What is DJ's Ceiling?

[Canadan]

I genuinely feel like he has buttoned up a lot over the years because of all the negative publicity he has gotten. From the rumors about his early years on Tour to basically everyone calling him dumb. It has probably made him extremely self conscious about what he shares. He is just a human being after all. I thought his interview with Amanda Baliones after getting his jacket said it all. He couldn't speak literally. I understand he has created some of this bad press on himself, but there is nothing he can do about his nature and whether people think he is intelligent. I said it before too, he was ultra classy in not responding to the low blow that Koepka laid on him at the PGA. That right there dropped Koepka even lower down my list and raised DJ way up on mine. I am very happy for him right now and I hope he gets the chance to slam the door on a Koepka green jacket one of these years.

I never really got the sense that he was self conscious about what he shared, I got a sense that he just wasn't interested in that part of the process... and it's weird because normally I'm the kind of guy urgently seeking for things to latch onto from a post-round player perspective.. But it's never really been that way for me watching DJ - More like that sort of acceptance that he's not all that inclined to go out of his way to be present publicly, but he's a decent guy who loves his kids and the game. Strangely, that's been enough for me.

 

[Paladin]

Let's not forget it tools Mickelson until he was 35 to win his 2nd major.

Pebble Beach was horrible. Ok first time in the leaders position....we've seen plenty crash and burn in that spot.

Whistling...some people still say he was screwed there...but he did make that late charge to get in to the playoff(before being removed).

Chambers he hit two of the best shots of the tournament, and it came down to his weakest part of the game at the time and it just didn't work out. He got a touch unlucky where that ball stopped on the 2nd shot...but man he shouldn't have 3 jacked.

Got outplayed by Koepka at Shinnecock over the final 36 holes after playing great the first 36 holes.

My question is...when does the question stop?Can you believe he only has x majors? I mean can we look at Rory and say that? He hasn't won one in 6+ years.

I don't think that question will ever go away. There's a weird thing about golf, where someone's near misses early in their career seem to be worse than someone being very successful early on and then having that success go away, where it doesn't seem to shift the 'what might have been' lens. Rory, Jordan, like Seve and others who played a won a great deal before changing their swing, or changing their mindset, and having it go away, they'll always to get to be seen as winners who can get back to it at any time if they could just relax and play golf.

DJ has the opposite problem. I don't think his near-misses haunt him anymore or that they ever did, but people will perceive the idea that he should have started winning majors much sooner.

 

[ddec]

the one thing I think DJ has going for him is an upward trend in parts of his game that were major weaknesses in years past... So at least we're talking about more than just "oh it's the same golfer he's just playing well" it's more like "his work on the short game and a return to a familiar putter made all the difference here" which I think is critical.

I'm certainly not an apologist for his results in the past, but I'm also not talking knee jerk in this thread as I've been lauding DJ for some time hahaha... I've even got podcast proof after his last win in September.

I'm with you. I've been a DJ guy for quite some time. His game is cool to watch. Esp because of how he transformed his wedges from a weakness to a strength. Only difference is my podcast proof on it goes back to June 2016 haha

The man takes his lumps and just moves on, at least publicly. It's so different than some others. I love it.

 

[Canadan]

Im not necessarily either, but in this instance, him winning one is genuinely causing a lot of feelings of even more dominance (he is certainly dominant).
The question I have, is with that said dominance, why only two? One could say hot golfer, but BAD last major wasn't hot going into the event according to many on THP. Jordan Spieth couldn't have been just "hot" during that epic run of majors, right?

How can a guy with this much skill only have "gotten hot" twice? Maybe just thinking out loud a bit.

The two is a letdown, for me at least.. Even if a couple of them have been painfully close.. But like others have mentioned, Phil has had a hell of a career and was on a relatively similar Major trajectory at this time.

What I find interesting about DJ is the consistent wins year over year (2019 excluded) over the last 4-5. It's not like he got hot for a time and then fell off the face of the earth (Spieth), he's proven that relevancy has staying power by comparison to some.

BAD is a tough example for me because I'm definitely in the opposite camp of most of his 'haters' out there haha - Bryson is going to have to prove to me that he's not here to stay before I buy that argument from golf twitter.

 

[camden_kid]

Question - which player(s) will prevent him winning majors?

 

[JB]

The two is a letdown, for me at least.. Even if a couple of them have been painfully close.. But like others have mentioned, Phil has had a hell of a career and was on a relatively similar Major trajectory at this time.

What I find interesting about DJ is the consistent wins year over year (2019 excluded) over the last 4-5. It's not like he got hot for a time and then fell off the face of the earth (Spieth), he's proven that relevancy has staying power by comparison to some.

BAD is a tough example for me because I'm definitely in the opposite camp of most of his 'haters' out there haha - Bryson is going to have to prove to me that he's not here to stay before I buy that argument from golf twitter.

