What is the primary reason for slow play?

[rollin]

As far as agreeing on what constitutes "slow play", I'd say it's a relative thing and I couldn't put an exact time on it for every course under every condition. If you're a fast player, you'll know it's slow - you'll feel it. I can say that on my home course with my usual group, we can play 18 in right around 3:00 (give or take a few minutes) if there's nobody in our way ahead of us. 3:30 is a slowish round, anything 4:00 or more is agonizing, especially in the summer.

The ones who don't care are the ones who, whether they think they're a slow player or not, can easily look behind them and see that there are people waiting to hit, or groups stacking up behind them, and don't do anything about it. Either pick up the pace or let people play through, but those are the people who say "I paid my money, I'll take as long as I want". If the course is backed up ahead of them there's nothing they can do about it, but if there are open holes ahead of them they're screwing up everybody else's day with their selfish and/or oblivious attitudes. It's not rocket science to take a look ahead of you and behind you once in a while and see if you're holding your proper place on the course.

But there is some issue with your ideologies here. You do mention that its relative and no exact time to place on it. So then if thats the case, how can anyone truly imply just what is wrong (or not). I feel nothing wrong with 4 at all while you feel its agonizing. So what does a 4some do who takes 4 to play and has groups of 4somes waiting behind? Why should that group allow perhapss 4 or 5 sets of 4somes you say are stacking up to play through simply because they want to play in 330 or less? Its one thing to suggest they let a group through but if there are several 330 type 4somes stacked up behind the 4hr group then how are they going to allow all the groups to play through without then severly delaying thier own round?

Lets play the scenario.
That 4hr group may not wish to play 430 cause thats aggravating to them yet by your notion they should allow all the several 330 groups to pay through therefore causing them to play 430 instead of 4 just because 4 or 5 groups want to play in 330. Think for the moment.....just who exactly is any more correct? .Doesnt that group have a right to play in 4 without being delayed to 430? Wouldnt the fast330 groups be just as guilty of delaying the 4hr group as they themselves feel the 4 hr group is doing to them?

So your group and 4 more groups want to play in 330. But the 4hr group is in front. So that group must let all 5 groups play through and end up with a 430 round. Isnt that just as wrong? You want to play faster so therefore they must get delayed?

Im just presenting an honest question based on your post. Ive personally never seen a 4hr group with 4somes stacked up behind them like they are an enormous issue. I can play in 330 with a 4some and done it plenty if thats what the pace is but I do feel thats fast. Id rather not wish my round away. Imo it gets to a point where it feels more like work then an enjoyment. I dnt like slow rounds as much as anyone. But if im in a 4some playing 4hrs and there are 5 groups of 330 4somes behind stacking up (which ive never ever ever seen in 35 years of golf) Im not going to sit while 5 groups play through and cause me a 430 round. Just where does the right and wrong fall?

 

[ntanygd760]

The 4 hour group needs to let a group go by in that spot. They should all hit their tee balls then let the group through. Now everyone goes up to their balls. Once the green clears they are in position behind the group with minimal time wastage. All they have to do is keep up with group after that

 

[5150]

In my humble opinion it boils down to a simple truth:

Most people don’t like to wait. At all. For anything.

3 hours, 4 hours, 5 hours, I’ve played rounds of all lengths, as many of you have, and generally speaking, people get impatient if they feel they have to wait to hit a shot at all, ever, regardless of the overall pace of the round.

It strikes me as odd that so many of the people I play golf seem very excited to play, then once we get out there, it seems like they can’t wait to be done with it.

 

[rollin]

But there is some issue with your ideologies here. You do mention that its relative and no exact time to place on it. So then if thats the case, how can anyone truly imply just what is wrong (or not). I feel nothing wrong with 4 at all while you feel its agonizing. So what does a 4some do who takes 4 to play and has groups of 4somes waiting behind? Why should that group allow perhapss 4 or 5 sets of 4somes you say are stacking up to play through simply because they want to play in 330 or less? Its one thing to suggest they let a group through but if there are several 330 type 4somes stacked up behind the 4hr group then how are they going to allow all the groups to play through without then severly delaying thier own round?

