What should the penalty be for slow play?

[jdtox]

Lots of talk about slow play recently, people see it on tv and it has made its way our local courses. It's something that is always talked about but never enforced.

How do you enforce something like this and what do you think the penalty should be that will get people to take notice?

 

[wubears71]

Disqualification!

 

[MWard]

Murd..... Wait.

Loss of Fedex cup points. I know that sounds really stupid in the scheme of things, but money doesn't do anything to affect these guys. Potentially losing your status though? That'll wake people up real fast.

 

[McLovin]

on tour, i think there should be a marshal every 3 holes starting with the first group. there should be a predetermined pace, and as soon as one group fails to make it to the checkpoint on time, they get a warning. if they don't make up the time by the next checkpoint, each loses a stroke. these guys will start keeping each other accountable when one guy's pace takes money out of another guy's pocket. but there has to be some kind of measure to prevent docking one group's pace if it resulted from the issue with the group(s) in front.

for the rest of us, kind of the same thing, but with money. make everyone leave a cc on file at the pro shop. put 4 marshals at 4 tee boxes as checkpoints. each time the group fails to reach the checkpoint within the prescribed time, they get charged an additional 25% of the round fee. fail it all 4 times and you've basically doubled the cost of your round. again, there needs to be something in place to protect the groups who get slowed down by group(s) in front.

 

[Sox_Fan]

If more than a hole opens up ahead, I think a penalty should be assessed for not keeping up pace of play. I would say 1 stroke for the first offense during a round and 2 strokes if the same issue occurs within that round. The tough part to me is who to assess it to. I don't think it is fair to penalize the whole group for the slow play of one particular individual. To me, that is where it gets sticky.

 

[ddec]

Murd..... Wait.

Loss of Fedex cup points. I know that sounds really stupid in the scheme of things, but money doesn't do anything to affect these guys. Potentially losing your status though? That'll wake people up real fast.

I think that allows players who have plenty of status to ignore the rule. Granted these guys mostly ignore the rule anyways.

 

[Canadan]

Well, the first aspect of this is actually enforcing it... which I think they do a terrible job of accomplishing.

Second is adding strokes to scores. First is a warning on the clock. Second is adding strokes to score. After the third stroke is added in same tournament, DQ.

 

[jdtox]

for the rest of us, kind of the same thing, but with money. make everyone leave a cc on file at the pro shop. put 4 marshals at 4 tee boxes as checkpoints. each time the group fails to reach the checkpoint within the prescribed time, they get charged an additional 25% of the round fee. fail it all 4 times and you've basically doubled the cost of your round. again, there needs to be something in place to protect the groups who get slowed down by group(s) in front.

This is interesting. I don't think it could work courses likely wont hire additional marshals to do this, heck I rarely see marshals on course as is let alone 4 during the same round. However what if the course offered some sort of refund or something for completing in a timely manner. Probably wouldn't work either I guess because some wont care but I find it interesting.

 

[JB]

Well, the first aspect of this is actually enforcing it... which I think they do a terrible job of accomplishing.

Second is adding strokes to scores. First is a warning on the clock. Second is adding strokes to score. After the third stroke is added in same tournament, DQ.

Could you imagine the outcry if Tiger Woods or another fan favorite is in the final group on Sunday and gets a stroke added to lose a major? I can hear it now "But nobody is behind them".
I have said for a while that FedEx Cup points is the one of the few ways to appease fans and still make players speed up. Its sad, but they run the asylum at this point.
To me its no different than any other rule.

 

[Canadan]

Could you imagine the outcry if Tiger Woods or another fan favorite is in the final group on Sunday and gets a stroke added to lose a major? I can hear it now "But nobody is behind them".
I have said for a while that FedEx Cup points is the one of the few ways to appease fans and still make players speed up. Its sad, but they run the asylum at this point.
To me its no different than any other rule.

I would celebrate it aggressively.

So would Brooks hahaha

 

[mikeg_74]

I would put these guys on a clock, not the crap they do now, but a real clock. If they continue to play slow then add strokes to the current hole they are playing. After that it’s a DQ and see you next week.

