Tiger Woods on the Distance Debate

[JB]

As Bryson and others continue to hit it further and further, defending champion of the ZOZO Championship had some thoughts. Here is Tiger Woods on the distance debate.

“Distance has always been an advantage. Now that we have the tools, that being the launch monitor, the fitting of the golf clubs, the adjustability. I think all that plays into the fact that you’re able to maximize the capabilities of a driver. There’s no reason why you can’t pick up more yardage and guys have done that”, Woods said.

Always one of the longest on tour, and during his dominance, courses were looking at ways to “Tiger Proof”.

“It’s about what do we do going forward and how soon can they do it? You’re not going to stop the guys who are there right now. Guys are figuring out how to carry the ball 320-plus yards, and it’s not just a few of them.”

The general conversation being had is about rolling back some form of equipment either universally to all or specific to the tour professionals…Meaning Bifurcation of the rule book.

“I just don’t see how they can roll everything back. I would like to be able to see that, as far as our game, but then we go back down the road of what do you bifurcate, at what level?”

Tiger is correct at the general idea of rolling back a form of equipment is easier in theory than execution. For all of the talk about Bryson DeChambeau fantastic win at the 2020 US Open, it isn’t that far off from what Rory McIlroy did nearly 10 years ago at the 2011 US Open in his victory. Both were 7th in driving distance and both were 26th in driving accuracy. The yards went up a little bit, but there was virtually no outrage at that time.

Do you agree with Tiger Woods? What do you think the next step should be and will be?

Continue reading...

 

[Bryndom]

I'm still in the undecided camp. I used to think that you could set the course up with extreme doglegs, punishing rough, and tough putting conditions to really test players. I think Bryson's performance at the US Open really changed my thinking about what you could really do to make the game less of a drive and pitch routine.

We're seeing players being able to hit these bombs with a real degree of accuracy that I've not really seen in the past. The problem with changing the equipment is that it doesn't eliminate the problem. The players able to drive longer will still have an advantage over others. The only difference really is instead of "drive and pitch" maybe it becomes "driver and 8 iron".

Expanding the length of the courses is also impractical, so I really don't know. Maybe the safest thing is to consider adding hazards near that extreme landing distance to force players back some? Or impractical and extreme, perhaps play only links courses where the wind plays havoc on the drives

 

[Scorp]

Hitting the ball too far is never going to be an issue for me. I tend to lean in favor of bifurcating the rules. Rules for pros; rules for Joes.

 

[mikeg_74]

As Bryson and others continue to hit it further and further, defending champion of the ZOZO Championship had some thoughts. Here is Tiger Woods on the distance debate.

“Distance has always been an advantage. Now that we have the tools, that being the launch monitor, the fitting of the golf clubs, the adjustability. I think all that plays into the fact that you’re able to maximize the capabilities of a driver. There’s no reason why you can’t pick up more yardage and guys have done that”, Woods said.

Always one of the longest on tour, and during his dominance, courses were looking at ways to “Tiger Proof”.

“It’s about what do we do going forward and how soon can they do it? You’re not going to stop the guys who are there right now. Guys are figuring out how to carry the ball 320-plus yards, and it’s not just a few of them.”

The general conversation being had is about rolling back some form of equipment either universally to all or specific to the tour professionals…Meaning Bifurcation of the rule book.

“I just don’t see how they can roll everything back. I would like to be able to see that, as far as our game, but then we go back down the road of what do you bifurcate, at what level?”

Tiger is correct at the general idea of rolling back a form of equipment is easier in theory than execution. For all of the talk about Bryson DeChambeau fantastic win at the 2020 US Open, it isn’t that far off from what Rory McIlroy did nearly 10 years ago at the 2011 US Open in his victory. Both were 7th in driving distance and both were 26th in driving accuracy. The yards went up a little bit, but there was virtually no outrage at that time.

Do you agree with Tiger Woods? What do you think the next step should be and will be?

Continue reading...

