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Tiger Woods in Car Crash

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Bernoulli said:
I would be interested in what was the probable cause alleged in the affidavit for the search warrant for the black box. Reckless driving? But, nothing as far as impairment to give pc for a blood draw?
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As I understand it, a search warrant can be issued even for fairly minor traffic violations, such as speeding. I know of the term “black box,” but have always heard of it with respect to airplane crashes. I didn’t even realize that our vehicles had a black box that was recording what is going on with our cars. Man, everything seems to be recorded nowadays.
 
Tenputt said:
As I understand it, a search warrant can be issued even for fairly minor traffic violations, such as speeding. I know of the term “black box,” but have always heard of it with respect to airplane crashes. I didn’t even realize that our vehicles had a black box that was recording what is going on with our cars. Man, everything seems to be recorded nowadays.
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I Don't believe black boxes are in every vehicle. I believe this model of Genesis has them.
 
Tenputt said:
As I understand it, a search warrant can be issued even for fairly minor traffic violations, such as speeding. I know of the term “black box,” but have always heard of it with respect to airplane crashes. I didn’t even realize that our vehicles had a black box that was recording what is going on with our cars. Man, everything seems to be recorded nowadays.
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I just assumed reckless driving because that, at least in NY, is a misdemeanor as opposed to a traffic violation. Many cars have event data recorders. I believe that upon air bag deployment the recorder will record back several seconds and will give the speed, whether the brakes were being engaged , if seat belt were engaged and I believe it can determine if steering was involved.
 
Tenputt said:
The story continues to evolve. Initially, it was reported that Tiger was coherent and able to converse with the first responders. I just read an ESPN report that said that Tiger was unconscious when the first witness arrived at the scene. This witness was a neighbor who heard the crash and went to investigate. He submitted an affidavit that stated that Tiger was unconscious and unresponsive when he arrived at the scene. This is not necessarily inconsistent with the sheriff reporting that Tiger was conscious. It is possible that Tiger regained is awareness between the time that the civilian encountered him and first responders arrived at the scene, but it is a new twist to the story.

Apparently, authorities obtained a search warrant to take possession of the black box, based upon the probable cause created by the affidavit. This makes me wonder why there was not probable cause to get a blood sample for toxicology testing. I wonder if some decision makers just decided not to go there. I wonder if Tiger were an ordinary citizen, would the authorities have gotten a blood sample.
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these things always evolve as the investigation narrows in on the truth. From what I have read it seem that there may be more to this story...
 
NVGOLFER80 said:
these things always evolve as the investigation narrows in on the truth. From what I have read it seem that there may be more to this story...
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It will be interesting to see what else comes to the forefront. Whether fate, chance, poor choices, or most likely, a combination of all of them, the Tiger story is one of the most star crossed that we have ever seen in the history of sports.
 
Tenputt said:
It will be interesting to see what else comes to the forefront. Whether fate, chance, poor choices, or most likely, a combination of all of them, the Tiger story is one of the most star crossed that we have ever seen in the history of sports.
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It's strange that one of the greatest golfers of all time could also be considered one of the biggest busts of all time. Almost a decade now of wasted talent due to bad luck and bad choices.
 
DaBuckBoys said:
Probably due to being a rental or courtesy vehicle. You're not paying for it so you get it with what they want to put in it... ie, data tracker...
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I don't know why a person wouldn't want it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
DaBuckBoys said:
Probably due to being a rental or courtesy vehicle. You're not paying for it so you get it with what they want to put in it... ie, data tracker...
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Just about everything has Crash Data Recording built into the ECU these days - it has nothing to do with being a rental. It's been that way for 15-20 years. In 2010 OEM's were required to make available to law enforcement.



collisionsciences.ca

About Collision Evidence | The Future of Claims Investigations

A Car Crash Data Report can prove who is at fault in a car accident; Unbiased Evidence to Expedite injury claims, or detect motor vehicle accident fraud
collisionsciences.ca collisionsciences.ca
.

