What are your thoughts on using AI in the golf world?

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So, when Callaway introduced the Flash face AI (Artificial Intelligence) constructed driver, the question becomes would using AI become the next wave of technology growth in golf, Callaway specific, or is this idea a novelty?

The talk in the Grandaddy thread had me thinking about all the possible uses of how AI could help golfers, but would the cost be practical or become too high for anything more then a driver face? Could a golf ball use AI to manipulate the proper dimple construct to help golf balls stay in the air longer? Could AI be used on iron faces? What other ways could using AI improve golf?

But mostly, I wonder how using AI could or will change golf. Or, would using AI be more of a selling idea like 2019 is to ball speed?
 
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baylrballa

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adaptive shafts that compensate for variation in swing path/head rotation from swing to swing in real time.
 

Awstyn

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"Just try, try, try. Then try again." - Ely Callaway

That about sums up how I think AI can help the companies mission. Flash Face appears to be a good start. If AI is a novelty or improves golf, and how it will be used is still in trial far as I know.
I have no clue as to what information and how simulations are done. I do not have strong thoughts on where this is going, however, I'm glad it is being tried.

It could be insane.
 

fuffle master

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I think it will make for great marketing.

Other than that, I know nothing of what it will be used for. Computing things more quickly than what is normal?
This year Callaway used AI to build the exact face of their Epic Flash Driver. This new AI constructed face is designed to change the thickness differently then standard. This is setup to optimize all ball strikes on the face and produce even higher ball speeds.

Here was the article in Forbes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/scottkramer/2019/01/11/callaway-taps-a-i-to-make-new-epic-flash-driver/amp/

I believe Callaway had some heads turning during the PGA Merchandising Show this year based on the use of AI in the driver face.


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DG_1234

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So, when Callaway introduced the Flash face AI constructed driver, the question becomes would using AI become the next wave of technology growth in golf, Callaway specific, or is this idea a novelty?

The talk in the Grandaddy thread had me thinking about all the possible uses of how AI could help golfers, but would the cost be practical or become too high for anything more then a driver face? Could a golf ball use AI to manipulate the proper dimple construct to help golf balls stay in the air longer? Could AI be used on iron faces? What other ways could using AI improve golf?

But mostly, I wonder how using AI could or will change golf. Or, would using AI be more of a selling idea like 2019 is to ball speed?
What does "AI" mean ?
 

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I think one of the biggest benefits of AI in the golf world may not be the new or unique designs that AI can come up but the validation through multiple iterations. What was it, 15,000 simulations to come up with and validate the Flash face? It would take years to duplicate that using traditional product development.


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I think one of the biggest benefits of AI in the golf world may not be the new or unique designs that AI can come up but the validation through multiple iterations. What was it, 15,000 simulations to come up with and validate the Flash face? It would take years to duplicate that using traditional product development.


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And the more interesting thing to me will be how will Flash 2.0 be able to improve from what AI did this year? Run it 30000x for 2.0?



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I think the big advantage is the ability to try lots of things and go way outside the box. Most have seen the images of the Flash face and it just doesn’t look like anything we’ve seen before. It’s something someone would have gotten to eventually I think, ML just got us there more quickly.

In short I don’t see it going away anytime soon, but I don’t think it’s going to be something that changes the landscape of how the game is played.
 

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I gotta think we see AI incorporated in irons next year from Callaway at least and would be surprised if another company or two didn’t try to incorporate AI face technology as well.

I guess it really depends on how sales versus the costs have faired for Callaway. I am sure some on here actually know the numbers. Those numbers will be a determining factor in how other companies and Callaway invest in AI technology.


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fuffle master

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Once AI evolves into ASI, look out!
Once the computer develops ASI, will Skynet hit a hole in one on every shot or just kill all of us? We need golf to stick around after the computers take over the world.