I think Tiger's comments have made the most sense of anyone talking about the subject lately. Bifurcation sounds great in theory, but is a slippery slope IMO. I need to go look, but Bryson is not blowing away the field in driving. He is just being more up front about it.

 

[Afizzle2100]

Tiger is correct at the general idea of rolling back a form of equipment is easier in theory than execution. For all of the talk about Bryson DeChambeau fantastic win at the 2020 US Open, it isn’t that far off from what Rory McIlroy did nearly 10 years ago at the 2011 US Open in his victory. Both were 7th in driving distance and both were 26th in driving accuracy. The yards went up a little bit, but there was virtually no outrage at that time.

This is my whole thing with the distance thing. Is Bryson hitting it farther than ever? Sure! Will it give him top 10’s in almost every “small” tournament he plays in? Probably, if he putts well.

However, Rory has been doing this same thing in majors on a slightly smaller scale for the last decade. Bryson impact is marginally different than what Rory is doing. No one is wanting golf to be a long drive competition, but let’s see how this plays out before making and drastic bifurcation decisions. If Bryson wins the next 5 majors by landslide, and the driving distance changes the whole course then we can have that talk, but just how Rory has shown. When the driver gets in the wrong spot, or the putting isn’t as hot as it was all of a sudden you find yourself in a multi year major drought.

 

[Bethpage Hack]

I agree with Tiger, and in addition to his points, and in the big picture outside of competitive golf, the newer equipment makes the game more enjoyable to the average golfer and especially the newer golfer (and there are many new ones this year). So overall I think we leave it alone.

 

[TCB2010]

At some point if they roll back equipment, do people just say you know what I don’t want to play anymore.

 

[JB]

This is my whole thing with the distance thing. Is Bryson hitting it farther than ever? Sure! Will it give him top 10’s in almost every “small” tournament he plays in? Probably, if he putts well.

However, Rory has been doing this same thing in majors on a slightly smaller scale for the last decade. Bryson impact is marginally different than what Rory is doing. No one is wanting golf to be a long drive competition, but let’s see how this plays out before making and drastic bifurcation decisions. If Bryson wins the next 5 majors by landslide, and the driving distance changes the whole course then we can have that talk, but just how Rory has shown. When the driver gets in the wrong spot, or the putting isn’t as hot as it was all of a sudden you find yourself in a multi year major drought.

That is the funniest part of this argument. It's not as if Bryson all of the same got longer and everybody can't compete. Jack was longer. Tiger was longer. Rory was longer. Cam Champ and Tony Finau are longer. But Bryson being "different" and all of the sudden we have to change everything.

Not sure I understand that logic, but based on the previous moves by the USGA, not much surprises me anymore.

 

[McLovin]

it's just so usga-y and asinine that we are having this conversation based on a couple wins. like when we had this stupid conversation after a few guys won majors with anchored putting strokes. completely change the rule book for some flash-in-the pan success? what sense does that make??? if bryson goes on to win the dechamslam, and starts putting up win percentages that we saw from tiger in his prime, ok maybe i'd consider some discussion on this (personally i like poulter's rule the best, where we have a minimum driver loft and maximum driver length). but until then, let golf be golf and let's all have fun with it.

 

[Afizzle2100]

At some point if they roll back equipment, do people just say you know what I don’t want to play anymore.

could be an angle for the PGL. Come play for us where we pay a monster guaranteed amount and won’t screw with your equipment.

 

[SC Golfer]

As for bifurcation I am not sure it will work. As for courses to make them more difficult here is a thought. Instead of rough guarding fairways and greens why not shave everything Aron day the course. This way tee balls struck off line will not get caught by rough, but will run into wooded areas or hazard areas. Also doing this around the greens. Most pros will get up and down from 20 to 40 feet from the rough. But shaved areas around greens will allow misses to possibly to go 20 to 40 yards from the hole and on a tight lie. This could make good ball striking more important than just bomb it a play from the rough. Just a thought.

