Trackman, I have some questions

[jpbova]

I have a couple questions on my trackman data. I am hoping you guys have more experience than me. This is the first time I have been on a legit trackman. Let me know if anything jumps out at you too

All my clubs the spin loft was too high. How do you reduce this?

Driver
How do you hit up on the ball without placing it outside your front foot or finishing on your back foot?
It seems that longest drives I hit where with a fade club path. However, most of my swings were the club comes from the inside and the rest of my clubs are inside out. How important is it have a consistent swing path?


7 Iron
What can I do to get more length out of my irons? I know what the trackman says, but I don't know what that means to my swing


Wedge
Is the 4.5 swing path come to far from the inside? I have tendency to push my wedges right

 

[lmh3]

Hard to give a good answer with out seeing the swing as well. Shoulder tilt and hip rotation versus slide can create positive attack angles with a driver without having it teed up outside the foot or falling back. Would need to see the swing itself to get into any more detail, a good teacher could most likely figure it out fairly quickly for you. Although PGA Tour average is a descending angle of attack with driver.

As far as the seven iron, it looks like the club head is releasing early, adding dynamic loft at impact. Just the visual of the shaft angle on the 7 iron picture shows that. Trackman has the PGA Tour average club head speed with a 7 iron right around where your's is, but the ball speed is 120 for a 1.33 smash factor and a bit less spin than you generated yielding a carry of 172.

 

[jpbova]

Hard to give a good answer with out seeing the swing as well. Shoulder tilt and hip rotation versus slide can create positive attack angles with a driver without having it teed up outside the foot or falling back. Would need to see the swing itself to get into any more detail, a good teacher could most likely figure it out fairly quickly for you. Although PGA Tour average is a descending angle of attack with driver.

As far as the seven iron, it looks like the club head is releasing early, adding dynamic loft at impact. Just the visual of the shaft angle on the 7 iron picture shows that. Trackman has the PGA Tour average club head speed with a 7 iron right around where your's is, but the ball speed is 120 for a 1.33 smash factor and a bit less spin than you generated yielding a carry of 172.

I think you make a really good point. I do slide. At the end of the trackman session I noticed that I was delivering a crazy high dynamic loft with my driver. I have a tendency to finish on my back foot, and I used to reverse pivot as a junior golfer, and it took me a long layoff from golf to get rid of it. I went to the range after the session, and I was working on finishing on my front foot with my 7 iron. I must have added 5 yards and my best shots were flying 170+. I need to get back on the trackman to prove what I am feeling.

 

[radiman]

Driver
How do you hit up on the ball without placing it outside your front foot or finishing on your back foot?
It seems that longest drives I hit where with a fade club path. However, most of my swings were the club comes from the inside and the rest of my clubs are inside out. How important is it have a consistent swing path?

It is possible to have a positive angle of attack with having the ball inside your left foot and still getting your weight to the left side. It involves secondary tilt. Essentially, some tilt to the right at address. But, I would say that you may want to work with an instructor to ensure you are making the right changes. In regards to having a consistent swing path, I think it's extremely important to creating a repeatable swing.



Wedge
Is the 4.5 swing path come to far from the inside? I have tendency to push my wedges right

I think 4.5 is manageable, but you would need to have better control of the club face. Delivering it closed to path would result in a nice draw. Which, if I am reading your numbers correctly, it appears that is the case on the swing posted. If you leave the face open, then you'll push.

 

[jpbova]

I think 4.5 is manageable, but you would need to have better control of the club face. Delivering it closed to path would result in a nice draw. Which, if I am reading your numbers correctly, it appears that is the case on the swing posted. If you leave the face open, then you'll push.

Yes, I deliver my irons inside out with a closed to the path club face when I hit it well. I will leave it out right if I don't release in time, and this is my miss. Does closed to the path mean -2* closed to the path in which I am swinging?

It is possible to have a positive angle of attack with having the ball inside your left foot and still getting your weight to the left side. It involves secondary tilt. Essentially, some tilt to the right at address. But, I would say that you may want to work with an instructor to ensure you are making the right changes. In regards to having a consistent swing path, I think it's extremely important to creating a repeatable swing.

gotcha. I am going to go back to the trackman facility and do a lesson with the PGA pro there. I have taken lessons from people in the past without this technology, and I seem to get a mixed bag. It's 2020. All serious teaching pros should be getting some type of data

 

[radiman]

Yes, I deliver my irons inside out with a closed to the path club face when I hit it well. I will leave it out right if I don't release in time, and this is my miss. Does closed to the path mean -2* closed to the path in which I am swinging?

Correct. So, if your target is zero and your path is 4, being -2 to path would essentially start the ball 2 degrees right of target. But, the path that is 2 degrees to the right of your face angle will cause the ball to draw.