Lets play the scenario.
That 4hr group may not wish to play 430 cause thats aggravating to them yet by your notion they should allow all the several 330 groups to pay through therefore causing them to play 430 instead of 4 just because 4 or 5 groups want to play in 330. Think for the moment.....just who exactly is any more correct? .Doesnt that group have a right to play in 4 without being delayed to 430? Wouldnt the fast330 groups be just as guilty of delaying the 4hr group as they themselves feel the 4 hr group is doing to them?

So your group and 4 more groups want to play in 330. But the 4hr group is in front. So that group must let all 5 groups play through and end up with a 430 round. Isnt that just as wrong? You want to play faster so therefore they must get delayed?

Im just presenting an honest question based on your post. Ive personally never seen a 4hr group with 4somes stacked up behind them like they are an enormous issue. I can play in 330 with a 4some and done it plenty if thats what the pace is but I do feel thats fast. Id rather not wish my round away. Imo it gets to a point where it feels more like work then an enjoyment. I dnt like slow rounds as much as anyone. But if im in a 4some playing 4hrs and there are 5 groups of 330 4somes behind stacking up (which ive never ever ever seen in 35 years of golf) Im not going to sit while 5 groups play through and cause me a 430 round. Just where does the right and wrong fall?

The 4 hour group needs to let a group go by in that spot. They should all hit their tee balls then let the group through. Now everyone goes up to their balls. Once the green clears they are in position behind the group with minimal time wastage. All they have to do is keep up with group after that

But where is it so correct (or not) that they must keep with the 330 group afterwards? I do feel (to a degree) people do have a right to play in a reasonable time frame without the pressures of fast groups who somehow decided reasonable is no longer tolerated.

Whatever reasonable is,....is most always (in conversation and notions) unofficially set by fast groups and players. Its always somehow a magical courtesy that faster groups are (via some noble gesture) allowing the given tolerable time frame to the groups who are not fast even if they are not at all a slow play issue.
Im going to go out on a limb here and assume if we pooled thousands of random weekend worriers we would find majority feel that 330 (for a 4some) is quick and not as enjoyable as a 4 hr round.

If a bunch of groups head out and expect to play in 330 and expect to play through anyone in their way i feel that ideology is a bit flawed. I certainly would have no issue if i were in a 4 hr group and your group plays in 330 and you want to go through. But if you had 4, 5 groups of 330 paced 4somes? Sorry but imo its not so correct that my group would have to allow all those play-throughs. On contrary to what some might suggest , i just never ever seen such an issue like that arise anyway. In all my years(decades even) of golf Ive never once seen a 4 hr group cause a stacked back up. Imo something like that would be an over exaggeration or at very least an anomaly.

And that too (the over exaggerations) are also a big part of the golf pace issue. What i mean is that while the slow play problem is certainly a real thing, the talk, the anticipation, and the exaggerations all hype things up much more than they already really are. I mean the conversations of pace so often even begin on or before the very first darn tee. People start complaining and the darn round hasnt even begun. Then if they see a couple bad tee shots from the group on the first tee? forget about it. The comments really fly......"they are on the wrong tees"(like as if they would have hit great balls from a different tee), or "this is going to be slow", or "oh man we are in for it", etc,etc... they get themselves all worked up about pace and they've yet to hit a darn ball.

 

[5150]

And that too (the over exaggerations) are also a big part of the golf pace issue. What i mean is that while the slow play problem is certainly a real thing, the talk, the anticipation, and the exaggerations all hype things up much more than they already really are. I mean the conversations of pace so often even begin on or before the very first darn tee. People start complaining and the darn round hasnt even begun. Then if they see a couple bad tee shots from the group on the first tee? forget about it. The comments really fly......"they are on the wrong tees"(like as if they would have hit great balls from a different tee), or "this is going to be slow", or "oh man we are in for it", etc,etc... they get themselves all worked up about pace and they've yet to hit a darn ball.

Agreed… it boils down to patience, self control and the ability to not spend much or any mental energy on stuff I can’t do anything about.

All I can do is be ready when it’s my turn and choose to enjoy the day instead of let slow(er) players live rent free in my head. No use fretting about it. Won’t help anyway.