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Sean

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Once the computer develops ASI, will Skynet hit a hole in one on every shot or just kill all of us? We need golf to stick around after the computers take over the world.


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No doubt both, lol.
 

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I gotta think we see AI incorporated in irons next year from Callaway at least and would be surprised if another company or two didn’t try to incorporate AI face technology as well.

I guess it really depends on how sales versus the costs have faired for Callaway. I am sure some on here actually know the numbers. Those numbers will be a determining factor in how other companies and Callaway invest in AI technology.


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What other investments would Callaway need to make in AI? They already purchased the $5 million super computer required to perform such tasks, I’d imagine the only other investment/cost would be headcount-related with regards to engineers needed to develop simulation parameters.


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fuffle master

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What other investments would Callaway need to make in AI? They already purchased the $5 million super computer required to perform such tasks, I’d imagine the only other investment/cost would be headcount-related with regards to engineers needed to develop simulation parameters.


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There would be A LOT more into the costs than just the super computer. I would say the hard and soft costs to fully bring the product from R and D to consumer is much higher. Besides the additional engineering and software coding, you would need additional legal, additional prototype testing (due to the changing face for each club from the standard norm), additional feasibility studies, design planning, and many other factors while still using AI in its beginning stages of golf manufacturing. Eventually, like many costs, some of these items will decrease. However, since the technology is so new you have much higher costs involved that you would not have if you remove the AI concept from the manufacturing procedures.


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There would be A LOT more into the costs than just the super computer. I would say the hard and soft costs to fully bring the product from R and D to consumer is much higher. Besides the additional engineering and software coding, you would need additional legal, additional prototype testing (due to the changing face for each club from the standard norm), additional feasibility studies, design planning, and many other factors while still using AI in its beginning stages of golf manufacturing. Eventually, like many costs, some of these items will decrease. However, since the technology is so new you have much higher costs involved that you would not have if you remove the AI concept from the manufacturing procedures.


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Would they not incur those type of costs using the traditional club-development techniques that other OEMs use and what they used prior to going the AI route? Wouldn’t prototype testing be cheaper than the historic approach as it is mostly being completely artificially now?


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fuffle master

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Would they not incur those type of costs using the traditional club-development techniques that other OEMs use and what they used prior to going the AI route? Wouldn’t prototype testing be cheaper than the historic approach as it is mostly being completely artificially now?


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Absolutely, would have similar costs. Just since the technology is new and moving from just a wood would have additional costs. Sure, if they did change anything and went with the same product if Epic Flash next year, then the additional cost would be minimal.

Trying the new technology into other products, some successful and others maybe not yet would incur additional costs.


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AI is the wave of the future and it’s not going away. I think it will be used in the development of all hard goods.
 

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AI or not there are limits on what the manufacturers can currently do in regards to what is and is not conforming, I just don't see there being much actual improvement in tech for quite a while. That's not to say that adjusability, and being able to get fit better for a club can't happen.
 

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AI or not there are limits on what the manufacturers can currently do in regards to what is and is not conforming, I just don't see there being much actual improvement in tech for quite a while. That's not to say that adjusability, and being able to get fit better for a club can't happen.
The same thing has been said for the 11 years of THP Existence yet we continue to see major strides.
We even saw a change in actual testing from COR to CT, which yet again changed what could be done.

And when we move past drivers, which is what most focus on, the materials and manufacturing of irons has seen such staggering improvements in forgiveness. From hollow body irons with proper CG, to weight shifting capabilities by using heavier materials such as tungsten more commonly to actual irons that are merely a shell to create weight in only certain spots.

We are far from done in evolving process of design and each year we continue to see strides.
 

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The same thing has been said for the 11 years of THP Existence yet we continue to see major strides.
We even saw a change in actual testing from COR to CT, which yet again changed what could be done.

And when we move past drivers, which is what most focus on, the materials and manufacturing of irons has seen such staggering improvements in forgiveness. From hollow body irons with proper CG, to weight shifting capabilities by using heavier materials such as tungsten more commonly to actual irons that are merely a shell to create weight in only certain spots.