 

[BigMac]

I think Tiger's reasoning is logical and sensible - which is more than I can say for the USGA / R&A. The old stuffed shirts need to move beyond cradling their persimmon woods and balata balls and longing for the days of yore, and they need to realize that this "crisis" affects about .00000001% of all golfers. Either come up with a sensible bifurcation plan, or let it go.

 

[BigMac]

it's just so usga-y and asinine that we are having this conversation based on a couple wins. like when we had this stupid conversation after a few guys won majors with anchored putting strokes. completely change the rule book for some flash-in-the pan success? what sense does that make??? if bryson goes on to win the dechamslam, and starts putting up win percentages that we saw from tiger in his prime, ok maybe i'd consider some discussion on this (personally i like poulter's rule the best, where we have a minimum driver loft and maximum driver length). but until then, let golf be golf and let's all have fun with it.

Then why weren't there discussions on it when Tiger was putting up those win percentages? Where was all the pearl-clutching then? Oh sure, they talked about "Tiger proofing" courses, but I don't recall their being all this talk about changing the rules or rolling back the equipment. And Tiger in his prime was far more dominant than any current golfer, for a lot longer.

 

[DataDude]

As Bryson and others continue to hit it further and further, defending champion of the ZOZO Championship had some thoughts. Here is Tiger Woods on the distance debate.

“Distance has always been an advantage. Now that we have the tools, that being the launch monitor, the fitting of the golf clubs, the adjustability. I think all that plays into the fact that you’re able to maximize the capabilities of a driver. There’s no reason why you can’t pick up more yardage and guys have done that”, Woods said.

Always one of the longest on tour, and during his dominance, courses were looking at ways to “Tiger Proof”.

“It’s about what do we do going forward and how soon can they do it? You’re not going to stop the guys who are there right now. Guys are figuring out how to carry the ball 320-plus yards, and it’s not just a few of them.”

The general conversation being had is about rolling back some form of equipment either universally to all or specific to the tour professionals…Meaning Bifurcation of the rule book.

“I just don’t see how they can roll everything back. I would like to be able to see that, as far as our game, but then we go back down the road of what do you bifurcate, at what level?”

Tiger is correct at the general idea of rolling back a form of equipment is easier in theory than execution. For all of the talk about Bryson DeChambeau fantastic win at the 2020 US Open, it isn’t that far off from what Rory McIlroy did nearly 10 years ago at the 2011 US Open in his victory. Both were 7th in driving distance and both were 26th in driving accuracy. The yards went up a little bit, but there was virtually no outrage at that time.

Do you agree with Tiger Woods? What do you think the next step should be and will be?

Continue reading...

I think we're making too big of a deal of Bryson Dechambeau. He's a really good player who was going to win a major and he did. Now people are talking like he is going to win every major from here on out. I for one highly doubt it as his short game and approach game are very average most weeks. I have watched him hit so many drives inside 100 on Par 4's this year and struggle to get the ball in the hole that I know he isn't going to dominate. He will win his fair share (couple tourneys a year and maybe 3 or 4 total majors) but there is no reason to Bryson proof anything.

As for bifurcation if that's what people want, then make the max driver head size 360cc at the pro level. Voila, problem solved as now center face contact is a premium and Bryson becomes John Daly.

 

[McLovin]

Then why weren't there discussions on it when Tiger was putting up those win percentages? Where was all the pearl-clutching then? Oh sure, they talked about "Tiger proofing" courses, but I don't recall their being all this talk about changing the rules or rolling back the equipment. And Tiger in his prime was far more dominant than any current golfer, for a lot longer.

i think the obvious answer is how good tiger was for the game monetarily. whereas the powers that be may not see bryson as having that same kind of impact on viewership and revenue (not saying whether that's right or wrong).

maybe this is unfair, but i also wonder whether race would play a roll. this is not a game that has a rich history of inclusivity. if a person of color comes along in tiger woods who beats all the white guys by 100 shots a week, it's not a good look to scramble to change the rules to stop that from happening.

and lastly, during the tiger proofing there was more land available and less of a focus on conservation. so courses were fine to knock down trees, move more dirt, and disrupt more habitats to make the course longer and less gettable.

