What to trust? (Launch monitors)

[thepete]

I did a ball fitting yesterday with Bridgestone. It went very well, since I found out that a) HEX Black which I'm gaming is optimal for me and b) it was kinda funny to see the rep try to come up with a Bridgestone ball that would be a better fit.

Anyways, one thing stood out: the numbers on the launch monitor. I've done tests with Flightscope, Trackman and now Science Eye (never heard of before). With the Flightscope at TaylorMade last fall, my SS was around 108-109. This spring, I did tests at Callaway and got 104, maxed out at 106. This seemed pretty low to me, not to mention disheartening after spending a winter bulking up and grooving my swing for more power. And then yesterday with Science Eye, I averaged 116 (!?).

I don't believe my SS goes up and down like that, nor that it has changed that much over the course of 18 months. I hit the ball a bit longer this year than last, that's true, but it's not that big of a difference. This just put some doubt in my mind as to what to trust when I do testing - to me it seems like the numbers are all over the board depending on the LM.

 

[Richard Rodgers]

Morning bud.

Without exception, different LMs have the potential to give wildly different numbers simply due to the way that they work and how they can be set up.

At the end of the day, the numbers are just numbers. You do not need to know that your SS is 109.0876mph as it does not matter so long as the LM is being used as a tool to see the effect different club settings have on the numbers.

When I have my specs checked I only take notice of what is happening on that particular day.

If however, you stick to only using one fitter and LM the numbers will be more consistent, but you still do not know whether if it shows 110mph it is not 104 or 115.

Don't get hung up on the numbers. Use it as a means to an end.

 

[dustin8538]

I consider myself a serious golfer and I take these numbers serious to an extent, but I say dont worry about the numbers. Play what feels right and what seems to be working for you on the course. We all get on the LM's and never swing like we do on the course (at least I dont) so I just use these as some rough guidelines. I say just hit the range put in some good practice from all aspects of the game. Take it to the course and trust your swing. The only numbers I really concern myself with are my lie angles. I like to hit on the lie board from time to time and make sure my lie angle is correct. 1 degree off in either direction can be up to 4 yards of right to left. 9 out of 10 golfers will have the wrong lie angle and be losing strokes everywhere. Hope this helps

 

[Kmod]

Last time I used a launch monitor it was saying I was hitting a 4 iron 215yds+. In real life however, 200yds is about the limit of how far I can hit mine.

 

[Tadashi70]

What is the variance between launch monitors? I can't believe they are that far off from one another.

 

[the_paulo]

What is the variance between launch monitors? I can't believe they are that far off from one another.

I'd hazard a guess that the variance can be quite large, depending on whether you're shopping for equipment or getting fit/practising at a reputable establishment.

 

[JB]

Last time I used a launch monitor it was saying I was hitting a 4 iron 215yds+. In real life however, 200yds is about the limit of how far I can hit mine.

I'd hazard a guess that the variance can be quite large, depending on whether you're shopping for equipment or getting fit/practising at a reputable establishment.

Lets remember that launch monitors and simulators are not exactly the same thing, despite what stores would have you believe.

 

[the_paulo]

Lets remember that launch monitors and simulators are not exactly the same thing, despite what stores would have you believe.

Yah, of course I was messing. Hopefully nobody is swinging on a simulator in store and using these numbers to apply to their game.

Do most (if not all) portable launch monitors measure the same way? ie at the same points in flight? Haven't had a lot of experience outside of Trackman, so just wondering out loud.

 

[JB]

Yah, of course I was messing. Hopefully nobody is swinging on a simulator in store and using these numbers to apply to their game.

Do most (if not all) portable launch monitors measure the same way? ie at the same points in flight? Haven't had a lot of experience outside of Trackman, so just wondering out loud.

To be fair, some simulators I have found extremely accurate. In fact I think aboutGolf is as close to accurate as most things I have seen when we have tested it. Yes. In theory, most capture info at the critical point of ball flight (the impact zone).

 

[ddec]

To be fair, some simulators I have found extremely accurate. In fact I think aboutGolf is as close to accurate as most things I have seen when we have tested it. Yes. In theory, most capture info at the critical point of ball flight (the impact zone).

My sim league over the winter was done in an aboutGolf sim. I found them to be pretty accurate when it came to distances for the most part.

 

[TrueFX]

My sim league over the winter was done in an aboutGolf sim. I found them to be pretty accurate when it came to distances for the most part.

The have these???

You guys must be hardcore diehards. Do you putt on them?

 

[golfdawg]

I had a similar issue last week working with the Zelocity at Golf Galaxy, the numbers I got do not really match up to real world on course numbers. I did use what I could figure out to compare the 5 or 6 drivers at that time hoping at least how they related to each other in that moment would give me an idea. On Avg. RBZ gave me the better numbers, but the Cleveland Classic gave me the best single Drive over all, and since i love the look, sound, feel and Balance of the Classic over the RBZ, that is my next purchase.

 

[niwotian]

I have a Foresight GC2 launch monitor with the simulation software. I find the ball flight to be very reliable and to correlate well with real-world observations (aside from the fact that the GC2 doesn't account for altitude, while I play at about 5500 ft elevation). There is a setting that allows you to boost distance, so you can configure the system to lie to you if you want. I believe some Golfsmith stores use GC2s, so if you don't believe the distances you're seeing I'd check the 'Shot Distance Boost' setting. Also, there's a clubfitting mode that shows club head speed - the GC2 measures ball speed and spin, but I'm pretty sure it has no way of measuring club head speed. In looking over my results, it looks like it computes a club head speed based on an assumed smash factor (looks like something in the 1.45-1.46 range).