I've caught myself more than once blaming my own poor play on others… “I just can’t get a rhythm with this slow group ahead of us,” etc.

It’s a convenient out for me to peg my poor shots on the pace of another player or group, but in the end I’m just deferring the blame away from my own lack of patience and self control. The productive thing for me to do is to learn how to deal with it and play well anyway; not to stand there and complain.

 

[ntanygd760]

All being under the stated pace of play for the course gets you is not being forced to skip a hole when you are way behind. Just let the group going faster pass you but do it in an optimal way as to waste very very little of your time.

 

[Bosco...]

It strikes me as odd that so many of the people I play golf seem very excited to play, then once we get out they, it seems like they can’t wait to be done with it.

This, in a nutshell.

Pace of play has never been an issue for me. 3, 4, 5, whatever. It’s golf. Have fun. Life is short.

I’ve got bigger fish to fry.

 

[5150]

This, in a nutshell.

Pace of play has never been an issue for me. 3, 4, 5, whatever. It’s golf. Have fun. Life is short.

I’ve got bigger fish to fry.

Right?

A little patience goes a long way.

Frankly I think I am more annoyed by players in my group who get pissed off and impatient than I am by slow play ahead of me. That sort of attitude is contagious and doesn't lead to good golf (or a good time). I don't need Jim and Bob standing there spewing obscenities about the beginners in front of us. It's like yelling at traffic. What's the point?

I try hard to stay positive, come up with a little chipping game on the tee, whatever we can do to pass the time.

 

[tahoebum]

D’oh I knew I’d miss a point in the poll! Welp I tried. I generally avoid the 8 minute tee time interval courses around here. Pace is usually poor at all of them.

Our private course has 9 minute intervals and on a stacked tee sheet day like today(men’s day) we will almost always finish in 3:40 or less as a walking foursome.

I think the main reason for slow play is not being ready when it’s your turn and too much time taken on the greens.

 

[ArmyGolf]

In my humble opinion it boils down to a simple truth:

Most people don’t like to wait. At all. For anything.

3 hours, 4 hours, 5 hours, I’ve played rounds of all lengths, as many of you have, and generally speaking, people get impatient if they feel they have to wait to hit a shot at all, ever, regardless of the overall pace of the round.

It strikes me as odd that so many of the people I play golf seem very excited to play, then once we get out there, it seems like they can’t wait to be done with it.

Some truth here, but I think its less about wanting to be done, and more about hating to wait.

 

[OneFootShort]

I think people forget how to act on a golf course, on both sides. I wish they'd put something up that says "treat the golf course like a highway, if someone is moving faster than you, let them pass". Even if the recommended pace is 4 hours and 10 min, if you are on that pace, but the group behind you is waiting on you every shot, and you're not waiting on the group in front of you, you should let them play through. Just because the speed limit is 65, people do go faster, and people let them pass. You don't do 65 in the left lane without expecting to let someone by.

edit: sorry for the run-on sentence.

 

[DaBuckBoys]

I think people forget how to act on a golf course, on both sides. I wish they'd put something up that says "treat the golf course like a highway, if someone is moving faster than you, let them pass". Even if the recommended pace is 4 hours and 10 min, if you are on that pace, but the group behind you is waiting on you every shot, and you're not waiting on the group in front of you, you should let them play through. Just because the speed limit is 65, people do go faster, and people let them pass. You don't do 65 in the left lane without expecting to let someone by.

edit: sorry for the run-on sentence.

Except there is only one lane, so you are required to pull off and stop to let someone pass...

 

[TheDoctor]

No matter how fast someone plays, there will always be someone else who wants to play even faster, so in their eyes, you are slow

Unfortunately, I don't ever see complaints about slow play disappearing - even if everyone ran round a course in 90 minutes, there would always be someone who wants to do it in 60 minutes

 

[OneFootShort]

Except there is only one lane, so you are required to pull off and stop to let someone pass...

Good point.