 

[smgoldstein]

Well spoken but don't think he said anything that we haven't heard before.

 

[BigMac]

i think the obvious answer is how good tiger was the game monetarily. whereas the powers that be may not see bryson as having that same kind of impact on viewership and revenue (not saying whether that's right or wrong).

maybe this is unfair, but i also wonder whether race would play a roll. this is not a game that has a rich history of inclusivity. if a person of color comes along in tiger woods who beats all the white guys but 100 shots a week, it's not a good look to scramble to change the rules to stop that from happening.

and lastly, during the tiger proofing there was more land available and less of a focus on conservation. so courses were fine to knock down trees, move more dirt, and disrupt more habitats to make the course longer and less gettable.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with those points, especially the first two. There's no reason for Bryson to be the poster child for this "problem", when there are plenty of others hitting it just as far as he is, if not farther. Maybe if Cam Champ or Tony Finau suddenly catches fire and takes the lead, it'll suddenly disappear.

 

[JB]

. He will win his fair share (couple tourneys a year and maybe 3 or 4 total majors)

I’ll take that action.

 

[DataDude]

I’ll take that action.

More or less?

 

[JB]

More or less?

He was going to do that before the distance gain. More.

If nothing changes I believe his current arc has him achieving number one in the world

 

[DataDude]

He was going to do that before the distance gain. More.

If nothing changes I believe his current arc has him achieving number one in the world

Best v best he is still not as good as DJ, JT, Rory, or Jon Rahm IMO. I just think he's hot right now. He is going to tinker himself into a dry spell sooner or later. Everyone that tinkers as much as he does ends up going hot and cold. This was a shot tracker 3 weeks ago when he played that I shared with my buddies on a text. This is what I see all the time when watching him on PGA Tour Live.

 

[MWard]

He was going to do that before the distance gain. More.

If nothing changes I believe his current arc has him achieving number one in the world

He better work on his wedge game then. It’s not as good as it should be for a guy who has a lot of them into greens. 119th in SG approach to green, 111th SG around the greens.. that’s not so bueno.

 

[jfrigo1003]

this is hard for me and I might contradict myself

I personally dont have a problem with the distance and its pretty damn fun to watch honestly. However if they decided to reduce the COR in woods then id be fine with it too (its not what I want but id be fine with it).

I say this as a former baseball player thats lived through equipment modifications. I'm only 31 and played baseball in college and past college. 3 times already in 15 years
the metal bats have been reduced in how hot the ball can come off the bat. When I played in high school those bats made it feel like you were hitting one of the super bouncy balls!! With the new bats its a notably more dead sound and feeling. also the overall sweet spot is reduced

sticking with baseball, the pros also must use different bats and balls than everyone else. so if golf went that route id understand also

so overall I do thoroughly enjoy where the game is at and its very entertaining watching Bryson hit it 350+. I personally would not change anything....but if there were minor equipment modifications I would understand and accept it

 

[golfunfiltered]

If everyone is honest with each other, golf is already bifurcated. People just don't want to admit it.

I agree with Tiger's comments, and as all of you know, I'm strongly in the camp that something has to happen at the pro level to "keep the ball in the ballpark." Tiger's right: guys aren't going to stop getting stronger. It's up to course architects and tournament officials to set up pro tournaments in a way that challenges all players equally.

 

[TCB2010]

I’ll take that action.

i can see winning a few tournaments maybe 2 a year but you think hes going to win more than 3-4 majors?

 

[Templet0n]

If I am reading Tigers comments correctly. It appears that he is soft pedaling back some comment previously about supporting a universal roll back. He is playing the diplomat and saying “something needs to be done” but does not know what.

bifurcation seems terrible to me. So does a universal roll back. I have no idea what the answer is.. maybe that’s because we are asking the wrong question..