popularity and technology, and at that point I'd take the time to explain how I got my irons :angel:. After he saw you swing and all, and still proceeded to put on the sell of SGI irons, then I'd start getting a little perturbed. He's just doing his job and, although his approach is a little off, his intentions are to help you improve your game.


BTW, 18 and change is incredible!!! Keep up the good work, low teens are in your near future.
 
I generally prefer to be left alone when shopping.

I didn't really take his suggestions as a hard sell, but him trying to be helpful. Obviously there is more than one way to be helpful. Selling customers exactly what they want is one way. Showing customers other options that may suite them better is another. There's skill in knowing when to "help." His comments about the 790s would concern me and make me wonder how well he knows the products. Do sellers get incentives to sell certain clubs?
 
BigDill said:
I went to a local and independent golf shop today to have my 4i and 5i p790s re-shafted from the TT DG120 s400s they currently have in them now to the stock DG105s s300s. I love the Dynamic Gold 120 shafts, but they were just too stout for these two long irons and I was having trouble getting them loaded and working. the 5i was traveling shorter than my 6i and always hooking hard, maybe 150 carry. The staff member who met me was a very nice and helpful. But we were talking a bit and he asked me what my handicap was. I replied that I am currently an 18 and change (hooray for me) and he almost immediately said that my p790s were basically blades made for a single digit handicapper, and that the shafts I had were way to heavy. All of this before he has even see me take a swing.

This threw me off a bit, but again, I want to stress that there was no malice or bad intention on his part, and I took no offense to our conversations. I think he was just trying to sell me a set of more game improvement style irons. I nicely stated that I was happy with my irons, and while they were perhaps a bit "aspirational" for my current game, that I have seen great results with my 6-PW with the 120s, and that after demoing the 4i and 5i with the 105s, I am sure I will love those too. He asked me to hit a few balls in the simulator with a 7 iron on a 95 gram recoil shaft. Long story short, we were basically at the same distance to one another, with my speed being a few mph quicker, and him being a bit straighter.

I came in as in informed consumer, knew exactly what I wanted, and asked for a specific service. My intent here is not to gripe, but more to ask....

Where is the line between being a good salesman or going for the hard sell?

I am interested to hear some opinions on this, because I am a bit conflicted as to whether I will go back to that store once I pick up my two (hopefully) re-shafted clubs.
Click to expand...

Well, he is a ****** salesman. LOL

Blades? Good god dude.
 
Dang that's not the way to go about generating sales. It's one thing to ask a few open ended questions to ensure that the customer is being served correctly, but you rarely get a sale by going "oh those are way above your skill level, dude."

Luckily the club fitters in my area are super nice, and the club fitter at the box store in The City now knows me by sight and considers me an informed customer.

And congrats on the HC by the way - that's awesome!!
 
... You can't really blame the salesman for doing his job. The main problem is compared to most golf forum members, these sales guys are pretty ignorant. I agree P790's are basically made for single digit handicap players but that doesn't mean they can't be used by better ball striking mid or even some high index players. I have also heard more than a few call my P790's "Muscle Back Blades" with comments like "If I were a better player I would love to play blades like yours" or "You should look at some more forgiving irons because those blades are hard to hit". I stopped long ago arguing with salesmen and might occasionally educate them and some of them even appreciate the knowledge but an equal amount want to argue and I just move on instead of wasting my time.
 
Having worked in the golf industry and retail overall for 10+ years, I can't say I agree with his approach at all. If someone comes in and knows what they want, no questions asked, just do it and make them happy. Now, if the conversation moved into questions or a person looking for answers, have a conversation first before making recommendations.

Worked for a retail store part time who was really good at pushing for employees just trying to have a conversation first, be a sales person second. Their data showed that moving to that style of approach actually lead to more sales as people got comfortable and when you're comfortable, you tend to actually asks questions.

