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Tiger Woods and Foley

Tiger has so much talent that he will figure it out, just as Phil figured out his putting stroke last weekend.
 
His swing looks good and it's not like he's missing cuts. Perhaps he's had to make accommodations due to his knee surgeries? He's also missing putts he used to make on a regular basis.
 
What ever interview Tiger said he could practice with out rehab says it all to me. Putting comes and goes. Tiger's can't miss time will start again.
 
JB said:
Like I said, Im not saying personally its good or bad, just that I have heard over and over from actual tour players different thoughts. You heard the same from 2 of them.
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JB, I have a question and it is more philosophical rather than being about TW. Since you asked Chunky the question, it got me to thinking, whose opinion on the swing can we trust? I assume you are saying 10 PGA players say his swing is not great, but do they know more than TW? Would their swing beat his? Who is the definitive judge on these things, to say whether or not its good, I'm curious.
 
ripper said:
JB, I have a question and it is more philosophical rather than being about TW. Since you asked Chunky the question, it got me to thinking, whose opinion on the swing can we trust? I assume you are saying 10 PGA players say his swing is not great, but do they know more than TW? Would their swing beat his? Who is the definitive judge on these things, to say whether or not its good, I'm curious.
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I thought the same thing! I'll be anxious to see his answer as well.

For me I would be more apt to trust a reputable instructor than a Tour player.
 
ripper said:
JB, I have a question and it is more philosophical rather than being about TW. Since you asked Chunky the question, it got me to thinking, whose opinion on the swing can we trust? I assume you are saying 10 PGA players say his swing is not great, but do they know more than TW? Would their swing beat his? Who is the definitive judge on these things, to say whether or not its good, I'm curious.
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Again, Im not talking about the Tiger Woods swing. Im talking about the Sean Foley swing he teaches. Where was the outcry about his wonderful philosophies when he was working with O'Hair and Mahan (one of which left)? I base everything about the swing around what we hear from those better (meaning tour players & other teachers). its not something conjured up as the other two MC captains heard the exact same thing from two different tour players. This is not about Tiger Woods and just as much about Mahan and the others that work with Foley. It just seems that some get very upset as if someone is knocking Tiger Woods. My thoughts on the swing have nothing to do with Tiger Woods and frankly I said the same thing long before Foley and Woods hooked up.
 
ripper said:
JB, I have a question and it is more philosophical rather than being about TW. Since you asked Chunky the question, it got me to thinking, whose opinion on the swing can we trust? I assume you are saying 10 PGA players say his swing is not great, but do they know more than TW? Would their swing beat his? Who is the definitive judge on these things, to say whether or not its good, I'm curious.
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I can tell you that the LPGA Players that were talking to us about it have it as more of a philosophical thing. Nothing to do with Tiger really, just more about the swing itself.
 
Can't putt under pressure. Ask Hogan, Miller, Snead, Yancy, and a clubhouse full of other great champions what that's like. For many, once it goes, it doesn't come back. Hogan literally could not draw the putter back near the end of his career. Tiger has had some days where he burns the hole, but his touch has not been good. He was atrocious last Sunday. Terrible.

Kevin
 
Given the level of skill that Tiger (and for that matter most tour players) have how much influence does the swing really have? There are many swings on tour that don't look great, but are mightily effective (anyone remember Jim Thorpe?)

I have heard many many times people say that golf is 90% mental, and the rest of it is in your head.

He spent the most part of his life believing (and being told) that he could do anything he wanted (it started just with golf and then seems to have progressed to the ladies as well), when he got caught it must have had a dramatic effect on his confidence (oh crap, I can't do what I want), and if your not confident about yourself, how can you be confident of making a 10ft put, you don't really stand a chance.
 