 

[MWard]

I think that allows players who have plenty of status to ignore the rule. Granted these guys mostly ignore the rule anyways.

Maybe, maybe not? If I have status but a slow play penalty or two throughout the year somehow takes me out of the majors the following year cause I didn't crack top 30? That'd piss me off pretty good.

 

[JB]

Maybe, maybe not? If I have status but a slow play penalty or two throughout the year somehow takes me out of the majors the following year cause I didn't crack top 30? That'd piss me off pretty good.

Let's use Tiger Woods as an example. How does this impact him at all? That is the barometer right now, because of his status. I am 100% behind the FedEx Cup side of penalty and have said so for a number of years, but in this case, it does absolutely nothing, right?

 

[ddec]

Maybe, maybe not? If I have status but a slow play penalty or two throughout the year somehow takes me out of the majors the following year cause I didn't crack top 30? That'd piss me off pretty good.

If I was a slow golfer, that could miss out on automatic major qualification because of a penalty, I would justify it to myself by saying if I play at my slower pace, I have a better chance to finish high enough in more tournaments and qualify based on my rising world rankings, or by getting a win. So I don't think FedEx Cup points do enough in that matter. Hit them with strokes which will impact their finishes, world ranking, and fedex cup points.

Let's use Tiger Woods as an example. How does this impact him at all? That is the barometer right now, because of his status. I am 100% behind the FedEx Cup side of penalty and have said so for a number of years, but in this case, it does absolutely nothing, right?

Yup those who have a permanent tour status like TW/Phil/DJ it would have pretty much no impact.
Guys like Spieth and Jason Day, I would also venture to guess that the loss of FedEx Cup points would have no impact.

 

[aljaklaw]

death.

 

[MWard]

Let's use Tiger Woods as an example. How does this impact him at all? That is the barometer right now, because of his status. I am 100% behind the FedEx Cup side of penalty and have said so for a number of years, but in this case, it does absolutely nothing, right?

Tough argument to make then, because nothing will effect the guys at the top. They know the tour won't hit them with stroke penalties, because they wouldn't want the backlash of someone winning without actually earning it. The offending player will argue all day that it's not them, it was the situation they were in that caused it. Had to wait on a ruling, fell asleep during someone's preshot routine, had to wait for gallery to clear, etc. I know I'd argue it blue in the face if I felt I was given a bad time because it took me 90 seconds to hit a shot, but 60 seconds of it was waiting for stuff around me to get out of the way.

 

[Leftyuk]

First offence, remove right testicle, if another offence occurs......:shock: unlikely.

 

[ArmyGolf]

The penalty needs to be immediate and it needs to be strokes. 2 ways to do it IMO:

1) Individual shot clock. Clock starts when you or your caddy get to your ball for the first player. Clock starts as soon as the previous player's ball lands for the next players. Exceed the limit, 1 stroke. Do it twice, 2 strokes. Again? DQ. In conjunction with this rule, I'd like to see range finders allowed during Tournament play.

2) Group timer. You have 15m to replace the flag stick starting from when the previous group replaced the flag stick. 1st offense is a verbal warning. 2nd offence is 1 stroke to each player in the group.

 

[CBaker]

on tour, i think there should be a marshal every 3 holes starting with the first group. there should be a predetermined pace, and as soon as one group fails to make it to the checkpoint on time, they get a warning. if they don't make up the time by the next checkpoint, each loses a stroke. these guys will start keeping each other accountable when one guy's pace takes money out of another guy's pocket. but there has to be some kind of measure to prevent docking one group's pace if it resulted from the issue with the group(s) in front.

How fast would JB Holmes be murdered? I’m not sure you can dock the entire group because of one guy. When JB and Brooks were playing, brooks is literally at his ball ready to hit every time. To dock brooks if JB is plumb bobbing tee shots isn’t a great precedent. Pretty sure someone like Brooks is already trying to hold people accountable.

I like the strokes idea. But feel it should be on an individual basis on almost a shot clock type deal.