Automobile Crash Event Data Recorder Downloading

www.crashforensics.com
 
Borrowed, Technically, vehicle on a public street, they can subpoena it all. Not to mention, some of these higher value cars have all kinds of sensors and tracking devices even as much as they can track your eye movement through heads up displays and tell if your were looking away, or down. When and IF you braked and how hard at what time before impact. Its all tacked and recorded, in some vehicles
 
donny475 said:
Borrowed, Technically, vehicle on a public street, they can subpoena it all. Not to mention, some of these higher value cars have all kinds of sensors and tracking devices even as much as they can track your eye movement through heads up displays and tell if your were looking away, or down. When and IF you braked and how hard at what time before impact. Its all tacked and recorded, in some vehicles
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My vehicle beeps and displays a ‘keep your eyes on the road’ message if I look away for too long. My wife’s does the same thing if both hands aren’t on the steering wheel.
 
jt2929 said:
My vehicle beeps and displays a ‘keep your eyes on the road’ message if I look away for too long. My wife’s does the same thing if both hands aren’t on the steering wheel.
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yep, i hear ya, mine says, "Why are you looking at me instead of the road?" why i call her the /bestgest half, more curves than a Texas two lane

and i will prolly hear it for that one too....lol
 
GraniteRoost said:
Just about everything has Crash Data Recording built into the ECU these days - it has nothing to do with being a rental. It's been that way for 15-20 years. In 2010 OEM's were required to make available to law enforcement.



collisionsciences.ca

About Collision Evidence | The Future of Claims Investigations

A Car Crash Data Report can prove who is at fault in a car accident; Unbiased Evidence to Expedite injury claims, or detect motor vehicle accident fraud
collisionsciences.ca collisionsciences.ca
.

Automobile Crash Event Data Recorder Downloading

www.crashforensics.com
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^ Correct. The vast majority of vehicles have it now.

As to the affidavit for the black box vs. blood test, the sheriff stated there was no evidence of impairment, so no probable cause for a blood test. But there is pretty significant evidence that excessive speed may have been a factor, so not hard to get a warrant to read the black box. It will also tell them if braking/steering input was involved.

Honestly though, I'm surprised they even bothered. Most likely just because it's such a high profile person involved. Usually if the errant driver is the only person injured, it's not worth the effort. Unless there's something really egregious that we don't know about, it's hard to imagine them even pushing for prosecution, it's a misdemeanor offense at most. I can see why the vehicle manufacturer would want it, to avoid liability over potential claims/allegations of equipment failure - but the vehicle manufacturer doesn't have any input over how a law enforcement agency investigates a collision.
 
jt2929 said:
My vehicle beeps and displays a ‘keep your eyes on the road’ message if I look away for too long. My wife’s does the same thing if both hands aren’t on the steering wheel.
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mine tryes to tell me i need to take a break😢
 
Snowman said:
^ Correct. The vast majority of vehicles have it now.

As to the affidavit for the black box vs. blood test, the sheriff stated there was no evidence of impairment, so no probable cause for a blood test. But there is pretty significant evidence that excessive speed may have been a factor, so not hard to get a warrant to read the black box. It will also tell them if braking/steering input was involved.

Honestly though, I'm surprised they even bothered. Most likely just because it's such a high profile person involved. Usually if the errant driver is the only person injured, it's not worth the effort. Unless there's something really egregious that we don't know about, it's hard to imagine them even pushing for prosecution, it's a misdemeanor offense at most. I can see why the vehicle manufacturer would want it, to avoid liability over potential claims/allegations of equipment failure - but the vehicle manufacturer doesn't have any input over how a law enforcement agency investigates a collision.
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Great post. I still wonder if the vehicle was not excessively speeding and he didn’t brake, if there is not probable cause of impairment.
 
Tenputt said:
The story continues to evolve. Initially, it was reported that Tiger was coherent and able to converse with the first responders. I just read an ESPN report that said that Tiger was unconscious when the first witness arrived at the scene. This witness was a neighbor who heard the crash and went to investigate. He submitted an affidavit that stated that Tiger was unconscious and unresponsive when he arrived at the scene. This is not necessarily inconsistent with the sheriff reporting that Tiger was conscious. It is possible that Tiger regained is awareness between the time that the civilian encountered him and first responders arrived at the scene, but it is a new twist to the story.