Who does it take to state whether the Foley swing is good or not to get confirmation? Is Butch going to tell the world that it is a great swing? Is Haney? Probably not, as it would go against what they teach, correct? I think that he has won a limited field tournament and in contention in the last 3 events tells me it seems to be a pretty good swing and it is more mental for him not winning. Some of the putts he has been missing on Sunday should be a gimme to a tour pro and he is consistently missing them. I think as soon as he does eventually win a full field event this may turn around for him, but we all know how hard it is to get a monkey off your back. I personally think if he wins soon in a very convincing manner, it will turn his mental game around and maybe get him back on track to the Tiger we have seen before, or maybe not. But whether or not he wins or doesn't win, about every tour player out there right now would take that swing if it got them in the same position starting on Sunday it has gotten Tiger over the last 4 events he has played I would bet.
 
Vegan702 said:
Who does it take to state whether the Foley swing is good or not to get confirmation? Is Butch going to tell the world that it is a great swing? Is Haney? Probably not, as it would go against what they teach, correct? I think that he has won a limited field tournament and in contention in the last 3 events tells me it seems to be a pretty good swing and it is more mental for him not winning. Some of the putts he has been missing on Sunday should be a gimme to a tour pro and he is consistently missing them. I think as soon as he does eventually win a full field event this may turn around for him, but we all know how hard it is to get a monkey off your back. I personally think if he wins soon in a very convincing manner, it will turn his mental game around and maybe get him back on track to the Tiger we have seen before, or maybe not. But whether or not he wins or doesn't win, about every tour player out there right now would take that swing if it got them in the same position starting on Sunday it has gotten Tiger over the last 4 events he has played I would bet.
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I think that Tiger is gone for good. He has lost the mental edge he had over everyone else. I just don't see anyone wilting anymore just because he is in contention. I hope he gets back to winning consistently though.
 
Chunkylover77 said:
I think that Tiger is gone for good. He has lost the mental edge he had over everyone else. I just don't see anyone wilting anymore just because he is in contention. I hope he gets back to winning consistently though.
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I could not agree more. He even had a chance to put that mental edge back with a strong showing but failed to show up. I thought he was gaining his edge back but I have my doubts now.
 
JB said:
Im not really debating his game, because I agree, but Im curious where everybody came up with the idea that the Foley swing is a good swing from. Whether it is or isnt, is not for me to judge, Im just curious. Was it just because he has a few pros he teaches and TW chose him that it makes it a good swing?
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I like the swing b/c it takes the hands out of the swing. All you gotta do is unwind and let the outside follow the inside. It also allows you to work the ball both ways while making the same exact swing by adjusting your set up angles/clubface. Granted all that is very hard to get down.

I like it better than a Mickleson type swing where they flip it and sometimes have the misses over in the 2nd row of condos. (obv not saying Phil's swing is bad, its just a different release)

^^^^IMO^^^:act-up:
 
MarcH said:
I like the swing b/c it takes the hands out of the swing. All you gotta do is unwind and let the outside follow the inside. It also allows you to work the ball both ways while making the same exact swing by adjusting your set up angles/clubface. Granted all that is very hard to get down.

I like it better than a Mickleson type swing where they flip it and sometimes have the misses over in the 2nd row of condos. (obv not saying Phil's swing is bad, its just a different release)

^^^^IMO^^^:act-up:
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Marc correct me if I'm wrong, and I usually am, but Foleys swing has a lot of similarities to slicefixer correct?
 
Chunkylover77 said:
Marc correct me if I'm wrong, and I usually am, but Foleys swing has a lot of similarities to slicefixer correct?
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Yes. So of course I'd be a fan of it lol.
 
MarcH said:
Yes. So of course I'd be a fan of it lol.
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That is what I thought. Do you know what the differences are? To me it looks the same
 
MarcH said:
I like the swing b/c it takes the hands out of the swing. All you gotta do is unwind and let the outside follow the inside. It also allows you to work the ball both ways while making the same exact swing by adjusting your set up angles/clubface. Granted all that is very hard to get down.

I like it better than a Mickleson type swing where they flip it and sometimes have the misses over in the 2nd row of condos. (obv not saying Phil's swing is bad, its just a different release)

^^^^IMO^^^:act-up:
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This can actually be done with many different swing approaches.
The ironic part of your post is, that Mahan got a win last year by hitting one so far off line he got a free drop.
Missing can also happen with any swing in my opinion.
 
