What legendary putter would you want to own?

[JB]

It's not the higher sulfer content, it's the slightly higher carbon content that makes it softer. Scotty marketing does it the best, definitely. But when you look at Piretti, or Byron Morgan or some of the other companies using GSS, they're still in the $1500+ range while their standard SC or 303 ss models are quite a bit less expensive.

I’m confused by this. I was taught, when looking in generalities, the lower the carbon content, the softer the steel, like iron. @PhillyV can probably help, i am sure I am missing something.

 

[PhillyV]

I’m confused by this. I was taught, when looking in generalities, the lower the carbon content, the softer the steel, like iron. @PhillyV can probably help, i am sure I am missing something.

For the most part, yes. The lower the carbon, the softer the steel depending on the cooling and reapplication. The opposite for sulfur. The higher the sulfur the softer the steel.

But again, a lot of the feel can come from properly reheating the steel before forging.

 

[kevin81002]

I’m confused by this. I was taught, when looking in generalities, the lower the carbon content, the softer the steel, like iron. @PhillyV can probably help, i am sure I am missing something.

Stainless steel in any grade is harder than carbon steel. Anyone that's ever machined both can tell you that. The higher carbon content in CS allows you to heat treat it to make it extremely hard. But in it's raw state, 303ss is a harder material, and can't be heat treated.

The statement below is from an interview with a putter company a few years ago. I found this article last year when I was looking in to different materials to machine my own putter.

From a molecular standpoint only, the German stainless we use has a slightly, I'm talking minute, amount higher carbon content. The feedback from our customers that have tried both regular 303 stainless prototypes and our German stainless versions of identical models, have preferred the German stainless almost hands down. In reference to the feel spectrum we discussed earlier, most players place the German stainless models about 3/4 of the way towards the regular stainless end, while representing the best of both materials. Now, that may be the placebo effect at the highest level or not. What we do know is the disparity of cost between the two stainless offerings is not that dramatic, so we choose to use German stainless with all of our stainless steel models. We feel like this gives our players the option of trying a material that has been deemed unattainable for the general masses prior to us offering this option.

 

[JB]

For the most part, yes. The lower the carbon, the softer the steel depending on the cooling and reapplication. The opposite for sulfur. The higher the sulfur the softer the steel.

But again, a lot of the feel can come from properly reheating the steel before forging.

Thank you sir.

 

[JB]

Stainless steel in any grade is harder than carbon steel.

I do not agree with this at all. In fact a simple google search says the opposite when speaking in generalities.

EDIT: When Cobra released their Stainless wedges, this was spoken about in our THP TV spot with their R&D, I am trying to find the video now.

 

[kevin81002]

I do not agree with this at all. In fact a simple google search says the opposite across the board.

lol... put both in a lathe and take a cut. Then tell me which one is the tougher material. You can argue what Google says all day. Reality is carbon steel isn't that tough, or hard until it's gone through a heat treat or forging process.

 

[JB]

lol... put both in a lathe and take a cut. Then tell me which one is the tougher material. You can argue what Google says all day. Reality is carbon steel isn't that tough, or hard until it's gone through a heat treat or forging process.

Thats why I went to both @PhillyV who works in steel and a club manufacturer to support the google answer.
If you think otherwise, that’s fine.

Here is a good article with info and there are many others to help those that want to read along.

Carbon Steel vs Stainless Steel

How do carbon steel and stainless steel compare? In this blog post we analyze carbon steel vs stainless steel for metal 3D printing.

markforged.com

 

[kevin81002]

Thats why I went to both @PhillyV who works in steel and a club manufacturer to support the google answer.
If you think otherwise, that’s fine.

As someone who's been machining for almost 30 years, yeah I disagree. But, agree to disagree.

Thats why I went to both @PhillyV who works in steel and a club manufacturer to support the google answer.
If you think otherwise, that’s fine.

From your own article...

Compared to low-carbon steel, stainless steel offers a massive upgrade in strength, hardness, and most importantly corrosion resistance.

 

[kevin81002]

Deleted the link... now that's funny.

You should probably delete the rest of the conversation as well considering it's pretty far off topic from the original post.

