NVGOLFER80

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Well doctors don't love knocking someone out for surgery or pumping them full of chemicals without knowing what's already in their system, so I'm sure there's labs on it. The question would be if the police have a right/cause to that information, I would think.
yeah. That is my line of thinking. I would think they would. Major injury. Public damage, rental car damage. Insurance involved.. I am very ignorant to much of this but seems that all the boxes are checked that blood work is getting done as part of an investigation.
 

Bernoulli

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Well doctors don't love knocking someone out for surgery or pumping them full of chemicals without knowing what's already in their system, so I'm sure there's labs on it. The question would be if the police have a right/cause to that information, I would think.
No. Blood drawn for diagnostic purposes cannot be used as evidence.
 

Snowman

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honest question as you have me curious. In a vehicle accident like this. Would some kind of blood toxicity test be done no matter what?

There is going to be a police investigation and report? I would think that would be part of the investigation. I would think Tiger if sober would want that test done if nothing else to clear up speculation.
A forensic toxicology test won't be done unless the investigating officer/deputy suspects impairment. If he does, he will place the driver under arrest for DUI (which applies to drugs and/or alcohol), and have a blood sample drawn, he will articulate how he formed the opinion of impairment in his investigation, and the collision will be coded as DUI PCF (Driving Under the Influence - Primary Collision Factor), with any other contributing factor(s) coded as OAF (Other Associated Factor). If the blood sample comes back negative, the DUI charge will be dropped and the investigator's report will be amended to reflect that and another PCF will be assigned (usually the primary OAF).

As an example of the above, taking a collision similar to this one (not talking about this collision in particular) - if the investigating officer suspects impairment, the driver would be placed under arrest, a blood sample would be drawn, and the collision would be coded 23152(f) CVC (Driving Under the Influence of Drugs), with an OAF of probably either 22350 CVC (Unsafe Speed for Conditions) or 22107 CVC (Unsafe Turning Movement), depending on the investigator's opinion. If the toxicology test came back negative, the investigation would be amended to reflect 22350 or 22107 as the PCF, and the DUI charge would be deleted.

Yes, there will be an investigation completed and a report written. Determining impairment is part of that investigation. If the officer/deputy feels they do not have any evidence of impairment, no toxicology screening will be done. He can't legally obtain a sample without placing the person under arrest. The manner in which the collision occurred can certainly be part of determining impairment - sometimes it may be all you have - but that's the officer/deputy's determination to make at the scene, and no two scenes are the same.

If Tiger (or any other driver involved in a collision, for that matter) wanted a blood test taken, he could certainly request it. If he was arrested, the officer would be legally obligated to have it done - if he was not arrested, the officer would be under no legal obligation but Tiger/the driver could arrange to have a sample drawn by a forensic toxicologist/phlebotomist at their own request.

As an aside (@OldandStiff), hospitals do tox screens as part of their blood tests - but they're next to impossible for law enforcement to obtain, and there are procedural and evidentiary chain of custody issues involved which make things very complicated from a legal standpoint.
 

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Saying it's awful and wishing him well is one thing, mini stroke, blackout and excessive speed is another. When it comes out what actually happened, that's the time to discuss it.
Correct. As someone that due to his own error almost killed himself on 09/17/19 at 3:40pm, driver error happens. I almost certainly had driven over a million miles accident free prior to this. One second of not paying attention and you’re done. I’d worked 25 of the last 34 hours.

I zoned out for a second or so and driving into the sun I didn’t see the brake lights in front until too late to even hit the brakes.

A million reasons can cause an accident. I’ll side with the police and fire on scene. If there is no evidence of him being impaired, best let that sit.

Those folks know. I wasn’t tested at all even though I invited the Statie investigating to test whatever she’d like, it never was. You know why? Even though I was in shock, broke my leg getting out of my car (and didn’t know it-shock is a helluva a drug, but I don’t recommend it), I didn’t seem impaired to the EMT’s and since I wasn’t other than sleep deprived, it was never pushed.

Like I said those folks know who’s f’ed and in what way. I was the staring down the reaper f’ed, not the joyriding all f’ed up type.
 

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Tiger was beating the 💩 out of that loner like it was stolen, it sounds like. They reported he was speeding.
 

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No. Blood drawn for diagnostic purposes cannot be used as evidence.
Seconded. My above reference was also helped in that I was dying and the doctors wouldn’t let the Trooper in to ticket me.

There were no good blood draws. Not that I was hiding anything but nothing the state could have used if they wanted.

Honestly me only almost killing myself and me only probably helped a lot in it not being a bigger problem.
 

