Understanding adjustable hosels

Nippon Shafts

badolds

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I found this video that explains how adjustable driver hosels work. I know that when you loft up any brand of driver that the face will appear more closed at address. I assumed that the club would need to be turned in my hands to square the clubface and that would be the true adjusted loft. My instructor from last year said otherwise so I would like to truly understand what is happening when I add or subtract loft from my driver using an adjustable hosel. This video explains it nicely but it seems like Tom is trying to sell something and I am not sure I trust his views as facts.

Do you agree with Tom? If not please explain where you differ.

What is the difference between setting a driver in the loft up "face closed" and draw setting "face closed"
 

Sox_Fan

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The video probably should have been about 1/2 the time it was. I was pretty much tuned out about half way through it as it seemed like he kept jumping around and circling back and continuously hitting the same points. And then after 13 minutes of listening to him drone on, I finally see him get to his point about trying to sell bendable hosel drivers after tearing down adjustable hosels. I have no idea what the adjustments on adjustable hosels really do. I try different setting but always end up back at the standard neutral setting.
 

badolds

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I agree the video is too long but I would really like to know if we are supposed to square the club face in our hands to get the desired loft adjustment. Doesn't it seem ironic that when you loft up a driver that the face closes and it would appear to the eye that the loft is decreased? Confusing but I would like to understand it better.
 

Stryker

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I agree the video is too long but I would really like to know if we are supposed to square the club face in our hands to get the desired loft adjustment. Doesn't it seem ironic that when you loft up a driver that the face closes and it would appear to the eye that the loft is decreased? Confusing but I would like to understand it better.
It would seem to me that squaring it in your hands would change the loft too.
 

badolds

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It would seem to me that squaring it in your hands would change the loft too.
Exactly, but do the oems expect us to square it up to get the desired loft.
 

ddec

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The Driver
I agree the video is too long but I would really like to know if we are supposed to square the club face in our hands to get the desired loft adjustment. Doesn't it seem ironic that when you loft up a driver that the face closes and it would appear to the eye that the loft is decreased? Confusing but I would like to understand it better.
It's because you are really changing the "effective loft" of the club.

Generally speaking here, but an easy way to make sense of it....

If you are hitting the ball too low, in part it's because you are opening the face at contact, and probably doing so with more of a glancing blow. So with the face rotating ever so slightly open in the downswing, if that position starts from a slightly closed position, and you follow the same movement patterns, the face is more likely to return to a square position at impact, which *should* produce a higher and stronger ball flight as opposed to one that happens when the face is open.

The opposite happens when you open the face. To return the open face to the square you have to be rotating the face shut at impact which will effectively lower the effective or presented loft at impact.
 

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It would seem to me that squaring it in your hands would change the loft too.
Exactly, but do the oems expect us to square it up to get the desired loft.
I agree. I would think that the fact that the face angle is 1° open when delofting the driver would contribute to the loft change from 10.5° to 9.5°. But I guess he is saying the the loft is still 10.5° if you set the club down at 1° open. Makes no sense to have to manipulate the face orientation in your hands to square after making the hosel adjustment to get the desired 9.5° loft.
 

badolds

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It's because you are really changing the "effective loft" of the club.

Generally speaking here, but an easy way to make sense of it....

If you are hitting the ball too low, in part it's because you are opening the face at contact, and probably doing so with more of a glancing blow. So with the face rotating ever so slightly open in the downswing, if that position starts from a slightly closed position, and you follow the same movement patterns, the face is more likely to return to a square position at impact, which *should* produce a higher and stronger ball flight as opposed to one that happens when the face is open.

The opposite happens when you open the face. To return the open face to the square you have to be rotating the face shut at impact which will effectively lower the effective or presented loft at impact.
Thanks for the reply Dean. Do you think a golfer should square the club face in the hands at address or leave it shut if trying to loft up?
 

ddec

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Thanks for the reply Dean. Do you think a golfer should square the club face in the hands at address or leave it shut if trying to loft up?
My thought is that if you are using the adjustments on the hosel to help alter the ball flight, then let the club rest how it wants to post-adjustment. Otherwise, you'd be overriding the changes.

And some companies don't have the face move as much, IE Cobra, as the adjustable tech has evolved.
 

badolds

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If anyone can recommend a video that explains it correctly please post it here. I must be a simpleton because I cannot grasp how it actually works.

Thanks
 

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Yes lot interest half way thru. I try to just to do it as Dean said and not manipulate it at address.
 

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"Draw" settings only change the lie angle. Specifically, they make the club more upright. Some companies, like Ping and PXG, start more upright and have flat settings. Though, they are not marked as "flat". Even though the club doesn't impact the ground, the lie angle matters because it affects both how you set up at address and where the face is pointed when you rest the sole on the ground.