We are far from done in evolving process of design and each year we continue to see strides.
Totally get that designs still may have a way to go and the process in coming up with said designs may change, but I haven't seen a big jump in driver performance for 4-5 years, for me that is. I think the new drivers make it easier to get fit into something that may work for you but if you are already maxed out with 4-5 year old gear then that's it.
 

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Totally get that designs still may have a way to go and the process in coming up with said designs may change, but I haven't seen a big jump in driver performance for 4-5 years, for me that is. I think the new drivers make it easier to get fit into something that may work for you but if you are already maxed out with 4-5 year old gear then that's it.
Why would someone be maxed out?
The only Max that currently exists is CT. Yet as we demonstrated in the THP Feature yesterday, speed at center impact is merely one aspect of distance. Distance is a combination of a number of things, with speed only being one of those numbers. While ball speed is still the king of those perimeters, it is still only one aspect. And I say this speaking only to drivers, where people seem to focus.

Yet in the last few years, there is zero doubt that technology has assisted more distance with both spin design and aerodynamics. Now heading down the path is CT and how its measured, here is equipment expert Michael Vrska explaining that.


That leaves so many other ways products can get better is impact locations for golfers are all different. Its why we struggle so much with the idea of telling someone Ball ABC is fastest, when that is only one part of the equation for distance (goes back to our feature yesterday on low compression helping a golfer). Just as telling someone Driver ABC is fastest, because that could be merely a product of length and weight.

AI or no AI, there are still many areas of development that exist. We have seen irons come so far in terms of distance and forgiveness without any sacrifice in size. A great example of that is hollow body, and frankly its only the beginning on those designs. The future is so bright in weight manipulation across the board as golfers embrace the new technologies that allow engineers to shave here, add here, etc. Here is another great video with one of the smartest men in golf, Mike Yagley, talking with @ddec about driver design and how it compares to his time designing aircrafts with Boeing.

 

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i think ai will definitely become the norm and impact all product lines, including soft goods.

the ability to work through so many more iterations in a rapid fashion will lead to better performance. i think the tech can be furthered by ongoing testing of real world golfers to better understand swing faults, as well as continuing to improve the software.

i really feel we are in the golden age of equipment designs. and i’m very grateful for companies who are willing to take these chances for the benefit of average joes like we are.


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alexped2393

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Why would someone be maxed out?
The only Max that currently exists is CT. Yet as we demonstrated in the THP Feature yesterday, speed at center impact is merely one aspect of distance. Distance is a combination of a number of things, with speed only being one of those numbers. While ball speed is still the king of those perimeters, it is still only one aspect. And I say this speaking only to drivers, where people seem to focus.

Yet in the last few years, there is zero doubt that technology has assisted more distance with both spin design and aerodynamics. Now heading down the path is CT and how its measured, here is equipment expert Michael Vrska explaining that.


That leaves so many other ways products can get better is impact locations for golfers are all different. Its why we struggle so much with the idea of telling someone Ball ABC is fastest, when that is only one part of the equation for distance (goes back to our feature yesterday on low compression helping a golfer). Just as telling someone Driver ABC is fastest, because that could be merely a product of length and weight.

AI or no AI, there are still many areas of development that exist. We have seen irons come so far in terms of distance and forgiveness without any sacrifice in size. A great example of that is hollow body, and frankly its only the beginning on those designs. The future is so bright in weight manipulation across the board as golfers embrace the new technologies that allow engineers to shave here, add here, etc. Here is another great video with one of the smartest men in golf, Mike Yagley, talking with @ddec about driver design and how it compares to his time designing aircrafts with Boeing.

I'll give the videos a watch tonight :), my views are only really from what I see when I go for a driver fitting. I haven't seen anything beat my X2 hot for me
 

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