 

[Molten]

Yes, I deliver my irons inside out with a closed to the path club face when I hit it well. I will leave it out right if I don't release in time, and this is my miss. Does closed to the path mean -2* closed to the path in which I am swinging?

With the wedges, you see that the path is 4.5 degrees (because it is positive, it is to the right) and the face is -2.1 degrees to that path. This is a great combination for a nice draw. Going off memory, I think this difference will still leave the ball a bit right of where you are aimed but it will still be a solid shot.

As you see with the posted iron, you have a path of 2.0 degrees (again, to the right). But your face is actually +0.8 to that path, which means the face is open to the path at impact. So you should see a ball that starts right and either essentially holds its line or fades a little.

The numbers are fun to dive into and I highly recommend you ask as many questions as you have - plenty of people here are pretty knowledgeable (and will likely correct my post too...)

 

[jpbova]

appreciate it guys. I do need to work on how I deliver the face. My dispersion was not great with my irons

 

[Molten]

appreciate it guys. I do need to work on how I deliver the face. My dispersion was not great with my irons

I’m not sold on that statement! Your numbers looks pretty good and that swing speed is insane

 

[jpbova]

I’m not sold on that statement! Your numbers looks pretty good and that swing speed is insane

Ha! Thanks! for a 5'9" 155lbs Dad, I do have an abnormally high swing speed. HOWEVER, doesn't matter if you can't hit greens. I have problem slowing down my swing to deliver a more consistent dispersion

 

[-CRW-]

I've been exactly where you were. The #1 culprit is all but guaranteed to be face angle control. It results in an early release (even if not a big cast or flip) that delivers the added loft in an attempt to square the face.

Here is one of my shots with a 7i when I was working on the same thing. I cheated by moving the ball farther forward, but while that helps with face angle it hurts AOA and dynamic loft despite having my low point in front of the ball.



Don't worry about lateral movement right now. People act like there shouldn't be any lateral movement, but the tour averages are roughly 1-2 inches off the ball, a return to center at the top of the swing, and +4.5" toward the target. Part of hitting up on the driver is getting the lower body (pelvic center) forward while keeping the upper body (center of the sternum) slightly back. Some of that can be preset with secondary tilt. But you are on par with the Tour average for AOA, and it's almost necessary for control with higher club head speeds (which you are also near the tour average). You could cheat a little on the dynamic loft with the driver by lowering the loft or getting a lower lofted and lower spinning head. Just keep in mind that lowering the loft on the driver opens the face of the club and you already have a problem with an open face.

Don't worry much about path at the moment either. They are really good numbers. The path works with the angle of attack to produce your shots. So with the wedge, hitting more down offsets the path going to the right. If you wanted to change those numbers it could be a simple as ball placement. The culprit in the wedge shot you've shared is again the face being 2* open to the path.

Another thing to keep in mind is what type of ball you were hitting. If you were outdoors hitting range balls the launch and spin numbers can be exaggerated in either direction when compared to quality urethane (tour) golf balls.

As for a fix, it would help to see slow motion video head on and down the line. It could be something as simple as strengthening your grip, but it's probably wrist positions at impact. See if this video might help as the before numbers with a 7i are similar to yours:

 

[jpbova]

I appreciate the video and insights. Especially on the wedge path. Its good to know. As a junior golfer, I used the bow my wrist and have the club face pointing upwards like DJ. I had many people try and correct it because the club face was not pointing down the line. Yes it delivers less loft and a better wrist angle at impact. I have been trying get that feeling back because I think my miss right is coming from a cupped wrist.

If you are cheating with the ball forward to correct your release, but your dyanimic loft was increased. How did you end up correcting it to deliver the correct loft, wrist angle and release?

As far as lateral movement goes, I am concerned with it as much as it relates to my turn. Seems like when I don't finish fully on my front foot I deliver the face angle erratically and more dynamic loft. Here is one of my better drives with my weight finishing on my left side. If I sort out the data, where I finished on my left side (sadly its only my last 5-6 drives) the dispersion shows 10 yards within the center, but then my AoA goes from 1* to 3*(although not on the below shot). Makes me believe it's my body more than my hands on the way I am delivering the club, right?



I was indoors playing with a 2 piece ionomer low compression ball. I should have pulled one out of my bag

 

[-CRW-]

Trying to get into the DJ position can be painful, and isn’t necessary. The tour average is a very slight cup (close to visually appearing neutral). This is according to Gears Golf and Hack Motion. The leading edge of the club face should be close to parallel to your lead forearm. The bowing (and closing of the face) starts on the way down as the shaft approaches the point it is parallel to the ground. Then you just turn the body to/through impact.

I improved my numbers by moving the ball back to center or just in front of center and working on the position shown in the video I showed you - bowing the wrist in the down swing. I also have to work on holding my arms back or leaving my back to the target a split second longer to keep my hands/arms from outracing my body.