NVGOLFER80

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A forensic toxicology test won't be done unless the investigating officer/deputy suspects impairment. If he does, he will place the driver under arrest for DUI (which applies to drugs and/or alcohol), and have a blood sample drawn, he will articulate how he formed the opinion of impairment in his investigation, and the collision will be coded as DUI PCF (Driving Under the Influence - Primary Collision Factor), with any other contributing factor(s) coded as OAF (Other Associated Factor). If the blood sample comes back negative, the DUI charge will be dropped and the investigator's report will be amended to reflect that and another PCF will be assigned (usually the primary OAF).

As an example of the above, taking a collision similar to this one (not talking about this collision in particular) - if the investigating officer suspects impairment, the driver would be placed under arrest, a blood sample would be drawn, and the collision would be coded 23152(f) CVC (Driving Under the Influence of Drugs), with an OAF of probably either 22350 CVC (Unsafe Speed for Conditions) or 22107 CVC (Unsafe Turning Movement), depending on the investigator's opinion. If the toxicology test came back negative, the investigation would be amended to reflect 22350 or 22107 as the PCF, and the DUI charge would be deleted.

Yes, there will be an investigation completed and a report written. Determining impairment is part of that investigation. If the officer/deputy feels they do not have any evidence of impairment, no toxicology screening will be done. He can't legally obtain a sample without placing the person under arrest. The manner in which the collision occurred can certainly be part of determining impairment - sometimes it may be all you have - but that's the officer/deputy's determination to make at the scene, and no two scenes are the same.

If Tiger (or any other driver involved in a collision, for that matter) wanted a blood test taken, he could certainly request it. If he was arrested, the officer would be legally obligated to have it done - if he was not arrested, the officer would be under no legal obligation but Tiger/the driver could arrange to have a sample drawn by a forensic toxicologist/phlebotomist at their own request.

As an aside (@OldandStiff), hospitals do tox screens as part of their blood tests - but they're next to impossible for law enforcement to obtain, and there are procedural and evidentiary chain of custody issues involved which make things very complicated from a legal standpoint.
Thank you for this explanation. It makes complete sense.. I am sure this is more than you wanted to get into but it is good info.
 

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This sucks, hopefully the fracture doesn't go the way of Alex Smith. Shattered ankle is probably worse golf wise especially the left one. I am holding out hope we see him playing in 2022. Betting against him is bad business. Worst part is he will need painkillers now and that can end bad in the long run. If he can live a decent life after this with no painkillers taken in the long run that is a good result, pro golf or no pro golf. I selfishly want him to play again though.

Not going to rag on a guy if he was just tired and speeding to get there in time. I have done it way too often, glass houses and all.
 

Duffer Seamus

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Coming into the turn too fast, overcorrecting, hitting the median. Median impact causes airbags to deploy, obscuring vision for even the half a second it's a full bag. Driver flinches, hits gas pedal by mistake, goes for a tumble down a hill.
That's as reasonable a suspicion as anything else.

Hope he gets well soon, but, coupled with his back problems and his age, I suspect he won't be playing competitively any longer.
 

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Could be anything really. Dropped drink, texting, heard his phone ring asking where he was. Not sure falling asleep while speeding on a road like that is likely as I find that keeps you awake. Now not speeding then falling asleep and hitting might be more accurate.
 

Snowman

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Seconded. My above reference was also helped in that I was dying and the doctors wouldn’t let the Trooper in to ticket me.

There were no good blood draws. Not that I was hiding anything but nothing the state could have used if they wanted.

Honestly me only almost killing myself and me only probably helped a lot in it not being a bigger problem.
You're most likely correct. If somebody else besides the errant driver is seriously injured or killed, it's a lot more likely that DUI will be charged and a sample taken if there's any indication whatsoever that impairment/intox may have been a factor. Firstly, injuries/death to another person elevates DUI (a misdemeanor) to a felony (DUI causing injury/death at a minimum, manslaughter or murder at a maximum). Secondly, you can always amend/drop charges after the fact, but if you don't gather that evidence immediately, it's gone forever. That's just due diligence.
 

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A forensic toxicology test won't be done unless the investigating officer/deputy suspects impairment. If he does, he will place the driver under arrest for DUI (which applies to drugs and/or alcohol), and have a blood sample drawn, he will articulate how he formed the opinion of impairment in his investigation, and the collision will be coded as DUI PCF (Driving Under the Influence - Primary Collision Factor), with any other contributing factor(s) coded as OAF (Other Associated Factor). If the blood sample comes back negative, the DUI charge will be dropped and the investigator's report will be amended to reflect that and another PCF will be assigned (usually the primary OAF).