So, yeah I get where he was coming from, but I don't agree with it nor would I have expected one of my employees act in this manner when I was a manager.
 
2BFAST said:
Im only going off of your experience and what happened but coming out and saying they aren't for you right away is a bit bold without having data or information as to why beside just a handicap to go off of.
Click to expand...

That was the comment he made that made me post this thread. Obviously, that is the part that made me a bit agitated and worth posting on here. Otherwise, it would have been a run of the mill encounter. To me, that was the moment that bechase the "hard sell."

tpluff said:
Being a former sales associate and fitter, this guy kind of violated the #1 rule of just simply satisfying the needs of the customer with whatever service/product you have that they are looking for. 790s as basically blades threw me off, given their popularity and technology, and at that point I'd take the time to explain how I got my irons :angel:.
Click to expand...

Haha I did but very casually. I basically said that I got them from a true temper event and that the 120 shafts were recommended to me after some range time with multiple clubs by a member of true temper. I did not say it was Scott, but probably should have. I also reminded him that the 790s are hollow and filled with foam. I have not seen any blades like that, but then again, they do have some odd things in foreign markets so I guess you never know. :bananadance:
 
Interesting turn of events here now that my clubs were picked up. To recap, I dropped off a 4i and 5i consisting of p790 heads, DG 120 shafts, and Grey MCC+4 grips, and two brand new tapered DG 105 raw shafts in the proper length. I asked them to please pull the heads from the 120s, reinstall the heads on the 105s, and to put two new grey MCC+4 grips, which I would pay for. I called today and my clubs were ready, and I sent my assistant to pick them up because I am just slammed at work today.

What I assumed I would get back would be two 120 shafts with no heads and with the grips, and two complete 4 and 5 irons with 105 shafts and brand new grips. What I paid for was 2 shaft pulls and reinstalls, and two MCC+4 grips. What I actually got back was two complete clubs as requested (8/10 quality job) and two 120 shafts with no grips. :question:

So, it seems like I am two grips short. I called the shop and after waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that they had to remove the grips to pull the shafts. I told them that was not at all correct, but hey, its their shop so whatever, Ill eat the $30 in grips. He told me that the installer could explain it to me, and I said sure, because at this point why not. He told me the same, that the grips had to be removed to pull the head due to the fact that if all of the old epoxy is not removed from the old shafts, then they will rattle when hit. I again stated my disagreement, that it made no sense because the old shafts are not in use, and the new shafts were brand new, but told him that it was no problem. He transferred me tot he owner, who then went through the entire story again, and when I asked him to please explain how old epoxy would get into my new shafts, he finally understood the process and agreed that i was shorted two grips, that he would replace for me. :banghead:

The kicker is that he told me to swing by and he would make it right (presumably by giving me two MCC+4s) and that he could fit me for a new set of clubs if I wanted :at-wits-end: I told him that regardless of what he may have heard about my handicap, I am very happy with my 790s and will continue to play them, and that at this point, he can keep the grips and that it wasn't worth my time to go back. He realized that I was offended by now, so he game me his personal cell number and told me to call him before stopping by, and again that he would "make it right." I will not be going back.
 
Wow.... that was a mess up. From the push to the grips.

I get trying to get a sell, but when the customer asks for something specific just make the sale.

Can I ask why you agreed to try some clubs if you had the materials already?
 
Sure. Because I will hit basically anything someone puts in my hand in a simulator. Worst case, I hit some golf balls. Best case, I find something awesome. If its free to me, why not, right?
 
I’ll agree to disagree with everyone. You should have walked out with a new set of Cleveland HB’s and dropped you cap to a 10. Why make the game harder than it has to be?

Just kidding.
As a 10 cap slower swinger I have no business playing an M3 driver but I hit it as long as anything and for the first time ever I’m over 60% fir (73% with it).

Play whuteva you want.
 