I still think the lateral motion is not a concern and is a byproduct of everything else. I’m not saying that getting your weight forward is a problem, I’m saying it’s not something you should have to think about. The swing is an athletic motion. Everything moves off the address position, re-centers, and moves beyond the original address position toward the target. In other words, get the face angle issue addressed first and then re-evaluate your swing for any remaining issues.

The golf swing is a perishable skill. So most people, including the best Tour Pros, have faults occasionally pop up - some of which they’ve dealt with in the past. The trick is to learn the faults and solutions to quickly self-diagnose and correct before bad habits are formed. Or have enough money to pay someone to monitor your swing on a constant basis.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

My two cents. The iron data is pretty darn good. However, the driver swing appears to be mimicking the iron swings and basically creating a cut-shot like Roger Federer in tennis. I too suffer from excessive driver spin, around 3300 rpm. In my case I'm hitting "down" with a slightly glancing blow.

 

[jpbova]

Do you change your swing based on whether you have wood or iron in your hand? I don't feel like I do

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Do you change your swing based on whether you have wood or iron in your hand? I don't feel like I do

They're two different types of swings. The Driver is a more of a launching club, while irons are meant to be hit down upon with like a 3 degree descending blow. 3 wood is more of a sweep IMO. Others may have different views.

 

[-CRW-]

Do you change your swing based on whether you have wood or iron in your hand? I don't feel like I do

I don’t. I just change ball position and stance width.

If you look over the Trackman averages you’ll see that you should be hitting everything with a downward/negative attack angle. The one exception would be driver or 3 wood off a tee where you are trying to lower spin to maximize carry. But it can cause a lack of control. Cameron Champ, with the fastest club head speed on tour at the moment, intentionally hits down with the driver (around 2*) because he can control the swing and resulting shot better than he can trying to hit up on it.

 

[jpbova]

I could be doing this too long to know that I change my swing shot to shot. A lot of it is automatic. I am playing today. Going to try and get video

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I could be doing this too long to know that I change my swing shot to shot. A lot of it is automatic. I am playing today. Going to try and get video

Just try to only change one thing at a time so you can better evaluate cause & effect. I'm the worst at falling into the trap of adjusting 3 to 4 things in rapid format while I was intent on isolating one change.

 

[jpbova]

Just try to only change one thing at a time so you can better evaluate cause & effect. I'm the worst at falling into the trap of adjusting 3 to 4 things in rapid format while I was intent on isolating one change.

same. My personality doesn’t lend itself to just working on one thing at a time. I’m always working on as many things that are identified as wrong with my swing: get your weight back, finish on your front foot, bow your wrist, steep at the top, good tempo, release

 

[radiman]

They're two different types of swings. The Driver is a more of a launching club, while irons are meant to be hit down upon with like a 3 degree descending blow. 3 wood is more of a sweep IMO. Others may have different views.

I would argue that the swings are the same. What differs between them is the club specs (length, lie) and ball position. The meat of your swing should remain the same. The fact that the club is longer and the ball is further from you and further up in your stance should see the club being delivered a lot shallower. I mean, there will be some intricacies between the two swings. But, really, the swing and what you are working on, should really be similar.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

same. My personality doesn’t lend itself to just working on one thing at a time. I’m always working on as many things that are identified as wrong with my swing: get your weight back, finish on your front foot, bow your wrist, steep at the top, good tempo, release

So true. Plus sometimes I end-up chasing things like "get your weight back" then come to find in a video that my club was so laid-off at the top that I had no chance of a good shot regardless of weight movement.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

I would argue that the swings are the same. What differs between them is the club specs (length, lie) and ball position. The meat of your swing should remain the same. The fact that the club is longer and the ball is further from you and further up in your stance should see the club being delivered a lot shallower. I mean, there will be some intricacies between the two swings. But, really, the swing and what you are working on, should really be similar.

Can't argue with that. You're right, the swings are ultimately the same, it's just the design of the clubs that require adjusting the angle of attack which In reality is really like plus/minus 3 degrees.

 

[jpbova]

Welp. I was going to post my swing, but it’s embarrassing. My lower body looks like Danny Noonan from caddy shack. It is literally Gumby. must have developed that bad habit when I was trying to get rid of my reverse pivot. No wonder my dispersion sucks. Shouldn’t be hard to fix just keep my lead foot on the ground. Just add one more swing thought to the list.

 

[GolfLivesMatter]

Welp. I was going to post my swing, but it’s embarrassing. My lower body looks like Danny Noonan from caddy shack. It is literally Gumby. must have developed that bad habit when I was trying to get rid of my reverse pivot. No wonder my dispersion sucks. Shouldn’t be hard to fix just keep my lead foot on the ground. Just add one more swing thought to the list.

Come on...post it!!! We're often our own worst critics. There's probably 1,000 years of golf experience on here ready to help!!!