As an example of the above, taking a collision similar to this one (not talking about this collision in particular) - if the investigating officer suspects impairment, the driver would be placed under arrest, a blood sample would be drawn, and the collision would be coded 23152(f) CVC (Driving Under the Influence of Drugs), with an OAF of probably either 22350 CVC (Unsafe Speed for Conditions) or 22107 CVC (Unsafe Turning Movement), depending on the investigator's opinion. If the toxicology test came back negative, the investigation would be amended to reflect 22350 or 22107 as the PCF, and the DUI charge would be deleted.

Yes, there will be an investigation completed and a report written. Determining impairment is part of that investigation. If the officer/deputy feels they do not have any evidence of impairment, no toxicology screening will be done. He can't legally obtain a sample without placing the person under arrest. The manner in which the collision occurred can certainly be part of determining impairment - sometimes it may be all you have - but that's the officer/deputy's determination to make at the scene, and no two scenes are the same.

If Tiger (or any other driver involved in a collision, for that matter) wanted a blood test taken, he could certainly request it. If he was arrested, the officer would be legally obligated to have it done - if he was not arrested, the officer would be under no legal obligation but Tiger/the driver could arrange to have a sample drawn by a forensic toxicologist/phlebotomist at their own request.

As an aside (@OldandStiff), hospitals do tox screens as part of their blood tests - but they're next to impossible for law enforcement to obtain, and there are procedural and evidentiary chain of custody issues involved which make things very complicated from a legal standpoint.
I know you dress funny now, but you ain’t bad. 😂

Well written. Easily explained. Probably why I wasn’t tested (I would have been fine). The EMT’s basically told the Statie to go away this guys going to croak.

Backed me in and put me in their trauma bay-starting to think my day was going to suck-I was right!

40ish Doc’s, CNP’s and all form of other medical folks rained upon me. From the time I hit their dock until I was going under for surgery was less than 20 minutes, probably closer to 10. I got in the room and they already had the portable X-ray set up. Sternal fracture was the big one and I later learned I had less than a 30% chance to survive it, hence the rush. I was ran to a CT scan down the hall.

Ran back. By the time I was back the doc told me sorry no time for niceties he needed to get me open, then there and now. So he cut into my femoral without any benefit (wasn’t the worst thing that day, ugh) and inserted a line.

15 hours later I woke up alive. Barely.

So I feel you TW! Godspeed brother.
 

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You're most likely correct. If somebody else besides the errant driver is seriously injured or killed, it's a lot more likely that DUI will be charged and a sample taken if there's any indication whatsoever that impairment/intox may have been a factor. Firstly, injuries/death to another person elevates DUI (a misdemeanor) to a felony (DUI causing injury/death at a minimum, manslaughter or murder at a maximum). Secondly, you can always amend/drop charges after the fact, but if you don't gather that evidence immediately, it's gone forever. That's just due diligence.
I prefer to almost die than fight charges in court.

So long as it stays “almost”.

No there wasn’t anything other than a tired guy driving there. I just felt like it would have been looked into much more had anyone other than me almost died. It almost felt half assed when the Statie showed up (6 days into my hospital stay) to just give me a standard ticket. I thought for sure there’d be blood and stuff reports to discuss. Nope.

I wasn’t impaired other than sleep deprivation. I just found it interesting that they had a guy that almost croaked admitting to zoning out and nothing was tested. Probably nothing usable as I was almost immediately in surgery, but still.
 

Snowman

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I prefer to almost die than fight charges in court.

So long as it stays “almost”.

No there wasn’t anything other than a tired guy driving there. I just felt like it would have been looked into much more had anyone other than me almost died. It almost felt half assed when the Statie showed up (6 days into my hospital stay) to just give me a standard ticket. I thought for sure there’d be blood and stuff reports to discuss. Nope.

I wasn’t impaired other than sleep deprivation. I just found it interesting that they had a guy that almost croaked admitting to zoning out and nothing was tested. Probably nothing usable as I was almost immediately in surgery, but still.
I can't speak to other states, but our lab techs could (and did) scrub up and go into operating rooms to draw blood, they had all the bonafides to do it. The investigating officer had nothing to do with it - you just sat there in the hospital, started on your mountain of paperwork and maybe scrounged up a cup of coffee until the lab tech came back and handed you the blood tubes.

Man, coming back 6 days later and handing you a ticket while you were still in the hospital is savage. We recommended charges in our investigations and the District Attorney's Office handled it all from there.
 