 

[JB]

Deleted the link... now that's funny.

You should probably delete the rest of the conversation as well considering it's pretty far off topic from the original post.

Deleted the link... now that's funny.

You should probably delete the rest of the conversation as well considering it's pretty far off topic from the original post.

What? Nothing was deleted.
Bur you’re right about funny...

 

[Templet0n]

It's not the higher sulfer content, it's the slightly higher carbon content that makes it softer. Scotty marketing does it the best, definitely. But when you look at Piretti, or Byron Morgan or some of the other companies using GSS, they're still in the $1500+ range while their standard SC or 303 ss models are quite a bit less expensive.

I believe and will have to confirm GSS has a lower carbon content carbon is added to metals to create hardness. (this is coming from being a knife guy). The higher the carbon content the harder the metal. GSS has a lower carbon content, that is why the steel is softer and more malleable. The price has more to do with the volume that Scotty can move vs these other smaller companies.

 

[kevin81002]

What? Nothing was deleted.
Bur you’re right about funny...

Sorry. I left work and it was there. The whole way home (2hrs worth of traffic,) it wasn't. And when I looked once I got home it was there again. Might have been an issue with my phone. So if it was on my end, I apologize.

 

[kevin81002]

I believe and will have to confirm GSS has a lower carbon content carbon is added to metals to create hardness. (this is coming from being a knife guy). The higher the carbon content the harder the metal. GSS has a lower carbon content, that is why the steel is softer and more malleable. The price has more to do with the volume that Scotty can move vs these other smaller companies.

I don't know much about knife making other than what I've seen on TV, but it looks like fun! Correct me if I'm wrong though.... you guys aren't using 300 series stainless for knives are you? You can't heat treat it. It just become brittle and cracks like crazy if you try to temper it. I always assumed it was some sort of 400 series stainless for knives, or one of the newer superblend metals. I'm pretty sure we're not comparing the same type of GSS here. but if you wanna send me some samples, I have a Niton gun.

I understand the whole more carbon equals harder deal. That equation works for carbon steel, and partially for SS. But there are other additives (chromium and nickel) that give stainless its durability, hardness and corrosion resistance. Where I got the carbon comment from was an interview with a putter manufacturer where they said basically that their 303 GSS from a metallurgy standpoint was identical to the american version of 303ss, but had a fractionally higher, almost negligibly higher amount of carbon. What it didn't say was what the rest of the specs were on it. I'll see if I can find that link again.

I work in a field where I've had the opportunity to play with some pretty interesting types of metal. Everything from standard 1020 carbon steel, to every grade of SS, 4130, 4140, 2 1/4cr, 12cr, Hastaloy, Refractaloy, Stellite, Incoloy 901, Inconel 625, B16, etc etc. I'm by no means a metallurgist and I'm sure I'll be wrong alot when it comes to the actual metal composition. But after 30 years of actually putting tool to steel, you tend to pick up a thing or two.

 

[Templet0n]

I don't know much about knife making other than what I've seen on TV, but it looks like fun! Correct me if I'm wrong though.... you guys aren't using 300 series stainless for knives are you? You can't heat treat it. It just become brittle and cracks like crazy if you try to temper it. I always assumed it was some sort of 400 series stainless for knives, or one of the newer superblend metals. I'm pretty sure we're not comparing the same type of GSS here. but if you wanna send me some samples, I have a Niton gun.

I understand the whole more carbon equals harder deal. That equation works for carbon steel, and partially for SS. But there are other additives (chromium and nickel) that give stainless its durability, hardness and corrosion resistance. Where I got the carbon comment from was an interview with a putter manufacturer where they said basically that their 303 GSS from a metallurgy standpoint was identical to the american version of 303ss, but had a fractionally higher, almost negligibly higher amount of carbon. What it didn't say was what the rest of the specs were on it. I'll see if I can find that link again.