I agree with the Phil sentiment. For a decade plus it was he is the best to never win one. He is Dan Marino. He doesn't have the killer instinct. I think if he had only 1 or 2, the same sentiment would be there. I think people forget he was the "loser" before social media.

I think DJ is an all world talent and have said when he is at his absolute best, he is the best to ever play. Sometimes will plays a role too, and the best ever in any sport usually have a "losing is not an option mentality" and with DJ, many don't get a sense of that. Be it his personal demons or failing a few close calls, etc.

 

[DataDude]

I never really got the sense that he was self conscious about what he shared, I got a sense that he just wasn't interested in that part of the process... and it's weird because normally I'm the kind of guy urgently seeking for things to latch onto from a post-round player perspective.. But it's never really been that way for me watching DJ - More like that sort of acceptance that he's not all that inclined to go out of his way to be present publicly, but he's a decent guy who loves his kids and the game. Strangely, that's been enough for me.

I just see it in his body language. How he looks at the ground sometime when he speaks. How he kind of waits for others to take the lead.

 

[Canadan]

I just see it in his body language. How he looks at the ground sometime when he speaks. How he kind of waits for others to take the lead.

I hadn't really looked at it like that. Interesting.

 

[DataDude]

I hadn't really looked at it like that. Interesting.

It's really hard to imagine that a guy as wildly successful as him who seemingly has it would be self conscious. It's definitely not something you would assume that's for sure.

 

[Northerner]

If we're going purely on age, Phil has about three more wins on DJ by the time he wrapped up 36.

While I can appreciate the idea that Phil is a wizard in some aspects of the game, I would have a really hard time accepting the idea that he has more talent (raw or golf) than DJ and I don't think it's particularly close.

Would be curious to know why you think that.

Golf talent? I take Phil over DJ. Phil is already top-10 all time in the game in my view. DJ comes from a family of great athletes so I am not saying he's not a great athlete at all, but golf skill? I think Phil is a better talent.

How many runners-up does DJ have in majors? Phil's 6 at probably the hardest challenge in the game alone boggles my mind. I know 2nds don't count for anything really, but in my view they are evidence of great golfers putting themselves in positions to win the big ones. Phil has as many runners-up in the hardest tournament in the game as Tiger has 2nds in all majors in his entire career.


Again, I know 2nd place doesn't count, but to me it's evidence of a player who was always right there and their game generally solid thruoghout.


DJ...great talent but I can't see him adding more than 1 or 2 majors to his resume. Not saying he's not a fantastic player, there are just so many young great players these days I think he will be hard pressed to get much more done at already age 36.

 

[Canadan]

Golf talent? I take Phil over DJ. Phil is already top-10 all time in the game in my view. DJ comes from a family of great athletes so I am not saying he's not a great athlete at all, but golf skill? I think Phil is a better talent.

How many runners-up does DJ have in majors? Phil's 6 at probably the hardest challenge in the game alone boggles my mind. I know 2nds don't count for anything really, but in my view they are evidence of great golfers putting themselves in positions to win the big ones. Phil has as many runners-up in the hardest tournament in the game as Tiger has 2nds in all majors in his entire career.

Again, I know 2nd place doesn't count, but to me it's evidence of a player who was always right there and their game generally solid thruoghout.

DJ...great talent but I can't see him putting more than 1 or 2 majors to his resume.

25% of his Majors, he's finished in the top 5... Slightly better than Phil lifetime.
44% of the time in the top 10.. Notably better than Phil lifetime.
11% of the time in the top 2.. Slightly better than Phil lifetime.

Tough apples to apples considering Phil hasn't been relevant in a Major since his 2nd place finish in 2016..

 

[golfinnut]

about 6'4"

 

[Chef23]

I could easily see 3-5 majors and 35-40 wins if he stays motivated. I don't know if DJ has the love for the game that Phil has. If DJ wins a couple of more majors in the next 3 or 4 years I could definitely see him shutting things down and not chasing wins.

 

[Reframmellator]

The man takes his lumps and just moves on, at least publicly. It's so different than some others. I love it.

^^^So much this.

 

[JB]

25% of his Majors, he's finished in the top 5... Slightly better than Phil lifetime.
44% of the time in the top 10.. Notably better than Phil lifetime.
11% of the time in the top 2.. Slightly better than Phil lifetime.

Tough apples to apples considering Phil hasn't been relevant in a Major since his 2nd place finish in 2016..

Thats a tough comparison, you are right, but it's hard to say majors are not your only barometer and then use majors, but leave out the victory part.
I believe Phil has 5 major wins.
Nearly 50 victories

DJ is certainly on pace to get there, assuming this trend continues, but he isn't there yet, right?

 

[Canadan]

Thats a tough comparison, you are right, but it's hard to say majors are not your only barometer and then use majors, but leave out the victory part.
I believe Phil has 5 major wins.
Nearly 50 victories

DJ is certainly on pace to get there, assuming this trend continues, but he isn't there yet, right?