Apparently, authorities obtained a search warrant to take possession of the black box, based upon the probable cause created by the affidavit. This makes me wonder why there was not probable cause to get a blood sample for toxicology testing. I wonder if some decision makers just decided not to go there. I wonder if Tiger were an ordinary citizen, would the authorities have gotten a blood sample.
Click to expand...
Dear Sir, I think that you are asking the wrong question. the question is, how many one car accidents with just vehicle damage, no property damage except a rental with insurance coverage and no crime committed like fleeing etc...does law enforcement request black box access and blood samples field sobriety, etc.. Imagine if they did that with every fender binder in the nation. you would be required to do that for everyone that ran into the mailbox. Tiger Woods is not above the law, nor is he below it. Unconsciousness is not probable cause. IMO
 
Bernoulli said:
I would be interested in what was the probable cause alleged in the affidavit for the search warrant for the black box. Reckless driving? But, nothing as far as impairment to give pc for a blood draw?
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Yup. And too late now.

He only hurt himself (and the insurance company). LE looks for less reasons to nail you if you only really hurt yourself in general.

Technically my accident I could have been hit with a DUI charge, it would have never stuck, but there was a controlled substance (1. Clonazapam to control shaking from chemo like meds, taken less than prescribed but if they could have proven impairment, they’d have had a case just based on it being in my blood).

How I acted with first responders was key to that. I was in shock but absolutely unwilling to let them help me into the ambulance (I’ll get into it my damn self, thanks), I didn’t smell of booze, and I was clearly not drugged. I remember joking with the ambulance crew and even the Statie as she showed up. Didn’t realize how screwed I was at the time. Shock is a helluva a drug in itself, 😂-your body knows it’s f’ed but gives you the will to fight on-I’m amazed at what I did that day once my lizard brain took over. I broke 8 bones including a sternal fracture, (~30% survival rate) then I broke my leg kicking the damn door open, I thought I was in car fire. Not going out that way.

Had the presence to crawl up a 60* 12ft ditch I ended up in, call my soon to be ex-wife and tell her she needed to be at my house to pick up the kid, climbed my stubborn ass up into the ambulance, and was then told I was in trouble. Not legal, death. I was still having an ok day to that point.

Point in all that. First responders will have a lot to do with how an accident is treated. The Statie was kindly told to get the hell out of the ambulance, lol. They were trying to decide to life flight or transport. I could have been there an entire 4 minutes faster via helicopter. I was generally in pain but good spirits and that played a large role in how it was handled. Plus other than two f’ed cars for the insurance company to handle, the other party was fine (thank god).
 
titleist981 said:
Dear Sir, I think that you are asking the wrong question. the question is, how many one car accidents with just vehicle damage, no property damage except a rental with insurance coverage and no crime committed like fleeing etc...does law enforcement request black box access and blood samples field sobriety, etc.. Imagine if they did that with every fender binder in the nation. you would be required to do that for everyone that ran into the mailbox. Tiger Woods is not above the law, nor is he below it. Unconsciousness is not probable cause. IMO
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who said unconsciousness created probable cause? I didn’t. The authorities decided there was probable cause of a crime sufficient to obtain a warrant for the black box. It wasn’t because he was unconscious. Many single car accidents are the result of being under the influence, especially when the weather conditions are fine.
 
Tenputt said:
who said unconsciousness created probable cause? I didn’t. The authorities decided there was probable cause of a crime sufficient to obtain a warrant for the black box. It wasn’t because he was unconscious. Many single car accidents are the result of being under the influence, especially when the weather conditions are fine.
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Didn't mean to imply that you thought unconsciousness was probable cause.....just a general statement by me. i wouldn't want to go down the rabbit hole of blood subpoenas just because people are interested. If they do it to Tiger Woods, you and I would certainly be next.
 
titleist981 said:
Didn't mean to imply that you thought unconsciousness was probable cause.....just a general statement by me. i wouldn't want to go down the rabbit hole of blood subpoenas just because people are interested. If they do it to Tiger Woods, you and I would certainly be next.
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I respect your well thought out opinion. My view might be a little different ant it is not because this is Tiger. If I am in a horrible one car accident, where the injuries are life threatening, weather was not a factor, it was early morning, and no apparent reason for the crash, I honestly would not mind that they did a toxicology on my blood. If I am not under the influence, I have nothing to be worried about.