I work in a field where I've had the opportunity to play with some pretty interesting types of metal. Everything from standard 1020 carbon steel, to every grade of SS, 4130, 4140, 2 1/4cr, 12cr, Hastaloy, Refractaloy, Stellite, Incoloy 901, Inconel 615, B16, etc etc. I'm by no means a metallurgist and I'm sure I'll be wrong alot when it comes to the actual metal composition. But after 30 years of actually putting tool to steel, you tend to pick up a thing or two.

That could all be true. I am not 100% sure. The knife guy comment was not to mean that I make them (although I have thought about it) I just like them, and shop knives and in doing so read some about the metals that are used. Sorry if I was not clear about that. You will not be seeing me on forged in fire any time soon. But I do love that show. Haha.

I am not trying to argue with you or say I know more. I am just discussing, and running down a rabbit hole.

 

[kevin81002]

That could all be true. I am not 100% sure. The knife guy comment was not to mean that I make them (although I have thought about it) I just like them, and shop knives and in doing so read some about the metals that are used. Sorry if I was not clear about that. You will not be seeing me on forged in fire any time soon. But I do love that show. Haha.

I am not trying to argue with you or say I know more. I am just discussing, and running down a rabbit hole.

Nah it's all good man. I enjoy a good healthy discussion.

 

[Templet0n]

Nah it's all good man. I enjoy a good healthy discussion.

Good deal, in the end I think the GSS is really just good marketing and it is is what Tiger used. So that is what created the value more so than the other way around.

 

[Paladin]

I'd want Billy Casper's Biltmore mallet putter.

 

[tequila4kapp]

Ben Hogan's putter from when he won the Grand Slam in '53!

Me too.

 

[pattyboy21]

You're correct, it was a Cobra putter, but not the same shape as the Anser. The design was actually a take-off of the Ping Zing. The Cobra Greg Norman U Model was CNC-machined from carbon steel. A great feeling putter indeed! ??

I found one on eBay and bought it yesterday! I'm going to have @Space Bandito restore and customize it; I can't wait to have the whole project done!

 

[BishopBreaks80]

It's not the higher sulfer content, it's the slightly higher carbon content that makes it softer. Scotty marketing does it the best, definitely. But when you look at Piretti, or Byron Morgan or some of the other companies using GSS, they're still in the $1500+ range while their standard SC or 303 ss models are quite a bit less expensive.

I had understood that there was a relatively significant difference between German Stainless and 303 Stainless Steel. Rose and Fire had a nice article explaining the differences in feel, and I personally agree with their information; I found the 1095 Carbon to be very soft, 303 Stainless to be quite firm, and GSS being somewhere in between:

Putter Materials: What's the Difference? Guest Blog! - Rose & Fire

By Kyle Sears of Kingston Putters We often get asked what the major differences are between our carbon steel and stainless...

www.roseandfire.com

-Bishop

 

[kevin81002]

I had understood that there was a relatively significant difference between German Stainless and 303 Stainless Steel. Rose and Fire had a nice article explaining the differences in feel, and I personally agree with their information; I found the 1095 Carbon to be very soft, 303 Stainless to be quite firm, and GSS being somewhere in between:

Putter Materials: What's the Difference? Guest Blog! - Rose & Fire

By Kyle Sears of Kingston Putters We often get asked what the major differences are between our carbon steel and stainless...

www.roseandfire.com

-Bishop

That's the article I was referring to.

I honestly can't tell a whole lot of difference between any of them in the same head style and head weight. I was at a friend's house Friday night checking out his putter collection and rolled a scotty 009M in cs, sss and gss... they all felt pretty much the same to me.

 

[KEV]

I found one on eBay and bought it yesterday! I'm going to have @Space Bandito restore and customize it; I can't wait to have the whole project done!

Oh man, I didn't need to see this. I have a slight fetish for this putter shape. Time to go to eBay.

 

[pattyboy21]

Oh man, I didn't need to see this. I have a slight fetish for this putter shape. Time to go to eBay.

They had at least one more when I was looking - I just learned mine was shipped today and I can't wait to get back to Houston for 2 weeks to check it out! I'm also looking forward to having it restored and customized!

Also, I do like what Loren Roberts visualized when putting: he liked to pretend he had a pencil lead on the bottom of his putter and he would visualize drawing a straight line back and then through during his stroke.