 

[Daddio]

There are more expeditious ways to to let a faster group through which costs the slower group much less time than simply stopping somewhere and waiting 8-12 minutes too. But biggest cause IMO is that faster players instinctively and purposely do a lot of little things faster to be in position and ready to play ASAP. They don't diddle around on or near the green either. Slower players are just the opposite. Most of them don't even realize it. Worse still if they do realize it and slow down deliberately. Sadly it's becoming more common every year: The "F those those A-holes pushing us" stance. Even if they're not really pushing - usually they're just being courteous to the group behind them and hitting up as soon as it's safe to do so.

 

[chile]

after playing with some slower players this past weekend, i stand by my statement that people just don't care.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

After some severe hacking this weekend, I’d like to change my answer to golf is f@$&ing hard!

 

[ntanygd760]

Sometimes slow groups need to be pushed. So many times some sill group says hey are fin since the group behind isn't waiting. In reality they are just not standing there with their hands on their hips club in hand waiting to hit, but they are still very much waiting on the slow group.

 

[chile]

After some severe hacking this weekend, I’d like to change my answer to golf is f@$&ing hard!

that is very true. and i think it contributes to people wanting to hit the shot they love before moving on...

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

that is very true. and i think it contributes to people wanting to hit the shot they love before moving on...

I see how it is. You just had to bring that up… Look, we were playing a team competition and posting the scores to the forum. It’s not my fault I had to drop twice and hit 3 balls from the same spot! Besides we were right on the group in front of us and there was nowhere to go in front of them!

But yea I hate to break it to Mr. checks the wind and shoots the pin between all 6 practice swings, but you didn’t hit the green from 320 the first time after hitting a 200 yard drive. It’s not going to happen the second or third or even fourth time you try.

 

[chile]

I see how it is. You just had to bring that up… Look, we were playing a team competition and posting the scores to the forum. It’s not my fault I had to drop twice and hit 3 balls from the same spot! Besides we were right on the group in front of us and there was nowhere to go in front of them!

But yea I hate to break it to Mr. checks the wind and shoots the pin between all 6 practice swings, but you didn’t hit the green from 320 the first time after hitting a 200 yard drive. It’s not going to happen the second or third or even fourth time you try.

i won't lie, i took a couple of extra shots (but played my original ones) at their behest ...but they took quite a few, even after i said we should probably get going.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

i won't lie, i took a couple of extra shots (but played my original ones) at their behest ...but they took quite a few, even after i said we should probably get going.

That kills me inside! If it’s open in front that is. If not then I don’t mind so much, but is it too much to ask to be aware of pace and the groups around? That’s what really gets me.

 

[Greg Kulbick]

Had a new one Sunday, It was very very slow. Our first group out of 8 teed off at 11:50. The second group called the clubhouse from the second tee because of how backed up it was. There were often times two and sometimes three groups waiting on a tee box. We could see who the problem was, it was a group of people two spots ahead of our first group. When we saw the marshal on the turn, he said he was working on it and trying to speed the group up. They had been spoken to multiple times by multiple people. He said he couldn't throw them off the course because they'd call the mayor, who would call the city manager, who would call the course manager, who would call him and he doesn't want that hassle. It was pointed out to him that he's worrying about four people who may never be back, but not our group that brings the course over four thousand rounds a year. While we were on the back, I saw another common site, four twosomes in a row. All in all, it was five hours on a course that shouldn't take more than 3:45 when its crowded.

 

[5150]

Some truth here, but I think its less about wanting to be done, and more about hating to wait.

Well said; I agree. I alluded to that concept in a previous post in the thread... the idea that "ideal pace of play" isn't really about 3 or 4 or 5 hours, it's about "I never want to wait."

That said, I do think that culturally here in the US, we tend to be very task oriented and task driven, and often folks see a round of golf as something to be completed rather than something to be enjoyed.

As a career project manager (23 years now), I can certainly understand that approach, haha.

Personally I view golf - all of it, practice, a friendly round, a competitive round, the 19th hole, all of it - as a respite from that. Something to be enjoyed, not another box to check.

I do enough herding cats and managing timelines at work. I don't really want to deal with all that at the club.

That said, before anyone comes with pitchforks and torches saying I'm a slow play guy... I will be ready when it's my turn, you won't be waiting on me to hit, I can assure you of that.

 

[Lefty Moonshot]

Great thread to read through if you want to get frustrated about playing while not actually playing lol