JB said:
The ironic part of your post is, that Mahan got a win last year by hitting one so far off line he got a free drop. Missing can also happen with any swing in my opinion.
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He just had a malfunction. lol Ok you got me, I just think the release makes for smaller misses overall.
 
Just my opinions, so don't kill me!

When you talk about different swing styles, I'm not sure you can crown one as the best. More like, which one misses less often and less erratically. No swing will ever be perfect for every swing (outside of a robots), but there are some styles that definitely miss less often than others. Also, aren't some golfers more gifted in their ability to do things than others? Maybe Tiger can do things with Foley that Mahan/O Hair just can't do...

I am definitely not an expert on what to look for in the techniques of swings, but am always interested in hearing how people analyze them. Wayne DeFrancesco is one of my favorite analysts. If you watch his videos (which are long and probably very dull to a lot of people), he goes through all the details of many different players' swings, including Tiger's (multiple times). note: Wayne is also very against everything the "guys on TV" talk about when analyzing during live broadcasts.

It seems to me that Tiger's swing now is as good as ever but his putting is no where near as clutch. He's been playing well for 3 days out of 4. It feels like it can't be anything but a mental failure to not be able to play well 4 days in a row. Isn't that why other player's choke on Sundays? Multiple shot leads crumbling and shooting over par when in the lead is all mental for those other guys...
 
im pretty sure he can swing a golf club, have you seen the guy he must lift a bit of wieght in the gym, lets be honest the golf swing is not that physical. brett favre played a high contact sport for a long time, tiger walks and swings, please. he can do the butch swing he just doesnt go back cause hes very stuburn man tiger is, they fell out. his knee i think could be a problem of dare i say it, drugs back in the day he was mega ripped, things with his doctor and injuries just seem to me he was using something. he is fit and healthy now and not using anything the way it looks there is no reason he cant swing it like he did.
 
cooljiain said:
im pretty sure he can swing a golf club, have you seen the guy he must lift a bit of wieght in the gym, lets be honest the golf swing is not that physical. brett favre played a high contact sport for a long time, tiger walks and swings, please. he can do the butch swing he just doesnt go back cause hes very stuburn man tiger is, they fell out. his knee i think could be a problem of dare i say it, drugs back in the day he was mega ripped, things with his doctor and injuries just seem to me he was using something. he is fit and healthy now and not using anything the way it looks there is no reason he cant swing it like he did.
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I honestly don't know what you are saying here. Are you saying he was more ripped back under Butch? The knee is a big time problem if he were to go back to Butch. Just being physically fit doesn't change the fact that he has knee issues
 
people saying foley is good, why? lets have a look at his players results in majors when you have to play all shots and play real golf and not the regular pga course with wide fairways and huge greens. the results are shocking to say the least. the problem with foley weight is all left which doesnt allow the high soft ball with longer clubs, also hes getting so steep with everything whihc i dont understand. basically the swing works and hes hitting the ball crisper but he cant hit all the shots he used too and shape ball both ways high and low and use feel, if you take natural ability and feel out the game then you wont do that well. foley teaches all his players one swing fits all, thats wrong cause biometrics of the body of a 6ft 5 man to a 5ft 7 man are differant, crazy! foley is too mechanical which means less thought and feel and creativity on course, sucking the natural ability out of tiger woods in my opinion. and wasnt justin rose european order of merit winner before foley too? so rose has dipped since foley too.
 
cooljiain said:
im pretty sure he can swing a golf club, have you seen the guy he must lift a bit of wieght in the gym, lets be honest the golf swing is not that physical. brett favre played a high contact sport for a long time, tiger walks and swings, please. he can do the butch swing he just doesnt go back cause hes very stuburn man tiger is, they fell out. his knee i think could be a problem of dare i say it, drugs back in the day he was mega ripped, things with his doctor and injuries just seem to me he was using something. he is fit and healthy now and not using anything the way it looks there is no reason he cant swing it like he did.
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^^^
I disagree strongly with that post. The swing is quite physical and takes a major toll on the body over time. You are throwing things out that have no factual basis whatsoever.
 
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