In the instant incident, it is very fortunate that nobody else was hurt. If Tiger was not driving at an excessive speed and/or did not put on his brakes, then he was very inattentive (texting?) or was under the influence. I don’t know what else it would be, but am open to suggestions. I want law enforcement to keep people off the road who should not be driving and prosecuting them is the only way to do that. Thus, the circumstances of a one car accident, no adverse weather and perhaps other factors, could create probable cause to get a toxicology report. After all, if he was unconscious, they have no way of knowing whether he was under the influence or not.

Admittedly, much is still speculation, because we don’t have all the facts. Again, though, anytime there is a serious one car accident, I think that there are red flags. We are not talking about bumping another car, hitting a mailbox, etc.
 
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I meant to write this earlier but got distracted at work. But I work in the service dept for a Mercedes dealership, and these cars have some great recording devices. So almost every time an airbag deploys on our cars a manufacturer rep comes to the car and downloads all the information from it. It reads out everything, and I mean everything...steering angle, acceleration %, our cars even read out roll, pitch and yaw. The newer ones like some of you said will definitely watch where you are even looking. Drivers can make commands now just by facial expressions it’s stupid. So I’m sure with the suv Tiger was driving it’s going to have stuff very close to what Mercedes and other high line manufacturers have as Genius has become a very nice brand.
 
Kmench said:
I meant to write this earlier but got distracted at work. But I work in the service dept for a Mercedes dealership, and these cars have some great recording devices. So almost every time an airbag deploys on our cars a manufacturer rep comes to the car and downloads all the information from it. It reads out everything, and I mean everything...steering angle, acceleration %, our cars even read out roll, pitch and yaw. The newer ones like some of you said will definitely watch where you are even looking. Drivers can make commands now just by facial expressions it’s stupid. So I’m sure with the suv Tiger was driving it’s going to have stuff very close to what Mercedes and other high line manufacturers have as Genius has become a very nice brand.
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Thanks for the very informative post.
 
Tenputt said:
I respect your well thought out opinion. My view might be a little different ant it is not because this is Tiger. If I am in a horrible one car accident, where the injuries are life threatening, weather was not a factor, it was early morning, and no apparent reason for the crash, I honestly would not mind that they did a toxicology on my blood. If I am not under the influence, I have nothing to be worried about.

In the instant incident, it is very fortunate that nobody else was hurt. If Tiger was not driving at an excessive speed and/or did not put on his brakes, then he was very inattentive (texting?) or was under the influence. I don’t know what else it would be, but am open to suggestions. I want law enforcement to keep people off the road who should not be driving and prosecuting them is the only way to do that. Thus, the circumstances of a one car accident, no adverse weather and perhaps other factors, could create probable cause to get a toxicology report. After all, if he was unconscious, they have no way of knowing whether he was under the influence or not.

Admittedly, much is still speculation, because we don’t have all the facts. Again, though, anytime there is a serious one care accident, I think that there are red flags. We are not talking about bumping another car, hitting a mailbox, etc.
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The driver (Tiger Woods) could have simply fallen asleep behind the wheel. Once his privacy is violated, it can not be put back in the bottle. IMO The air bags could have knocked the driver unconscious. Let's not have a fishing exposition where the police is searching for a crime.
 
Similar to what Mercedes does with their vehicle crash data in Europe, I would think with a new vehicle that tiger was driving that Genesis would certainly want to get hold of the black box determine if there was a failure of any sort mechanically. Although they might be able to search the contents remotely although I don’t know if you need the car to be powered on for that type of remote access.
 
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