 

[McLovin]

This is interesting. I don't think it could work courses likely wont hire additional marshals to do this, heck I rarely see marshals on course as is let alone 4 during the same round. However what if the course offered some sort of refund or something for completing in a timely manner. Probably wouldn't work either I guess because some wont care but I find it interesting.

in my area, the marshals are paid next to nothing. they are typically retired older men who are mostly incentivized by free rounds and range balls. hit a couple people with the fee, and you've paid for half a day's wages.

golfers would flip their sh1t if they got charged it, and unfortunately might cause more headache for the course if the charge gets disputed. but i don't see any way to police it other than a financial impact.

 

[McLovin]

How fast would JB Holmes be murdered? I’m not sure you can dock the entire group because of one guy. When JB and Brooks were playing, brooks is literally at his ball ready to hit every time. To dock brooks if JB is plumb bobbing tee shots isn’t a great precedent. Pretty sure someone like Brooks is already trying to hold people accountable.

I like the strokes idea. But feel it should be on an individual basis on almost a shot clock type deal.

and that can happen if you have a walking marshal with every group. but in my scenario with marshals at checkpoints, there is no way to know WHY the group is slow, only THAT the group is slow. maybe my idea would work for thursday and friday, but then put walking marshals with some groups after the cut.

ultimately mikeg's idea is the best. a shot clock going for every group, running for every shot. a warning for the first violation, then a stroke added for each additional violation.

 

[JB]

How fast would JB Holmes be murdered? I’m not sure you can dock the entire group because of one guy. When JB and Brooks were playing, brooks is literally at his ball ready to hit every time. To dock brooks if JB is plumb bobbing tee shots isn’t a great precedent. Pretty sure someone like Brooks is already trying to hold people accountable.

I like the strokes idea. But feel it should be on an individual basis on almost a shot clock type deal.

Actually, it probably fixes the tour the fastest than just penalizing the individual player, because the minute a player starts taking money out of another player's pocket, **** gets real.
JB gets the brunt of it, he earned it, but there are plenty that are fan favorites that are as slow that get a pass. Hell, Tiger and Phil are both slow as ****, but nobody says a thing. Spieth, Day, etc. Don't get me started on the LPGA, where there is an entire generation of players that are flat out cheating. Pace is part of the rules and sadly the video showed earlier is just one caught on TV, because it happens at every LPGA event, every week.

 

[CBaker]

Actually, it probably fixes the tour the fastest than just penalizing the individual player, because the minute a player starts taking money out of another player's pocket, **** gets real.
JB gets the brunt of it, he earned it, but there are plenty that are fan favorites that are as slow that get a pass. Hell, Tiger and Phil are both slow as ****, but nobody says a thing. Spieth, Day, etc. Don't get me started on the LPGA, where there is an entire generation of players that are flat out cheating. Pace is part of the rules and sadly the video showed earlier is just one caught on TV, because it happens at every LPGA event, every week.

I don’t disagree that a lot of fan favorites are also slow. The JB and Brooks group from the Open is just a recent example. But I guess it’s true that if you penalize the whole group you’d get things moving faster. I just don’t see it going well on tour and in the eyes of viewers

 

[clarkgriswold]

What should the penalty be for slow play?

How hard would it be to add a shot clock on top of the little score keeper sign that walks around the course? Just track it initially so everyone can see it, then when it’s visible to all people will realize how long it takes. That said there would need to be significant training involved on when the clock is on/off. But imagine seeing a round total of JB Holmes vs Koepka. Round time of say 4 hours. But individual shot time would be massively swayed onto JB.

 

[jdtox]

I don’t disagree that a lot of fan favorites are also slow. The JB and Brooks group from the Open is just a recent example. But I guess it’s true that if you penalize the whole group you’d get things moving faster. I just don’t see it going well on tour and in the eyes of viewers

Yeah I can't see penalizing the whole group. Could you imagine Brooks getting penalized for JB's slowness?

I do think it has to be player specific and I think a 2 stroke penalty could go a long way to making the players speed it up BUT it has to be enforced. Plus who deems how much time is enough or too slow?