Northerner asked about Majors by comparison so I ran the numbers, just FYI. I wasn't using them solely as a comparison.

 

[Northerner]

25% of his Majors, he's finished in the top 5... Slightly better than Phil lifetime.
44% of the time in the top 10.. Notably better than Phil lifetime.
11% of the time in the top 2.. Slightly better than Phil lifetime.

Tough apples to apples considering Phil hasn't been relevant in a Major since his 2nd place finish in 2016..

So since at the same age, Phil had 3, and DJ now has 2....what is your projection on DJ?

Specificially majors. How many more major victories do you think he gets before its said and done?

 

[Tywithay]

I just see it in his body language. How he looks at the ground sometime when he speaks. How he kind of waits for others to take the lead.

I've noticed that as well and always assumed in the back of my mind that he was on the autism spectrum, maybe aspergers. Then again, I see Kawhi Leonard, or Bill Belichick, and figure some guys just hate talking on camera. Never really thought of it as a self-conscious thing though.

 

[Acesteve]

I think how many wins and how many majors will start to be evident in the next 5 events in 2021. If he comes out on fire the ceiling will be high but he is at such a high place right now it remains to be seen if he can sustain the energy. I'd almost forgotten how hot he was in 2017 when he had the accident. What I saw in the last 4 months from DJ was just next level stuff.

 

[Canadan]

So since at the same age, Phil had 3, and DJ now has 2....what is your projection on DJ?

Specificially majors. How many more major victories do you think he gets before its said and done?

Why specifically Majors? Is that your primary determinant of a players talent? I don't feel the same way, but I'll indulge with stats;

During the last two years, he's finished either second or first in five of the seven available Majors. It is reasonable to assume that if he continues on this trajectory, he'll have an opportunity to win many more as long as his health and regimen remain the same.

Wins wise? I think it's totally realistic to anticipate 3-4 wins or more for the next 5-6 years. That's his output since 2016 (outside of 2019).

 

[ddec]

Why specifically Majors? Is that your primary determinant of a players talent? I don't feel the same way, but I'll indulge with stats;

During the last two years, he's finished either second or first in five of the seven available Majors. It is reasonable to assume that if he continues on this trajectory, he'll have an opportunity to win many more as long as his health and regimen remain the same.

Wins wise? I think it's totally realistic to anticipate 3-4 wins or more for the next 5-6 years. That's his output since 2016 (outside of 2019).

yeah I don't see him slowing down in the next few years.
Can we add that the guy has won the 2nd most WGC events, 2nd to Tiger. He's won all 4 of them throughout his career. Those are big boy tournaments and he's done well in them.

I think its safe to say he's got Augusta somewhat figured out. Even before the -20, his previous 4 starts the worst he's done is T10. And we all think he would have been right up there in 2017 when he fell on that Weds night. At the beginning of last week 3 of the next 6 majors were going to be at Augusta.

 

[Northerner]

Why specifically Majors? Is that your primary determinant of a players talent? I don't feel the same way, but I'll indulge with stats;

During the last two years, he's finished either second or first in five of the seven available Majors. It is reasonable to assume that if he continues on this trajectory, he'll have an opportunity to win many more as long as his health and regimen remain the same.

Wins wise? I think it's totally realistic to anticipate 3-4 wins or more for the next 5-6 years. That's his output since 2016 (outside of 2019).

Many of the great players of the game have made it clear that their goal was to win majors. Tiger has made that clear. I believe Jack made that clear. Many other players have made it clear that their goal was to win majors first and foremost.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

I think he will end up in the realm of 40 wins and 5 majors, possibly more. I hope he remains committed to getting better and being number 1 because it's been really fun watching him play at this level, and I would like someone to claim and maintain the mantel of best golfer in the world for an extended period. I think DJ has the all around game and temperament to make that happen.

I didn't watch much golf when Rory was winning his majors, but what DJ did on Sunday and has been doing lately felt surgical, kind of how it felt when Tiger was dominant. I'm not saying he's Tiger or is going to win as many as Tiger, but like Tiger at his best, he was in control, had a game plan, stuck to it, and was rock solid.

There are a lot of comparisons to Phil, but there was an erratic side to Phil's game that DJ does not have.

The way he drove the ball this week was incredible and he made the short putts he have given him trouble in the past.

 

[jdtox]

I think he absolutely gets the Grand Slam. Now that the Masters is out of the way he is only getting more confident in my opinion. If Taylor Made ever lets him go they are insane barring some crazy personal stuff or something. Plus....if the putting gets better and better look out.

 

[Raiderboost]

I'm in agreement with @Canadan that when DJ's game is all there he is clearly the best in the field. I don't think there is another player that can keep up with him and go low for a tournament. It's just pure enjoyment to watch.