 

[thepete]

I'm not worried about being fit poorly - I can gauge those things pretty well and I know when something isn't working from a material point of view. I don't go onto the course thinking about my SS or spinrate or whatever. I wonder how two (three?) major LM manufacturers can gauge something as seemingly basic as SS so differently. I mean, let's be frank: I haven't effing gained 12mph in SS since May. Granted Callaway would love that, I swapped to the Razr Fit Driver and gained 12mph in SS, but let's be real here...

I do wonder if this couldn't lead people into being poorly fit though. You see a SS that doesn't correspond with what's actually happening.

I'd hazard a guess that the variance can be quite large, depending on whether you're shopping for equipment or getting fit/practising at a reputable establishment. ​

TaylorMade's Performance Lab and Callaway's equivalent are pretty reputable I'd wager. Plenty of ET players go there to get fit. Also Bridgestone would have no reason to 'juice' their numbers when doing ballfittings.​

I say just hit the range put in some good practice from all aspects of the game. Take it to the course and trust your swing. The only numbers I really concern myself with are my lie angles. I like to hit on the lie board from time to time and make sure my lie angle is correct. 1 degree off in either direction can be up to 4 yards of right to left. 9 out of 10 golfers will have the wrong lie angle and be losing strokes everywhere.

Uh, thanks...?

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

To be fair, some simulators I have found extremely accurate. In fact I think aboutGolf is as close to accurate as most things I have seen when we have tested it. Yes. In theory, most capture info at the critical point of ball flight (the impact zone).

I did a fitting with Bridgestone a few months ago and was wondering what your thoughts are (anybody else feel free to chime in) on the accuracy of the Science Eye Monitor they use for their fitting. I have no idea what the difference is between all the technology. The SS numbers I got were a little bit higher than I was getting on whatever the PGA SS uses. It wasn't a huge difference; I'm just curious as to which one you would find to be more accurate.

 

[Ryan Loves Golf]

I had my swing measured on the Bridgestone monitor and a Trackman on the same day at the same range couple months ago and the numbers were very close. Swing speed difference of less than 2mph, so I had no issue believing the ball fitting results....

 

[InHartWeTrust]

Uh, thanks...?

lol, thought the same thing when I was reading that.

I only trust LM's, and I also semi-trust the major OEM's performance stations. However, as you did with the ball fitting, I always compare against my current set up when looking for comparative data. As far as variations in SS go, I agree that it isn't likely you will see large spikes and drops, however, I could easily see a few MPH variance from day-to-day.

 

[Renren89]

I would always bring my club into the golftown simulators to test against the one I'm considering and it's always seemed extremely accurate. Not sure what model they have but they don't seem to juice it up at all. When I was looking at hybrids I was hitting the 18* about 200-205 yards each time on the sim and that's pretty much exactly what I get on the course with it. Plus they don't make your bad shots look good. I've hit some nasty slices on that thing

 

[Reframmellator]

I experienced something this week that gave me pause. This variation seemed to be quite excessive, and I'd be interested in how many of you have seen something like this.

I've been playing in a sim league for a few years and I've found the results for the SportsCoach units to be pretty close to what I experience on the course, with the exception of the sim lies always being perfect.

Based on that, I thought I'd look at some new drivers on the GG simulator this week. My current driver is a Ping G15, 9.5 degrees, TPC stiff shaft. My swing speed is typically 96-102 mph and my typical sim drive carries about 220, up to 240 if I catch it on the screws, with a reported launch angle of about 15 degrees and backspin of around 4,000 rpm. That's week in, week out. I'm a little more scattered on a real course, but the distances are the same.

I wanted to try some forgiving drivers to see what they would do for consistency. I went to our local GG two days ago and hit a Cobra Fly-Z regular stock shaft set to 11 degrees, a Ping G30 SF Tec stiff, and a Ping G regular, both in the 10-10.5 range. My swing speed was always about 92 mph, even when I tried to swing from my heels. I didn't catch spin rates, but they all launched around 11 degrees, and all carried around 230 on good hits (smash factor ~1.4) with minimal roll, which seemed odd. The Fly-Z felt the best, and the results seemed to show it. If the results were to be believed, it changed my normal baby fade to a baby draw, with less dispersion. The launch angle bugged me because a) it was low; and b) every club was 11, despite all the variation in club geometries. So I went home and researched some more.

I went back today to try a Fly-Z with a White Tie shaft, or any higher launching shaft, which they did not have, in either the Fly-Z or the F6. So I hit all of the clubs I hit two days earlier - the exact same physical clubs - and the F6 with the Red Tie stock shaft. My first drive with the F6 went 238; overall, if I had to buy a driver based on how these handled, the F6 would be it, but nothing wowed me enough to trade my G15. But here's the rest of the deal: all of my my swing speeds were between 72 and 75 mph, all of my launch angles were 15 degrees, and all of my good hits were about 100-210 yards. I saw a few backspins, and they were between 2,400 and 3,300 rpm. The only time my driver swing may have been that low was when I tried to play through a bad back. When the guy came around and asked me what I thought of the clubs, I summarized the differences I'd seen, and he said, "Well, that's golf."

Huh? In the words of The Grinder, "Is it?"

A few hours earlier this evening, I was back at my sim league, swinging my G15 at 94-100 mph and carrying a baby fade 220-230, topping out at 240, with a launch angle around 15-16 degrees and a backspin of 4,000-4,500. So I will go to the local golf center this weekend to check out a few more, but this time, I will be hitting balls on a actual range, and when we see something that might work, they will bring over a launch monitor.

I should not be surprised that GG does its fitting on launch monitor located right next to the simulator.

 

[JB]

Hard to tell. What I can say is if you make it out to a THP event we can get you setup on FlightScope outside on the range.