BigDill said:
I went to a local and independent golf shop today to have my 4i and 5i p790s re-shafted from the TT DG120 s400s they currently have in them now to the stock DG105s s300s. I love the Dynamic Gold 120 shafts, but they were just too stout for these two long irons and I was having trouble getting them loaded and working. the 5i was traveling shorter than my 6i and always hooking hard, maybe 150 carry. The staff member who met me was a very nice and helpful. But we were talking a bit and he asked me what my handicap was. I replied that I am currently an 18 and change (hooray for me) and he almost immediately said that my p790s were basically blades made for a single digit handicapper, and that the shafts I had were way to heavy. All of this before he has even see me take a swing.

This threw me off a bit, but again, I want to stress that there was no malice or bad intention on his part, and I took no offense to our conversations. I think he was just trying to sell me a set of more game improvement style irons. I nicely stated that I was happy with my irons, and while they were perhaps a bit "aspirational" for my current game, that I have seen great results with my 6-PW with the 120s, and that after demoing the 4i and 5i with the 105s, I am sure I will love those too. He asked me to hit a few balls in the simulator with a 7 iron on a 95 gram recoil shaft. Long story short, we were basically at the same distance to one another, with my speed being a few mph quicker, and him being a bit straighter.

I came in as in informed consumer, knew exactly what I wanted, and asked for a specific service. My intent here is not to gripe, but more to ask....

Where is the line between being a good salesman or going for the hard sell?

I am interested to hear some opinions on this, because I am a bit conflicted as to whether I will go back to that store once I pick up my two (hopefully) re-shafted clubs.
Click to expand...

I would agree with the sales guy


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BigDill said:
Interesting turn of events here now that my clubs were picked up. To recap, I dropped off a 4i and 5i consisting of p790 heads, DG 120 shafts, and Grey MCC+4 grips, and two brand new tapered DG 105 raw shafts in the proper length. I asked them to please pull the heads from the 120s, reinstall the heads on the 105s, and to put two new grey MCC+4 grips, which I would pay for. I called today and my clubs were ready, and I sent my assistant to pick them up because I am just slammed at work today.

What I assumed I would get back would be two 120 shafts with no heads and with the grips, and two complete 4 and 5 irons with 105 shafts and brand new grips. What I paid for was 2 shaft pulls and reinstalls, and two MCC+4 grips. What I actually got back was two complete clubs as requested (8/10 quality job) and two 120 shafts with no grips. :question:

So, it seems like I am two grips short. I called the shop and after waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that they had to remove the grips to pull the shafts. I told them that was not at all correct, but hey, its their shop so whatever, Ill eat the $30 in grips. He told me that the installer could explain it to me, and I said sure, because at this point why not. He told me the same, that the grips had to be removed to pull the head due to the fact that if all of the old epoxy is not removed from the old shafts, then they will rattle when hit. I again stated my disagreement, that it made no sense because the old shafts are not in use, and the new shafts were brand new, but told him that it was no problem. He transferred me tot he owner, who then went through the entire story again, and when I asked him to please explain how old epoxy would get into my new shafts, he finally understood the process and agreed that i was shorted two grips, that he would replace for me. :banghead:

The kicker is that he told me to swing by and he would make it right (presumably by giving me two MCC+4s) and that he could fit me for a new set of clubs if I wanted :at-wits-end: I told him that regardless of what he may have heard about my handicap, I am very happy with my 790s and will continue to play them, and that at this point, he can keep the grips and that it wasn't worth my time to go back. He realized that I was offended by now, so he game me his personal cell number and told me to call him before stopping by, and again that he would "make it right." I will not be going back.
Click to expand...

How are 2 grips $30??? I have never seen a $15 grip, color me confused


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sposey013168 said:
How are 2 grips $30??? I have never seen a $15 grip, color me confused


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Click to expand...

He charged me $13.99 plus tax for each grip per my receipt. Total for the grips was $29.93. DSG has them for $11.40 plus tax.
 
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