The open/close face angle changes are based on how the club sits on the ground when you rest the sole on the ground. Those settings can be mostly countered by gripping the club before resting it on the ground. In all cases, lofting up closes the face angle and delofting opens the face. Companies made sole plates in the past that could be adjusted to offset this when the club sole was placed on the ground, but they moved away from them. Likely because it was more important to use that discretionary weight elsewhere.

The loft changes can't really be altered, or may be slightly altered by your grip, because the shaft actually enters the head at different angles to produce those loft changes. Look at an adjustable sleeve and you'll see that the shelf where the hosel of the head meets the adapter is not level. It's at an angle.
 

badolds

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So I just need to trust that the launch will be higher and let the club sit closed at address. I can live with that but it would be nice to understand how it works.
 

-CRW-

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So I just need to trust that the launch will be higher and let the club sit closed at address. I can live with that but it would be nice to understand how it works.
Or if you want to increase launch and spin, but not have the face closed just grip the club out in front of you/off the ground. This will negate any face angle changes that would occur when the club is grounded without first having your grip in place.
 

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My thought is that if you are using the adjustments on the hosel to help alter the ball flight, then let the club rest how it wants to post-adjustment. Otherwise, you'd be overriding the changes.
That was kind of my point a few posts up from this one.
 

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If anyone can recommend a video that explains it correctly please post it here. I must be a simpleton because I cannot grasp how it actually works.

Thanks

You're not alone. Try being a left handed golfer with a RH adapter on your LH club and adjusting the loft. You have to reverse the settings in your head but alas I forget and stuff happens. :oops:
 

J.B. Cobb III

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@badolds I have asked this question a bunch of times and never got a straight yes or no answer. If I loft the club up a degree and it closes the clubface, then I physically turn the club to sit square behind the ball, did I just negate the changes and put the dynamic loft back to standard?
 

OGputtnfool

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I found this video that explains how adjustable driver hosels work. I know that when you loft up any brand of driver that the face will appear more closed at address. I assumed that the club would need to be turned in my hands to square the clubface and that would be the true adjusted loft. My instructor from last year said otherwise so I would like to truly understand what is happening when I add or subtract loft from my driver using an adjustable hosel. This video explains it nicely but it seems like Tom is trying to sell something and I am not sure I trust his views as facts.

Do you agree with Tom? If not please explain where you differ.

What is the difference between setting a driver in the loft up "face closed" and draw setting "face closed"
Not sure why you wouldn't trust Tom about any aspect of clubmaking. His credentials are likely => just about anyone on the planet.
 

Johan185

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OGputtnfool

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badolds

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Not sure why you wouldn't trust Tom about any aspect of clubmaking. His credentials are likely => just about anyone on the planet.
I want to trust Tom because his video explained it in a way that I can understand. The reason I do not trust Tom is that his opinions do not match what I have been told by my Instructor last year and by knowledgeable people in this thread. It does not matter to me who is right or wrong, I just want to know which way is correct.
 

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I want to trust Tom because his video explained it in a way that I can understand. The reason I do not trust Tom is that his opinions do not match what I have been told by my Instructor last year and by knowledgeable people in this thread. It does not matter to me who is right or wrong, I just want to know which way is correct.
Well, not to sound rude, but I go back to credentials. I'm not sure you'll find anyone more knowledgeable on the subject. When I'm getting conflicting advice/information, I simply evaluate my sources and go with the one that's more likely to have the knowledge to lead me in the right direction. I highly doubt anyone on this forum has a small fraction of the knowledge of clubmaking, design, etc. that Tom has. Not saying we're all stupid here, but Tom is in another realm altogether.
 

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I want to trust Tom because his video explained it in a way that I can understand. The reason I do not trust Tom is that his opinions do not match what I have been told by my Instructor last year and by knowledgeable people in this thread. It does not matter to me who is right or wrong, I just want to know which way is correct.
The answer can be measured.

Adjust the driver. Set it on a lie angle, loft measuring device. See the reading. Then check if you grip the club in that position. If not. Measure the loft, lie angles in the position that you grip the Club.

There is your answer.

I grip the club to have the face open at address. Regardless of the face angle or lie with the driver. Since I tee up the ball pretty high the lie angle on the driver doesn't affect my swing.

When I increase or decrease the loft, I can see the difference in the loft of the club face. For my grip, with Adjustable tipped drivers and shafts. I can honestly also see the change in launch and spin. Higher or lower trajectory based on 1 degrees of loft adjustment.

Hopefully this will help

:drinks:
 

Johan185

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Not to leave out any further confusion. The painted lofts on a driver are notoriously inaccurate. Plus or minus 2 degrees.

So your 9.0 degree driver delotfed to 8.0 degrees might actually be playing at 9.5 degrees of loft. Which is why we have a wrench included with every purchase. :facepalm::drinks:
 

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Honestly I don't try to understand it - I just hit different heads and try different settings until I get the ballflight I want. I know that the different settings do have a meaningful impact on my shots, despite what they may or may not be doing to loft/lie. I don't try and manipulate my swing/grip/address when I'm testing.
 

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