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True. But to be fair to Tiger, there is a mountain of difference between 36 and 45 years old, from a recovery and longevity standpoint. Especially given his history of injury.

I just hope the poor guy can walk.
True. But to be fair to Tiger, there is a mountain of difference between 36 and 45 years old, from a recovery and longevity standpoint. Especially given his history of injury.

I just hope the poor guy can walk.
This. And Hogan didn’t have a jacked up back either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Snowman

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I'm not much of a medic guy so I'll defer to the experts on this one, but all we've heard so far is "severe leg injuries" - we don't know yet if they're talking tib/fib or femur. Could make a difference in the long-term prognosis, yes?
 

MWard

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I'm not much of a medic guy so I'll defer to the experts on this one, but all we've heard so far is "severe leg injuries" - we don't know yet if they're talking tib/fib or femur. Could make a difference in the long-term prognosis, yes?
If what ESPN said is true, compound fracture of the tibia and fibula. Shattered ankle. Whatever big cat, you don’t need that leg.
 

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I can't speak to other states, but our lab techs could (and did) scrub up and go into operating rooms to draw blood, they had all the bonafides to do it. The investigating officer had nothing to do with it - you just sat there in the hospital, started on your mountain of paperwork and maybe scrounged up a cup of coffee until the lab tech came back and handed you the blood tubes.

Man, coming back 6 days later and handing you a ticket while you were still in the hospital is savage. We recommended charges in our investigations and the District Attorney's Office handled it all from there.
Naaa. I was much better with a “fail to yield” than DA’s office stuff. Pay my $150 (surgeon alone charged 78k, lol) waiver and all is good.

I’ll take that as a win. Only issue I had, I had to explain why I chucked my CCW into the trunk. I told her I didn’t know how much longer I was going to be awake or alive and tried to secure it as best I could. I don’t even hardly recall doing it. Lizard brain, lol. A witness saw me do so, otherwise I don’t really recall? I think I knew how close I was to going out and secured it the best I knew how.

Just a response I guess. At least I didn’t chuck it into the swamp (all 14ft I could have likely thrown anything) and leave them really wondering?
 

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If what ESPN said is true, compound fracture of the tibia and fibula. Shattered ankle. Whatever big cat, you don’t need that leg.
F man and excuse and edit that if you need. That’s done. That’s just done material.He wins again it’ll be a miracle.

I hit that in 09/19.

I may be me. Heck I’m even better looking. But I won’t ever be -6 again.

Different levels and you can be messed up for life. I’ve fought my swing for 2 years.

Naaa. No more. Reinventing it for the last damn time until I can’t touch 100 with driver. Easy swing thought, straight back-straight through!

See you in a couple years left side, I don’t need to go there yet!
 

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One leg has a shattered ankle and the other has two compound fractures. Tibia and fibula

that’s absolutely awful.

 

MWard

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One leg has a shattered ankle and the other has two compound fractures. Tibia and fibula

that’s absolutely awful.

Question is, where is the compound break? Near the joint or higher up? The latter is brutal but easier to recover from. The joint is an uh oh. Ankle.. Eh whatever those aren’t important.
 

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Seems it’s all right leg based on the very well timed tweet before bed.
 

RealPretendPsychic

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Tiger’s team put this out.
1614145347105.png
 

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Thanks for taking the time to read the California Vehicle Code (I presume) as to implied consent.

I would think that the words that I highlighted (if lawfully arrested) in the excerpt you provided are important. Need to be lawfully arrested for implied consent to apply.
sort of a strange way to lay things out
people don't consent to be arrested in the first place, and most would dispute any claims of wrongdoing no matter what in the majority of cases.
Yet there is "implied consent" to blood testing. "I am arresting you because you got in an accident and i don't think a sober person could ever drive this badly, therefore YOU ARE AGREEING to let me extract and test your blood"

It's forced sampling and testing, nothing less.
 

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sort of a strange way to lay things out
people don't consent to be arrested in the first place, and most would dispute any claims of wrongdoing no matter what in the majority of cases.
Yet there is "implied consent" to blood testing. "I am arresting you because you got in an accident and i don't think a sober person could ever drive this badly, therefore YOU ARE AGREEING to let me extract and test your blood"

It's forced sampling and testing, nothing less.
To be able to take blood, law enforcement has to have probable cause of impairment during a crash. Here in Oregon, if officer has PC of impairment, suspect is at hospital, then the officer can get a blood sample based on exigency (blood alcohol or drugs leave rapidly). Then a warrant would be completed to see the results. Implied consent does not come into play in Oregon for these situations. All states are different but similar, especially if you under the same Federal Appellate court
 

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